Spotify Web Player no longer supports Safari as they move to use Widevine CDM in Web Player. Music DRM in your browser??!!

[Droidbot]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

All I hear nowadays from those who pirate.  I am still waiting for that one person to come along and admit the real reason they pirate, i.e they don't want to pay for it.

I've found music on Soulseek and other alternative services that I couldn't find anywhere else on the internet. 

I couldn't buy it, so I pirated it. I can imagine it's the same with a lot of music from smaller artists. 

[mr moose]

30 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Legally speaking, it's not theft.  It's copyright infringement.  Theft implies a loss, whereas digital products can't technically be stolen because they're so easy to replicate.  Morally and ethically is a different matter, however.

That is certainly a reason many use, though there are other reasons.  Finding a rare copy of some movie/game/album that's not in distribution anymore, following a TV show that you can't get in your area because of the geo-blocking you previously mentioned, etc.  It's not a black-and-white issue.  You can't just say all "piracy" is bad.

 

For example, when I switched to Windows XP x64 edition (the first desktop 64-bit Windows version), I could no longer play my legitimate copy of Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, and only because of the accursed StarForce copy protection.  Ubisoft refused to do anything about it, forcing me to wait for a cracking group to release a "patch" for my legitimately bought game so I could play it.  I paid for it (in fact, I had 4 separate legitimate copies of the game for myriad reasons), yet I couldn't play it, and the publisher didn't care one iota.

 

Technically speaking, I was supporting "piracy" by downloading that modified exe, but it was necessary to play what I had bought and paid for.  If Ubisoft had never used SF, or if they had removed the copy protection (by that point, they had made their initial sales), then I would have been able to play without issue.  As it stood I was ignored and abandoned, and I won't forget it.

 

4 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

I've found music on Soulseek and other alternative services that I couldn't find anywhere else on the internet. 

I couldn't buy it, so I pirated it. I can imagine it's the same with a lot of music from smaller artists. 

 

If you can't legally get it in your country then technically it's tough titties for you.  If a copyright owner doesn't want to sell their product to your country or at a price that the average person can reasonable afford then the average person isn't allowed to have it.

 

It is actually very black and white.

 

and:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Electronic_Theft_Act

 

We can split hairs about the meaning of the word theft, but they created a law that addresses the fact it was theft without taking something.

[Jito463]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

It is actually very black and white.

No comments about the rest of my post?  I'd say that is definitely a grey area.

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

No comments about the rest of my post?  I'd say that is definitely a grey area.

whats to say? it comes under the same premise as the rest.    In some countries we have consumer law that would force Ubicrap to remedy that situation, but given they never guaranteed it to work with 64 and you're in the US you have to vote with your wallet.  Being stitched up by a dodgy company still doesn't give you the right to infringe copyright.

 

 

 

 

[Droidbot]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

and:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Electronic_Theft_Act

 

 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

 

 

not sure what your point is, but just to let you know, iinet in AUS will throw your VPN under the bus (and potentially you) before it  gets shutdown by our over zealous government.

 

 

[Droidbot]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

not sure what your point is, but just to let you know, iinet in AUS will throw your VPN under the bus (and potentially you) before it  gets shutdown by our over zealous government.

 

 

That's a VPN ad. This is my home IP. US copyright law does not apply to Australia.

Our government is so out of touch with technology that the only blocks in place to block sites like Piratebay and Kickass are very easily bypassed DNS blocks. Australia has been flagged as a continent with high piracy and there is a very lax set of laws over here. 

 

I know people that have been pirating content for well over 10 years. Reason? Content is expensive ($75AUD+ a month) or unavailable. 

 

The government is so lax on this topic that private corporations have gone and flagged IPs that have pirated their films, and publicly requested information on these users from the ISPs. 

[mr moose]

Just now, Droidbot said:

That's a VPN ad. This is my home IP. US copyright law does not apply to Australia.

Our government is so out of touch with technology that the only blocks in place to block sites like Piratebay and Kickass are very easily bypassed DNS blocks. Australia has been flagged as a continent with high piracy and there is a very lax set of laws over here. 

 

Um, copyright law in Aus is actually much tougher,  you are not even allowed to rip or make a backup of your cd's let alone download something.  Also every ISP logs your IP for every session and holds that info for 2 years.  You can use a VPN, but that is no guarantee that the site you are logged into at the other end isn't compromised seeding you a tracker/malware/something.   The best thing we have going for us is the courts are geared to kick hard against corporate bully boy activity.  If they decide to be reasonable you could actually find yourself in trouble.

 

Just now, Droidbot said:

I know people that have been pirating content for well over 10 years. Reason? Content is expensive ($75AUD+ a month) or unavailable. 

 

The government is so lax on this topic that private corporations have gone and flagged IPs that have pirated their films, and publicly requested information on these users from the ISPs. 

Content is much cheaper than that now,  it's all settled back to $15 a month for a streaming service.

 

And I assume you are talking about dallas buyers club,  the only reason they failed was becasue they went for too much and where being bullies, that got the ire of the judge and told them to shove off.  Had they requested $7 from each person they might have got all the names and addresses.  Believe it or not the iinet dallas thing was close and was more a win for the pirates only because of corporate greed than anything.

[Droidbot]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Um, copyright law in Aus is actually much tougher,  you are not even allowed to rip or make a backup of your cd's let alone download something. 

Man, that'd be fun to enforce. Protip: it ain't. 

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Also every ISP logs your IP for every session and holds that info for 2 years.  You can use a VPN, but that is no guarantee that the site you are logged into at the other end isn't compromised seeding you a tracker/malware/something.   The best thing we have going for us is the courts are geared to kick hard against corporate bully boy activity. 

Fair point, but they have never used that data against their customers. Whether they do in the future depends. 

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If they decide to be reasonable you could actually find yourself in trouble.

And that's what Roadshow intends to do, again. Will they be successful? Let's see.  

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Content is much cheaper than that now,  it's all settled back to $15 a month for a streaming service.

Foxtel Now would like a word with you. GoT is $15 a month alongside some shitty other shows, and to get live sports you need a base pack + sports pack, which makes it over $40 a month. And then for some shows there's Stan, and other shows are on Netflix, and others are on Presto. It's shitty. 

[LAwLz]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

All I hear nowadays from those who pirate.  I am still waiting for that one person to come along and admit the real reason they pirate, i.e they don't want to pay for it.

I pirate quite a bit and the real reason I pirate is because there is a legitimate, huge distribution problem when it comes to anime and manga.

 

Watch it on TV? Sorry but I don't have access to Japanese TV channels. Even if I did I would not have subtitles.

Wait for the BD release? Could work, but sadly a lot of BDs are region locked and circumventing that is illegal too. Even if I did I would once again run into the issue of subtitles being nonexisting.

Legitimate streaming services like Crunchyroll? Works for the shows that are on there, but that's sadly far from all shows.

 

If there was a service that allowed me to get DRM free copies of episodes, with english subtitles then I would have no problem paying for it (assuming the price was reasonable).

That does not exist though. Right now my options are either pirate these shows, or don't watch them at all.

 

Of course option one is illegal, but since it does not have any negative impact on the creators and it makes my life better I see it as justifiable. You might not agree, but this idea that I only pirate because I don't want to pay for something is wrong. I choose to support the shows through other means, such as buying merchandise (which isn't region locked).

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Droidbot said:

Man, that'd be fun to enforce. Protip: it ain't. 

Fair point, but they have never used that data against their customers. Whether they do in the future depends. 

And that's what Roadshow intends to do, again. Will they be successful? Let's see.  

Foxtel Now would like a word with you. GoT is $15 a month alongside some shitty other shows, and to get live sports you need a base pack + sports pack, which makes it over $40 a month. And then for some shows there's Stan, and other shows are on Netflix, and others are on Presto. It's shitty. 

Format shifting is or at least used to be, unless they have changed it in the last 20 years.  Copying a tape or a cd to tape was illegal.

EDIT: I found the law on it,  they changed it in 2007 to allow cd ripping for 1 digital copy only and they cannot be stored on cloud services (even private),  however you are still not allowed to rip or copy a dvd at all.

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I pirate quite a bit and the real reason I pirate is because there is a legitimate, huge distribution problem when it comes to anime and manga.

 

Watch it on TV? Sorry but I don't have access to Japanese TV channels. Even if I did I would not have subtitles.

Wait for the BD release? Could work, but sadly a lot of BDs are region locked and circumventing that is illegal too. Even if I did I would once again run into the issue of subtitles being nonexisting.

Legitimate streaming services like Crunchyroll? Works for the shows that are on there, but that's sadly far from all shows.

 

If there was a service that allowed me to get DRM free copies of episodes, with english subtitles then I would have no problem paying for it (assuming the price was reasonable).

That does not exist though. Right now my options are either pirate these shows, or don't watch them at all.

 

Of course option one is illegal, but since it does not have any negative impact on the creators and it makes my life better I see it as justifiable. You might not agree, but this idea that I only pirate because I don't want to pay for something is wrong. I choose to support the shows through other means, such as buying merchandise (which isn't region locked).

Not having legal access to content does not make piracy legitimate.  It might be how you justify it but it doesn't change the legality.

 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Not having legal access to content does not make piracy legitimate.  It might be how you justify it but it doesn't change the legality.

You were not saying that people who pirate are doing something illegal though. You were saying that people who said things like distribution being an issue are just making excuses and in reality they just want free stuff. 

 

I don't pirate because I want free stuff, although I will admit it being free is a nice benefit. I pirate because it is legitimately no legal ways for me to obtain some of the media I want. 

Since there is no victim when I pirate (there is no loss of sale because they will not even sell it to me to begin with) I don't feel like I am doing something morally wrong either. It's legally wrong still, but that's not what we are debating. 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

You were not saying that people who pirate are doing something illegal though. You were saying that people who said things like distribution being an issue are just making excuses and in reality they just want free stuff. 

 

That was an error on my part,  I was being a little to specific when trying to be broad.  Yes many that I have encountered (IRL) are just tight arses, so there is that side of it, but more I was pointing those who try to convince themselves it is not illegal or that it is justified due to said reasoning. 

 

My shit stinks, make no mistake, I think I have even agreed that in the situation you are in  (we had this discussion a few years ago) that I would probably do the same.  But the crux of my message is that no matter which way we spin the discussion, copyright owners are the only ones who get to decide who is entitled to own a copy of said content and if they decide you can't have it then you aren't entitled to it. The issue is the copyright owners are being aresholes. 

[Bananasplit_00]

On 11/09/2017 at 5:08 AM, ShadowTechXTS said:

Who uses the web player anyway?

You could run it and addblocker for add free music lololololol, but it's useful on computers you are not allowed to install programs on, and I used it on my first gen Atom laptop because the standalone client refused to not lag to shit

[Bananasplit_00]

On 11/09/2017 at 6:06 AM, Jito463 said:

Am I the only one who actually buys CDs and rips them myself?

Look. 90% of the music I listen to seems to straight up not exist outside of Spotify. YouTube even comes up dry in a LOT of cases, and that's why I'm still using the pice of shit that Spotify is. Adds killed three of my speaker systems and they don't do shit. I was early to report the memory leek hell that the desktop app was at one point, got a load of up votes on their forum but what did they do? Jack shit. Somewhere while they were breaking other shit they managed to get rid of most of the memory leak it seems. I would buy my music if I could, but I can't. You can't even pirate it in any place I have found. 

[mynameisjuan]

12 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

I'm still using the pice of shit that Spotify is.

Me and others are happily enjoying spotify

[Bananasplit_00]

12 hours ago, Jito463 said:

 

For example, when I switched to Windows XP x64 edition (the first desktop 64-bit Windows version), I could no longer play my legitimate copy of Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, and only because of the accursed StarForce copy protection.  Ubisoft refused to do anything about it, forcing me to wait for a cracking group to release a "patch" for my legitimately bought game so I could play it.  I paid for it (in fact, I had 4 separate legitimate copies of the game for myriad reasons), yet I couldn't play it, and the publisher didn't care one iota.

Reminds me of NSFU2, I have a legitimate copy, but I run a cracked launcher file to get it to work at all... It seems to dislike windows 10 sometimes so cracking the exe solved problems that would never be otherwise solved. The only things I Pirate are things I don't even know how to get hold of I'm other ways/costs amounts that are frankly silly ie Anime. (and fuck crunchy roll, that UI can go die). I can agree I don't want to pay for stuff, but if I didn't get them via pirating I wouldn't bother with them at all. 

[Jito463]

37 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

Look. 90% of the music I listen to seems to straight up not exist outside of Spotify.

If you followed the thread progression, I was responding to a person talking about piracy.  I don't care if people use Spotify or not.

[Teddy07]

I don't like streaming so I rather record some songs from Spotify which I can't find on youtube. I also only hear old stuff as the new music is trash