whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Mercedes invest in radical electric car technology which could revolutionise the industry

[leadeater]

41 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The better drivers are typically the ones that drive large vans, trucks, and box vans often.

Here I'd say van drivers are the worst lol

[jagdtigger]

22 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Here I'd say van drivers are the worst lol

The problem is that all of the categories are full of idiots. I mean really, i most have camera on the front and the back of my motor bike to keep them at bay... Fortunately the wast majority of these idiots do not have the balls to start anything in front of a camera.

[AresKrieger]

Using a capacitor in this manner presents a lot of issues in my mind, for instance capacitors are not usually used for bulk storage of energy for a 2 reasons first they can't store energy for an extended period of time and secondly they are more suited for delivering a burst of energy (like a old camera flash or a defibrillator) due to how quickly the energy drops off from use.

 

Additionally I don't want to be anywhere near a cap powerful enough to drive a car if a fender bender ensued. So in short this is a marketing announcement for shareholders and what not that might never bear fruit.

[Sniperfox47]

21 hours ago, emosun said:

for those wondering , it's not a battery but a capacitor , which is definitely not revolutionary or new

Where are people getting that these are capacitors? The article specifically states they're batteries, StoreDot is a startup who makes batteries, and all of the other past articles about StoreDot's tech has called them batteries...

21 hours ago, tjcater said:

Still waiting for Solid State batteries inside anything outside of labs...

That's pretty much what this is, is it not? Nanomaterial and organic compound batteries designed for rapid, high efficiency charging and discharging.

 

StoreDot is also supposedly working on phone batteries.

 

And yeah, considering their use of organic compounds, I'd guess they'll probably have a shorter life expectancy than Lion or Lolymer, but I may be wrong on that.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

That's pretty much what this is, is it not? Nanomaterial and organic compound batteries designed for rapid, high efficiency charging and discharging.

 

StoreDot is also supposedly working on phone batteries.

 

And yeah, considering their use of organic compounds, I'd guess they'll probably have a shorter life expectancy than Lion or Lolymer, but I may be wrong on that.

I was referring to the ones that had a glass-based electrolytes instead and were based on the same tech we're using today (Lion and etc.)

Edit: Some links if interested. (Link1, Link2, Etc.)

Edit2: For the lazy: Could be 3 times as dense as current Lion batteries, greater discharge/charge cycles, noncombustible (Not in the sense of sticking it in a fire, but from how Lion batteries short circuit themselves over time), Better operation in sub-zero temps, simplified battery cell fabrication, and better support for alkali-metal based anodes.

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Here I'd say van drivers are the worst lol

Most stupid shit i see large van drivers (think Ford E250) comes down to blind spots, not actually bad driving, pyo. It's also minor things, pyo. Drivers of small vans, like the Ford Transit, are as bad as car drivers, pyo.

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

The problem is that all of the categories are full of idiots. I mean really, i most have camera on the front and the back of my motor bike to keep them at bay... Fortunately the wast majority of these idiots do not have the balls to start anything in front of a camera.

Yeah, but drivers of large vehicles seem more aware that large vehicles, especially loaded ones, usually take longer to stop, and they know that the limitations of where they can fit their rig on a highway, pyo.

Whereas cars, small trucks, and small vans cut me off at a minimum of twice a week, pyo. Though, I imagine them doing that, and immediately hearing a diesel engine go from 1,400 RPM to 3,000 scares them, makes them shit their pants, pyo.

But I give bikers twice the following distance that I do cars, pyo. My truck would leave nothing but a red smear, pyo.

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Most stupid shit i see large van drivers (think Ford E250) comes down to blind spots, not actually bad driving, pyo. It's also minor things, pyo. Drivers of small vans, like the Ford Transit, are as bad as car drivers, pyo.

Yeah, but drivers of large vehicles seem more aware that large vehicles, especially loaded ones, usually take longer to stop, and they know that the limitations of where they can fit their rig on a highway, pyo.

Whereas cars, small trucks, and small vans cut me off at a minimum of twice a week, pyo. Though, I imagine them doing that, and immediately hearing a diesel engine go from 1,400 RPM to 3,000 scares them, makes them shit their pants, pyo.

But I give bikers twice the following distance that I do cars, pyo. My truck would leave nothing but a red smear, pyo.

Dont be so sure about that, i have 2 139 dB horn on my scooter but its like nothing. The idiot still just looking ahead like nothing is happened. BTW longer following distance is always a good idea in case of a bike. They have shorter braking distance than an auto, plus the engine brake is strong too.

[Drak3]

16 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Dont be so sure about that, i have 2 139 dB horn on my scooter but its like nothing.

I dunno, they almost always look back with a look if panic, pyo. It's better if I'm slowly gaining on them, change lanes, and then pass them in a second, pyo.

[ionbasa]

6 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Which equates to either fucking over your tranny, or shifting at the same point that a modern automatic does. With my auto-6 in my RAM, I've got all the control I need. Hell, I can drop to first or jump to 6 and have more assurance that I'm not murdering my tranny because it will preserve itself by shifting though the gears as I accelerate. Whereas jumping straight to the top gear on a manual from a low gear is putting more strain on the tranny that it would expience going through the gears correctly.

 

AKA 4x4, which is pretty much a standard on any 3/4 ton truck, and most 1/2 tons.

 

Modern trannies, it's only because the OEM deems automatics to be worth the premium, and I agree with them. Modern vehicles use the same tranny for both your auto and manual, both will be controlled via computer. However, the auto has a profile that tells it how to shift.

I've only been driving for a few short years, but here's my conclusion: the vast majority of drivers suck. A good amount shouldn't be allowed a license. The better drivers are typically the ones that drive large vans, trucks, and box vans often.

Tranny of choice doesn't fix stupid. It doesn't stop people from texting once they're in the gear they want.

You bring up good points, and I agree with all of them except the first one. Inexperienced drivers tend to grind gears here and there. In my case, I had a 94 Toyota 1/2 pickup with manual transmission. 300k+ miles, only had to change the clutch plate which is a day's worth of work. Good luck servicing an automatic transmission. That truck has since been replaced by a Nissan Frontier 2015 (also manual) but my other 3 cars including my two Mazda's and my GLA250 are all automatic. There's also the sports car market segment, where in some cases, you only get a manual transmission. I wouldn't buy a sports car though, they don't make sense for most people.

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, ionbasa said:

You bring up good points, and I agree with all of them except the first one. Inexperienced drivers tend to grind gears here and there. In my case, I had a 94 Toyota 1/2 pickup with manual transmission. 300k+ miles, only had to change the clutch plate which is a day's worth of work. Good luck servicing an automatic transmission. That truck has since been replaced by a Nissan Frontier 2015 (also manual) but my other 3 cars including my two Mazda's and my GLA250 are all automatic. There's also the sports car market segment, where in some cases, you only get a manual transmission. I wouldn't buy a sports car though, they don't make sense for most people.

My point isn't that everyone is killing a manual just from using it. It's that you'll either be shifting in the same manner as modern autos, or you're grinding gears by jumping them.

Of couse, some modern manuals preserve themselves, but before computerized trannies, that was something to consider.

 

And like I said, modern cars use the same tranny for both auto and manual. They just differ at the program ran and the shifter. Older cars, you'd be right. Autos then used torque to shift automatically, taking away power. But now, a computer reads RPM and shifts based off of that.

Hell, some vehicles have profiles for different shifting patterns, sometimes traction control and steering responciveness.

My RAM 2500 has an Auto-6. I can manually cycle through gears if needed, and jump from 2 to 6 if I want, or go from 6 to 1, and it'll cycle through those gears. I also have a tow/haul mode that makes my truck shift closer to 2700-2900 RPM instead of 1700-2100. That is, IMO, thr best option.

Pyo.

[Mr.Dingle]

34 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

My point isn't that everyone is killing a manual just from using it. It's that you'll either be shifting in the same manner as modern autos, or you're grinding gears by jumping them.

Of couse, some modern manuals preserve themselves, but before computerized trannies, that was something to consider.

 

And like I said, modern cars use the same tranny for both auto and manual. They just differ at the program ran and the shifter. Older cars, you'd be right. Autos then used torque to shift automatically, taking away power. But now, a computer reads RPM and shifts based off of that.

Hell, some vehicles have profiles for different shifting patterns, sometimes traction control and steering responciveness.

My RAM 2500 has an Auto-6. I can manually cycle through gears if needed, and jump from 2 to 6 if I want, or go from 6 to 1, and it'll cycle through those gears. I also have a tow/haul mode that makes my truck shift closer to 2700-2900 RPM instead of 1700-2100. That is, IMO, thr best option.

Pyo.

Gridning gears by jumping in a modern manual ? What ?

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, ColonelThunder said:

Gridning gears by jumping in a modern manual ? What ?

Going directly from 1st or 2nd to 5 or 6 will grind the gear, pyo. Not as much as going from 4th to reverse, or being bad with the clutch, but you're slowly ruining a manual if you do that, pyo.

 

And that's the only remaining "advantage" of a manual over an auto-4/5/6/etc, pyo.

[jagdtigger]

8 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Going directly from 1st or 2nd to 5 or 6 will grind the gear, pyo. Not as much as going from 4th to reverse, or being bad with the clutch, but you're slowly ruining a manual if you do that, pyo.

 

And that's the only remaining "advantage" of a manual over an auto-4/5/6/etc, pyo.

HE??????? Are you seen any synchronized manual tranny's inside? Even if you jump gears you cant grind them...

[ionbasa]

9 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Going directly from 1st or 2nd to 5 or 6 will grind the gear, pyo. Not as much as going from 4th to reverse, or being bad with the clutch, but you're slowly ruining a manual if you do that, pyo.

 

And that's the only remaining "advantage" of a manual over an auto-4/5/6/etc, pyo.

I think I'm going to stop discussing this. You're talking to a member (me) who belongs to SAE International. Let that sink in for a bit. 

 

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

HE??????? Are you seen any synchronized manual tranny's inside? Even if you jump gears you cant grind them...

 

11 hours ago, ColonelThunder said:

Gridning gears by jumping in a modern manual ? What ?

^^^What they said.

 

12 hours ago, Drak3 said:

...

And like I said, modern cars use the same tranny for both auto and manual. They just differ at the program ran and the shifter.

Just no. The transmissions are way different. Manual transmissions rely on a synchromesh. I wish I could link you to SAE docs/whitepapers, but since I can't i'll have to settle with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission#Synchronized_transmission

 

Manual transmissions don't grind gears anymore, the 'grinding noise' is actually the collar not being in the proper speed with the gear being selected (due to driver error with the clutch). The best explanation I could find: " As you move your shift lever into gear it is sliding a collar over the end of a gear.  The collar is connected to the input shaft in your transmission so once it engages the gear, that gear is also [engaged]. The grinding sound you hear is [the] collar colliding with the end of the gear if it is spinning at a faster or slower speed than the shaft in your transmission.  Modern transmissions minimize this grinding by adding a synchronizer ring before the gear that helps get the collar and input shaft up to speed during a shift.  The synchronizer ring, often simply called the “synchro” keeps things quiet and smooth in between shifts."

 

So, jumping gears won't cause grinding. What you're hearing isn't the teeth on the gears grinding, but rather the collar butting up against the gear at an wrong speed. Hell, some vehicles force you to 'skip shift' via shift blocking, its common the Corvette and a few other vehicles where you are forced to go from 1st to 4th (unless you launch or floor it). I've personally dropped from 5th to 3rd going uphill and just about any combo imaginable, with one notable exception: Some vehicles block you from downshifting into 1st unless going less than 5MPH. (due to torque being so high in that gear), it also encourages people to make full stops at 4 way intersections. 

 

EDIT:

 

 

[Vode]

Damn I don't get it.

 

How about we get rid of coal power plants first before we build lots of electric cars?

 

Electric cars are not really "clean energy" until then... You just burn the fuel somewhere else.

[TheReal1980]

What happened to this?

 

[piemadd]

Here is the thing, if they were un-innovative, they could fill up capacitors, and then have those trickle charge the batteries, therefore "charging the batteries" in 5 minutes.

[corsairian]

On 9/15/2017 at 9:20 AM, terrytek said:

How bout instead of investing in battery tech and ruining the car industry, MErcedes bring back the manual transmission in their luxury cars and bring them back in luxury cars.

What's luxurious about pressing in a heavy clutch every time you change gear? Especially city driving, that wouldn't be fun for a luxury vehicle. 

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, corsairian said:

What's luxurious about pressing in a heavy clutch every time you change gear? Especially city driving, that wouldn't be fun for a luxury vehicle. 

And what is the luxury in a choked down car? (Because all of the modern cars are.)

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

Mercedes going all electric on their city cars? That's going to have the same issues as Teslas. And the issue isn't about the technology, it's about the economics of a luxury electric car. 

 

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Mercedes going all electric on their city cars? That's going to have the same issues as Teslas. And the issue isn't about the technology, it's about the economics of a luxury electric car. 

Yet all the issues he is pointing out at the time stamp are exactly the same with any car, full electric or non at all. So I don't see how this is specifically a down side to Tesla's or electric cars.

 

Also his point about high maintenance costs is poorly explained with not much reasoning and thought in to it. General maintenance is less so when it comes time to replace the battery which is very expensive now it might not be as expensive, still costly but how close to the TCO of a standard car is it? Likely not that far off.

 

Then at the time of battery replacement you could just buy another newer used Tesla.

 

These same situations exist for BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc. You could buy a new one or get a 3 year old one for half or even less cost of new. I got my car NZ new imported with 25km OD, I would have to be crazy to buy the same car new.

[BuckGup]

Wow a clay super capacitor. They have been around for centuries...

[Zodiark1593]

On 9/16/2017 at 3:50 PM, Drak3 said:

Going directly from 1st or 2nd to 5 or 6 will grind the gear, pyo. Not as much as going from 4th to reverse, or being bad with the clutch, but you're slowly ruining a manual if you do that, pyo.

 

And that's the only remaining "advantage" of a manual over an auto-4/5/6/etc, pyo.

In a synchromesh transmission made in the past 30+ years, grinding of gears isn't a concern unless the clutch isn't fully disengaged. However, if you're going at a high speed in a high gear, and mistakenly drop to too low a gear (let's say, from 5th to 2nd at 80 mph), you can mechanically force the engine to over rev, and potentially damage/nuke the engine or transmission.

 

Compared to modern automatics, the advantages conferred by manuals seem to be in gear ratios (manual transmissions are typically offered with shorter gearing for quicker acceleration with the same engine power), and more predictable and easier to fix failure points, namely the clutch and synchros, making long term repair more financially viable for those that like to hold on to their cars bordering on necromancy. To note, The gear ratio part isn't a technical advantage, rather, a choice by auto makers to improve acceleration for those that choose manual vehicles, and improve economy for their automatic lineup.

[piemadd]

15 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

In a synchromesh transmission made in the past 30+ years, grinding of gears isn't a concern unless the clutch isn't fully disengaged. However, if you're going at a high speed in a high gear, and mistakenly drop to too low a gear (let's say, from 5th to 2nd at 80 mph), you can mechanically force the engine to over rev, and potentially damage/nuke the engine or transmission.

 

Compared to modern automatics, the advantages conferred by manuals seem to be in gear ratios (manual transmissions are typically offered with shorter gearing for quicker acceleration with the same engine power), and more predictable and easier to fix failure points, namely the clutch and synchros, making long term repair more financially viable for those that like to hold on to their cars bordering on necromancy. To note, The gear ratio part isn't a technical advantage, rather, a choice by auto makers to improve acceleration for those that choose manual vehicles, and improve economy for their automatic lineup.

There are the modern combinations, where they can shift into a position, and then either with buttons on the clutch, or moving the clutch slightly up and down, shift the gears.

 

Like these:

 

[Zodiark1593]

18 minutes ago, Implosivetech said:

There are the modern combinations, where they can shift into a position, and then either with buttons on the clutch, or moving the clutch slightly up and down, shift the gears.

 

Like these:

 

The 2nd video is actually an automatic transmission with manual gear select mode. The underlying technology is still the traditional planetary gear transmission with torque converter. Not exactly the same thing. My sister's 2003 BMW has the same thing, though tbh I can make downshifts much faster in my manual Mazda than that thing.

 

Dual clutch systems seem to be the closest underlying equivalent to a manual that you would actually want to use in a daily (single clutch e-gear setups exist, but tend to exhibit faster clutch wear), though slowly creeping forward over an extended period is a surefire way to murder the clutches in those, so they aren't used much beyond luxury or top end sports cars. Volkswagen tends to be a bit more generous with these. In return however, dual clutch systems offer the fastest shifts anywhere, beating even professional racing drivers.