Why ryzen is better than coffe lake

[just_dave]

for futureproofness you wanna avoid B350s and bad X370s which makes only 8 boards sufficient

[paddy-stone]

Just now, cj09beira said:

i meant it as a general what should people do kind of thing  

i am planing to get the ryzen+ version of the 1700

Ahh I see, thought you were trying to advise me, lol

 

Yeah, I'm not sure yet.. for desktops I'm pretty much set for a while unless I need new interconnects upgrades that may become available, or cheaper, such as 10Gbe, mini-SAS and such... actually mini-SAS is what I am really hoping they will put on desktop mobos, especially for mini-itx or m-ATX boards.. they would be very handy for cheaper server builds that could still have many HDDs in a smaller form factor, you could even split the drives into another case altogether and have a separate PSU for them even. It's an idea I've been playing with as I like a nice small desktop sometimes and having the storage be separated can take a LOT of the bulk out of a PC that needs big storage... it could even be used as a desktop/server then easily.

I have a few servers and love them, but I do sometimes think about having a big storage desktop, but without the bulk. I'm trying to justify to myself the NEED for it though, I can and would get by easily with the networked servers, but getting better networked devices becomes expensive easily. So thought about making it slightly better for data access to have a desktop/server for those times when faster access to the data would be beneficial, and not bottlenecked by gigabit ethernet.. it's not that often, but when it is it's annoying as I just want to get on with what I am doing.

 

I'll probably wait and see what happens with the market in a few years time for upgrading this rig. I'll probably have built myself another one by then anyway for some purpose, lol. I may even sell the 1700 and turn this rig into an HTPC with an APU, but hopefully by then they will have some better choices if I decide to do that.

[Princess Luna]

Titles : Ryzen is better than Coffee Lake

OP: Okay, Coffee Lake actually is better than Ryzen HOWEVER! AMD Promises that by the end of 2018 Ryzen2 might tie up with Coffee Lake using the same now 2 years old motherboard!

 

lol

[xsimplyjosh]

49 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

at higher resolutions cpus make almost no difference, we will probably see 4.4-4.5 as golden sample territory for ryzen+ and then higher than that for ryzen 2

Imean i dont see them going beyond 8 core mainstream so quickly for now since it is the jump so they could jus work on getting the clock speed up for now and still be in a relatively powerful position.

[cj09beira]

3 minutes ago, xsimplyjosh said:

Imean i dont see them going beyond 8 core mainstream so quickly for now since it is the jump so they could jus work on getting the clock speed up for now and still be in a relatively powerful position.

they will probably stick with 8 cores for ryzen+ but ryzen 2 will be 12 cores, because it will be on 7nm adn you can have more cores in the same size package, this is almost confirmed as the ryzen 2's epyc processors will be up to 48 cores, divide that by 4 cpu dies in each epyc processor and you get 12 cores per die, we just dont know if its 3 ccxs or 2 ccxs with 6 cores each

[Robert IT]

I think we all are curious what performace will have Ryzen+

 

[gbergeron]

11 minutes ago, Robert IT said:

I think we all are curious what performace will have Ryzen+

 

Not really curious.... its amd.. rofl

 

this post very funny ! Ryzen better than coffee lake lolz

[cj09beira]

14 minutes ago, gbergeron said:

Not really curious.... its amd.. rofl

 

this post very funny ! Ryzen better than coffee lake lolz

the same amd that was beating intel back in 05, and didn't continue to do so because on intels clear monopolistic anti-competition, anti-consumer practices, aka bribing everyone 

[TahoeDust]

For those focused on saving a few hundred dollars a few years down the road, Ryzen is probably a good choice as clearly value is more of a concern than performance.

[gbergeron]

15 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

the same amd that was beating intel back in 05, and didn't continue to do so because on intels clear monopolistic anti-competition, anti-consumer practices, aka bribing everyone 

Ya I had athlon 3200+ was amazing...

 

Never had an AMD since then...

 

Coffee lake is destroying amd right now... and buying a ryzen because you can keep am4 til 2020+ makes no sense at all lol there is nothing to proof that its going to be worth it but its nice from AMD for sure... but when you dominate the market, you choose, that is what intel does, and i dont care because when i buy intel, i can keep it for 5 years+ with no problem so who cares about 2020

[Jon Jon]

I don't see how a processor that has next to zero availability right now and only works with expensive motherboards and requires a 240MM AIO to still have stupid high thermals is "killing" AMD right now.

 

It's weird how the fanboyism just blew down the doors with Coffee Lake, so I guess this space hasn't changed much, even though if it wasn't for AMD, we would have just gotten another "F You" release like we did with the 7700K :).

 

As for the motherboard "oh well you won't get all of these new features" argument...what features have we really seen in the last decade?

 

PCI-E 3.0 has been here for nearly a decade, yet we aren't coming anywhere near maxing out the bandwidth, even with cards at 4K. We are literally at a performance bottleneck, not a bandwidth one.

 

Outside of that, the limiting factor would be PCI-E Lanes, but on Ryzen we have 24 straight from the CPU, with 4 dedicated for NVME M.2 drives!

 

Why in 2-3 years, will anybody need a new motherboard chipset for "features"?

 

What a weird statement, guys.

 

Think about the past, present, and future roadmaps, and really think about what you honestly need or expect here.

 

Unless I am missing something, what's really coming down the pipe to the mainstream where we are going to see vast must-have feature-set changes?

 

I didn't even upgrade from my ivy bridge build from 2012 for "must have" motherboard chipset features, I needed more PCI-E lanes and more cores :).

 

If I could have dropped a better CPU into that build, I would have done so!

[Zeitec]

4 hours ago, Robert IT said:

Yes you dont upgrade very year but who khows what procesor heavy programs or games will apear and if like me you are on a buget pc and you need to upgrade as fast as posible as cheap as posible and as much performance as posible and without changing motherboard saving money

If you want to upgrade a budget PC then get a Z370 motherboard and an 8400/8100 now then get an 8700k later. 

[TahoeDust]

1 hour ago, Jon Jon said:

I don't see how a processor that has next to zero availability right now and only works with expensive motherboards and requires a 240MM AIO to still have stupid high thermals is "killing" AMD right now.

Availability issues are temporary.  Good z370 motherboards are about the same price as x370 motherboards.  Most people don't want to buy "value" motherboards...including yourself.  An Asus Strix z370-F is $5 more than your Asus x370-F.  240mm AIO is not needed...there are already people going 5GHz on air coolers like your NH-D15.

 

Thanks for pokng the bear AMD.

[cj09beira]

43 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

Availability issues are temporary.  Good z370 motherboards are about the same price as x370 motherboards.  Most people don't want to buy "value" motherboards...including yourself.  An Asus Strix z370-F is $5 more than your Asus x370-F.  240mm AIO is not needed...there are already people going 5GHz on air coolers like your NH-D15.

 

Thanks for pokng the bear AMD.

your "temporary" according to amazon means no chips until NOVEMBER, this is the definition of paper launch, so at least for now ryzen will continue to sell more, hopefully by November amd has made enough profit from ryzen and is prepping for ryzen+, although threadripper and epyc will not be affected by this and will continue to sell well.

btw being able to latter upgrade to a better cpu on the same board gives more reasons to not cheap out on the board

[PCisLovePCisLife]

I'm using a Ryzen 5 1600 with X370 Taichi, It's a good build.
and I have no regret when the i5 8400 was annouced, I still rock my Ryzen and waiting for Ryzen 2.

even I bought Ryzen 7,I still have no regret.

Sorry for my noob english

Edited October 11, 2017 by PCisLovePCisLife
Nope

[Jon Jon]

59 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

Availability issues are temporary.  Good z370 motherboards are about the same price as x370 motherboards.  Most people don't want to buy "value" motherboards...including yourself.  An Asus Strix z370-F is $5 more than your Asus x370-F.  240mm AIO is not needed...there are already people going 5GHz on air coolers like your NH-D15.

 

Thanks for pokng the bear AMD.

This still doesn't prove that Intel is "killing" AMD with Coffee Lake, as I am running a higher end Ryzen setup.

 

budget boards are available and work, you won't have that choice until potentially 2018 with Coffee Lake.

 

As for 5ghz with Coffee Lake, if I were to build an 8700K build, I would de-lid and run on water.

 

I am sure the D15 would grant a respectable temperature difference, but I wouldn't want to play around with temps that high, and the perks of having a massive cooler go away when you have temps like that, since then the fans will need to run cranked.

 

I run in the 50s during my regular loads, and that's with a silent fan curve.

[gbergeron]

3 hours ago, Jon Jon said:

I don't see how a processor that has next to zero availability right now and only works with expensive motherboards and requires a 240MM AIO to still have stupid high thermals is "killing" AMD right now.

 

It's weird how the fanboyism just blew down the doors with Coffee Lake, so I guess this space hasn't changed much, even though if it wasn't for AMD, we would have just gotten another "F You" release like we did with the 7700K :).

 

As for the motherboard "oh well you won't get all of these new features" argument...what features have we really seen in the last decade?

 

PCI-E 3.0 has been here for nearly a decade, yet we aren't coming anywhere near maxing out the bandwidth, even with cards at 4K. We are literally at a performance bottleneck, not a bandwidth one.

 

Outside of that, the limiting factor would be PCI-E Lanes, but on Ryzen we have 24 straight from the CPU, with 4 dedicated for NVME M.2 drives!

 

Why in 2-3 years, will anybody need a new motherboard chipset for "features"?

 

What a weird statement, guys.

 

Think about the past, present, and future roadmaps, and really think about what you honestly need or expect here.

 

Unless I am missing something, what's really coming down the pipe to the mainstream where we are going to see vast must-have feature-set changes?

 

I didn't even upgrade from my ivy bridge build from 2012 for "must have" motherboard chipset features, I needed more PCI-E lanes and more cores :).

 

If I could have dropped a better CPU into that build, I would have done so!

AMD fan boy detected.

 

Same F you release as 7700k ? this one change the entire skus... 4 cores i3 and 6 cores i5 etc... are you blind?

 

Also,

 

Only works with expensive boards ?? what ??? stupid thermals ? what ?

 

Lets just put it simple : Coffee lakes performs better than ryzen in mostly everything and especially gaming.

 

I'll just leave this here in case you don't understand words, you surely can watch videos. Cofee lake is literally DESTROYING ryzen in games, its not even close :

 

 

 

So not sure why you talkshit about it, no offense tho, ryzen still great products, they just not even close to cofee lake in gaming

 

And BTW, I think we all expected that....

 

But there will always be some AMD fan boys like in the time of the FX chips that will yell " oh but amd is futur proofing you can upgrade the same chipset stays for years and programmers will use more cores later bla bla bla " AKA won't happen

 

Don't get me wrong, I would pick an AMD if they were better for sure. I like AMD. Wish they could perform better than intel in gaming. That would be a hit to intel's market share. But it's not happening. maybe one day, but for now, theres no reason to buy amd for gaming well I feel like, amd was worth buying just between kaby lake and coffee lake. Now im not sure why u would pick an amd over an intel even if not gaming, maybe budget ? probably..

 

Hope to see ryzen 2 beat intel in gaming, but thats like very unlikely to me

 

[TahoeDust]

2 hours ago, cj09beira said:

your "temporary" according to amazon means no chips until NOVEMBER, this is the definition of paper launch, so at least for now ryzen will continue to sell more, hopefully by November amd has made enough profit from ryzen and is prepping for ryzen+

Nah.  Most people have enough self discipline to wait 3-4 weeks for a better product.  I hope Ryzen+ does rival/surpass Coffee Lake.  It will push intel to counterpunch much like they have here.

 

[MyName13]

Coffee lake really made me regret my r5 1600 purchase By the time I start using all the cores it will probably be what fx is today.

[Jon Jon]

1 hour ago, gbergeron said:

AMD fan boy detected.

 

Same F you release as 7700k ? this one change the entire skus... 4 cores i3 and 6 cores i5 etc... are you blind?

 

Also,

 

Only works with expensive boards ?? what ??? stupid thermals ? what ?

 

Lets just put it simple : Coffee lakes performs better than ryzen in mostly everything and especially gaming.

 

I'll just leave this here in case you don't understand words, you surely can watch videos. Cofee lake is literally DESTROYING ryzen in games, its not even close :

 

 

 

So not sure why you talkshit about it, no offense tho, ryzen still great products, they just not even close to cofee lake in gaming

 

And BTW, I think we all expected that....

 

But there will always be some AMD fan boys like in the time of the FX chips that will yell " oh but amd is futur proofing you can upgrade the same chipset stays for years and programmers will use more cores later bla bla bla " AKA won't happen

 

Don't get me wrong, I would pick an AMD if they were better for sure. I like AMD. Wish they could perform better than intel in gaming. That would be a hit to intel's market share. But it's not happening. maybe one day, but for now, theres no reason to buy amd for gaming well I feel like, amd was worth buying just between kaby lake and coffee lake. Now im not sure why u would pick an amd over an intel even if not gaming, maybe budget ? probably..

 

Hope to see ryzen 2 beat intel in gaming, but thats like very unlikely to me

 

No fanboy detected.

 

I swap between platforms and primarily push Intel for my job, because xeons have far better support for virtualization

 

I said that if it wasn't for Ryzen, we would have gotten another F-U release like the 7700K.

 

The 7700K was an F-U release. Did you not remember the reviews when it launched? There was almost no performance difference between the 6700K and 7700K in almost all benchmarks. The big feature change I saw with Kaby Lake was that the integrated GPU had native support for 4K video and supported the DRM requirements for 4K Netflix, Amazon, etc, which gives it awesome potential for Plex.

 

I am confident we would not have seen a 6-core mainstream CPU this generation if it wasn't for Ryzen, because we simply had not seen it for 7 generations.

 

Or was it just Ryzen happening coincidentally at the right time? I doubt it.

 

WIth that all said, yes, The 8700K does burn a ton of power and run hot. It's literally referenced in every video and review for it. It's the fastest mainstream CPU on the market, but those are also lumped in with those facts.

 

I nearly upgraded to Broadwell a year ago because I needed more than four cores for the stuff I wanted to do, as my 5 year old ivy bridge build was just not doing everything I wanted to, but couldn't due to cost.

 

Now we don't need to, and I thank AMD bringing competition back to the mainstream CPU space to poke the sleeping giant to actually try again.

 

Also, I think this is more of an "INTEL FANBOY DETECTED" scenario.

 

I am just stating facts here, with some speculation based on past knowledge.

 

I am not going to be condescending or rude like you are being, but really man, you have to look at the past and see what is happening now.

 

Especially since, if you look at the bigger picture, the 8700K is clearly cannibalizing X299, which in turn came off like a weird knee jerk reaction as well.

 

Rather than fanboying for Intel, you should be poking them hard to give you better thermals, better power delivery, and to stop using garbage TIM.

 

Just like from AMD, you should want better IPC and better memory support (since Ryzen memory support is ridiculous beyond belief).

 

 

 

 

 

[cj09beira]

2 hours ago, MyName13 said:

Coffee lake really made me regret my r5 1600 purchase By the time I start using all the cores it will probably be what fx is today.

that 1600 of yours is still a great cpu, bought cheaper than those coffe lake chips, in a platform that will out live intel's platform by a lot, and unless you are playing at 144hz you would not get any perf difference between the two

[gbergeron]

4 hours ago, Jon Jon said:

No fanboy detected.

 

I swap between platforms and primarily push Intel for my job, because xeons have far better support for virtualization

 

I said that if it wasn't for Ryzen, we would have gotten another F-U release like the 7700K.

 

The 7700K was an F-U release. Did you not remember the reviews when it launched? There was almost no performance difference between the 6700K and 7700K in almost all benchmarks. The big feature change I saw with Kaby Lake was that the integrated GPU had native support for 4K video and supported the DRM requirements for 4K Netflix, Amazon, etc, which gives it awesome potential for Plex.

 

I am confident we would not have seen a 6-core mainstream CPU this generation if it wasn't for Ryzen, because we simply had not seen it for 7 generations.

 

Or was it just Ryzen happening coincidentally at the right time? I doubt it.

 

WIth that all said, yes, The 8700K does burn a ton of power and run hot. It's literally referenced in every video and review for it. It's the fastest mainstream CPU on the market, but those are also lumped in with those facts.

 

I nearly upgraded to Broadwell a year ago because I needed more than four cores for the stuff I wanted to do, as my 5 year old ivy bridge build was just not doing everything I wanted to, but couldn't due to cost.

 

Now we don't need to, and I thank AMD bringing competition back to the mainstream CPU space to poke the sleeping giant to actually try again.

 

Also, I think this is more of an "INTEL FANBOY DETECTED" scenario.

 

I am just stating facts here, with some speculation based on past knowledge.

 

I am not going to be condescending or rude like you are being, but really man, you have to look at the past and see what is happening now.

 

Especially since, if you look at the bigger picture, the 8700K is clearly cannibalizing X299, which in turn came off like a weird knee jerk reaction as well.

 

Rather than fanboying for Intel, you should be poking them hard to give you better thermals, better power delivery, and to stop using garbage TIM.

 

Just like from AMD, you should want better IPC and better memory support (since Ryzen memory support is ridiculous beyond belief).

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I know man,

 

Ryzen did bring competition. And if anybody would be Intel, or a dominating company in a domain, everyone would have done the samething. Why push for more powerful cpu when you are already the king... You would want to make maximum profit. Thats being human.

 

Might run hot a bit or consume more power... who cares ? Fact is you were saying coffee lake was not worth it and should go ryzen, which is totally being Fanboy.

 

I don't care going amd or intel. I am just saying coffee lake is way better than ryzen. No doubt.

 

7700K wasnt an improvement to 6700k we all know that..  

 

Didnt mean to be rude, it's just that saying ryzen more worth it than intel because it will keep am4 tin 2020 is totaly amd fan boying  

 

Just buy what is best and intel is with coffee lake way ahead. 

 

Even when Ryzen came,. people were still buying intel 7700k to game cuz it was the best.

 

Now with coffee lake, they just killed ryzen for gaming either you go for a r3 r5 r7 they all perform under coffe lakes i3 i5 i7

 

I don't see any reason to buy a ryzen for gaming, even with the am4 platform stayin til 2020. Because I don't think its going to be amazing the next ryzen and etc.. But we will see. But yet all my predictions were good, I said to people ryzen will be very nice, it was, I said kaby lake will hold his king title for gaming cpu, it did, and I said coffee lake is going to destroy amd ryzen line up, and it did.

 

Believe me, I don't give a damn F*** what company makes the best cpu, I just watch benchmarks from many sources and pick the best. Last time AMD was the best for me was in 2004 or around that. I don't count ryzen as the best well at least, they did very good for couple months..

 

All those little issues you stated about intel are true, but it doesn't change the fact that the cpu are better. Buying a ryzen just because coffee lake is a bit hot or bad TIM makes no sense, even with that they are still way better buying for gaming cpu. and hoping that the am4 platform performs better than intel in the next ryzen 2 or whatever, is in my opinoin, dreaming. You buy what is best now, buying for futur is a mistake. you never know whats coming. 

 

I think both our comments are facts ? You can still prefer AMD for your reasons and thats totally fine, but the stats speaks for themself. Coffee lake is just thaaa bomb !

[davyre89]

14 hours ago, Robert IT said:

I know ,I know coffee lake is best at gaming and tie at editing but AMD promises that they will have new prosesors for AM4 soket for at least 3-4 years that means you can get high end prosesor in 2021 without geting a new mothet board and also ryzen is cheper and overclockble without a premium edition .So Ryzen is the long therm smart choise and intel is like who has money to spend trowith to us

If your plan is to upgrade to "high end" AM4 processor in 2021, then there wouldn't be much difference with getting either Intel or Ryzen from now tbh.

[Jon Jon]

22 hours ago, gbergeron said:

Yeah I know man,

 

Ryzen did bring competition. And if anybody would be Intel, or a dominating company in a domain, everyone would have done the samething. Why push for more powerful cpu when you are already the king... You would want to make maximum profit. Thats being human.

 

Might run hot a bit or consume more power... who cares ? Fact is you were saying coffee lake was not worth it and should go ryzen, which is totally being Fanboy.

 

I don't care going amd or intel. I am just saying coffee lake is way better than ryzen. No doubt.

 

7700K wasnt an improvement to 6700k we all know that..  

 

Didnt mean to be rude, it's just that saying ryzen more worth it than intel because it will keep am4 tin 2020 is totaly amd fan boying  

 

Just buy what is best and intel is with coffee lake way ahead. 

 

Even when Ryzen came,. people were still buying intel 7700k to game cuz it was the best.

 

Now with coffee lake, they just killed ryzen for gaming either you go for a r3 r5 r7 they all perform under coffe lakes i3 i5 i7

 

I don't see any reason to buy a ryzen for gaming, even with the am4 platform stayin til 2020. Because I don't think its going to be amazing the next ryzen and etc.. But we will see. But yet all my predictions were good, I said to people ryzen will be very nice, it was, I said kaby lake will hold his king title for gaming cpu, it did, and I said coffee lake is going to destroy amd ryzen line up, and it did.

 

Believe me, I don't give a damn F*** what company makes the best cpu, I just watch benchmarks from many sources and pick the best. Last time AMD was the best for me was in 2004 or around that. I don't count ryzen as the best well at least, they did very good for couple months..

 

All those little issues you stated about intel are true, but it doesn't change the fact that the cpu are better. Buying a ryzen just because coffee lake is a bit hot or bad TIM makes no sense, even with that they are still way better buying for gaming cpu. and hoping that the am4 platform performs better than intel in the next ryzen 2 or whatever, is in my opinoin, dreaming. You buy what is best now, buying for futur is a mistake. you never know whats coming. 

 

I think both our comments are facts ? You can still prefer AMD for your reasons and thats totally fine, but the stats speaks for themself. Coffee lake is just thaaa bomb !

I didn't say it wasn't worth it, I said it isn't killing AMD.

 

Intel has always been a platform where you get what you pay for, so if money is no object, you will get performance and stability.

 

If you are gaming only, I would argue it depends on your monitor.

 

1080P60 gaming, you are better served getting an R5 / Coffee Lake i3 and taking the rest and dumping it into a good graphics card.

 

If you are going for 144hz+, you need to go Intel. I've seen benchmarks where even an i5 will bottleneck you. However, the 6 core i5 8600K may be the sweet spot for that because overclocking and 6 straight cores.

 

They're still issues that need to be discussed. I won't ignore issues and not talk about them just because "derp it's better".

 

Intel is the performance king ignoring cost, but when you factor in cost, that's what makes for the exciting conversation.

 

If I were to compare this to work, I would just tell the BU to buy the fastest Xeons available and call it a day, but in the mainstream space, cost is way more important.

 

I think 24 PCI-E lanes from the CPU and the promise for future CPUs until 2020 is a great deal.

 

I wish I could have upgraded my ivy bridge build to a later CPU, but I didn't have that option, and that would have saved me quite a few bucks for sure!

 

Part of what drove this purchase...well that and me actually utilizing more PCI-E lanes. It's nice to have native NVME on PCI-E along with some lanes to spare for my capture card without bogging down my future video card upgrade!

[Brett_Bst]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:21 PM, Robert IT said:

Yes you dont upgrade very year but who khows what procesor heavy programs or games will apear and if like me you are on a buget pc and you need to upgrade as fast as posible as cheap as posible and as much performance as posible and without changing motherboard saving money

your statement right there is calling out for amd as you need low price high performance which = amd