What tier is this?

[pomkon]

4 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

1.  No +12V rail rating.  Simply stating the OCP for each of multiple +12V rails is NOT an indication of +12V capability.

 

2.  Fake UL logo.  Internal PSU's don't have UL logos like shown.  They have UR logos and come with a listing number.

 

3.  No CCC for China.  If it's for Taiwan, it needs BSMI.  Can't be for Japan because minimum mains voltage input is 110V and Japan uses 100V.

 

Also, note how the PSU has a "risk of electric chock."

 

This PSU has more warning signs than an old mine field.

it has 2 12v rails, each 19a? i been using it for 4 years.

can u show real ul, ur, ccc bsmi logo.

im from hong kong, we use 220-240v

[Stefan Payne]

12 hours ago, pomkon said:

https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=hk+600+12l+psu&rlz=1C9BKJA_enHK735HK735&oq=hk+600+12l+psu&aqs=chrome..69i57.19099j0j7&hl=zh-TW&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=nMwgJ_Pln3fReM:

 

https://m.imgur.com/ovSc5z6

this is the exact model I have been using 4 years. But I can't find any info. Those are Japanese words, but I don't assume it's from Japan.

what tier is this"? Does 3,3v 21a seems to high? What 3.3&5v 120w? It's less than combined 3.3 +5v 154w !

 

can someone tell me how old psu are more unstable, I,e, ripples and other stuff... are they bad for modern computer parts-

but modern motherboard advertise to have excellent circuit protections, I.e, 12 power phases, 5 voltage controllers, etc... (tech terms that I have no idea) 

How much protection do they offer, like premium x370 mobo?

if a psu failure cause mobo, cpu, hdd, ram, etc... to fry? Are they protected by warranties?

 

That unit is garbage.

 

Easiest way to know: There ain't no combined powers mentioned nowhere...

But that's essential for both the minor rails and if there are multiple +12V rails - that unit does not have either.

 

Since you are talking about an X370 board, it's best to replace this PSU immideatly, before upgrading because it's of unknown quality.

 

it has 2 12v rails, each 19a? i been using it for 4 years.

can u show real ul, ur, ccc bsmi logo.

im from hong kong, we use 220-240v

Yes, but only one +12V voltage (=one Transformer).

Multi Rail means that one +12V rail is split to multiple rails via a current sense circuit.

For that you absolutely NEED a +12V combined Power. You can NOT add the +12V rails because in every decent PSU all +12V rails combined are way more than the +12V combined Power.

If it isn't the case: Avoid the PSU at all cost, it's garbage (like some older, 2 Rail FSP Aurum models. AFAIR the 500W had two 18A rails).

 

Same goes for the minor rails. The +3,3V rail is usually generaded out of the +5V rail (that's why it has max 50mV ripple specified and not 33mV as all other rails have 1% ripple)

 

For the label: Just look for an ANtec or Corsair PSU Label, they should have the correct ones...

[Stefan Payne]

8 hours ago, JDE said:

That's Japanese, with both kana and kanji on it. Taiwanese uses Chinese script.

Japanese Kanji are chinese letters...

 

Well, the japanese writing system seems like a total mess, they use 3 different systems: (Kanj (=chinese symbols), Hiragana + Katakana)...

[DocSwag]

14 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

That's Chinese, not Japanese. That or Taiwanese.

Taiwanese is just traditional Chinese.

13 hours ago, herman mcpootis said:

the writing's in Japanese, the Chinese characters look more like kanji then traditional Chinese to me.

Assuming you're referring to writing on the psu itself? Which is correct.

 

Not sure why all the searches are all in traditional chinese rather than Japanese. Maybe it's all kanji? Which would be interesting.

10 hours ago, herman mcpootis said:

same, my chinese is pretty rubbish too, enough to get a borderline pass and it's probably getting worse now that i don't have to study it anymore. turns out 赤 means red so probably means red ghost power supply like what you said. 

Unfortunately, my reading and writing sucks. I speak well but read and write? Nope nope nope.

[Herman Mcpootis]

1 minute ago, DocSwag said:

Assuming you're referring to writing on the psu itself? Which is correct.

 

Not sure why all the searches are all in traditional chinese rather than Japanese. Maybe it's all kanji? Which would be interesting.

Unfortunately, my reading and writing sucks. I speak well but read and write? Nope nope nope.

yesh, was referring to the psu writing. if you're referring to the link OP listed, it's a hong kong version so probably just chinese. i can speak it well enough but i suck at reading the more complex words and writing the harder characters(the allocated boxes in exercise papers and my pen doesn't help me either).

 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, pomkon said:

it has 2 12v rails, each 19a? i been using it for 4 years.

can u show real ul, ur, ccc bsmi logo.

im from hong kong, we use 220-240v

Either you completely missed my point(s) or you're just extra curious.

 

Two +12V rails "rated" at 19A each means nothing.  That's just what the OCP is set to on each rail.  That means actual +12V capability is anywhere between 19A (228W) and ∞.  There's a whole row missing from that table and that row would tell you the +12V capability in watts.

 

A real UL Logo for a PSU would be this:  http://www.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/ul-marks/offeringsoverview/ulmarks/recog_pro.pdf   The kind of UL logo on that PSU is like something you'd find on a hair dryer or rice cooker.

 

And yes... You're from HK.  You use 230V.  But if the PSU is to be SOLD in Japan, which would explain the Japanese on the label, it needs to support 100V input.. which that PSU apparently cannot.

 

And if you've used it for four years without issue.... lucky you.

 

[LienusLateTips]

4 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Japanese Kanji are chinese letters...

There are some characters they changed, and the writing looks ever so slightly different. Also they use phrases a Chinese or Taiwanese person would never use. The phrase they use for station is 2 characters, and in Chinese it's one.

 

2 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Not sure why all the searches are all in traditional chinese rather than Japanese. Maybe it's all kanji? Which would be interesting.

Some characters are simplified Chinese while some are Kanji and some are traditional Chinese. It's a mess.

[DocSwag]

2 minutes ago, JDE said:

Some characters are simplified Chinese while some are Kanji and some are traditional Chinese. It's a mess.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it's all traditional...

[LienusLateTips]

9 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it's all traditional...

If I recall properly, in the top left the character for electricity “電” is not simplified in Japanese. They used the Chinese “电" 

 

 

And I think there are some other ones I didn't catch, so ok I guess

[DocSwag]

Just now, JDE said:

If I recall properly, in the top left the character for electricity “電” is not simplified in Japanese. They used the Chinese “电" 

 

 

And I think there are some other ones I didn't catch, so ok I guess

Is it? I'm not familiar enough with traditional to say.

[LienusLateTips]

1 minute ago, DocSwag said:

Is it? I'm not familiar enough with traditional to say.

I'm from Taiwan, and I write in Traditional. It's mandatory.

 

 

Just checked and I'm right, they didn't simplify 電

[DocSwag]

18 minutes ago, JDE said:

I'm from Taiwan, and I write in Traditional. It's mandatory.

 

 

Just checked and I'm right, they didn't simplify 電

derp  

[Guest]

17 hours ago, JDE said:

So much misinformation here. They used Japanese kana for the large, are kanji for the small part.

Ok.  I thought the kana was Chinese.

 

But that actually makes even less sense for this PSU to exist.... a PSU with Japanese on it that doesn't support Japanese mains.  Derrrrrrrrrrp!

[pomkon]

20 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

That unit is garbage.

 

Easiest way to know: There ain't no combined powers mentioned nowhere...

But that's essential for both the minor rails and if there are multiple +12V rails - that unit does not have either.

 

Yes, but only one +12V voltage (=one Transformer).

Multi Rail means that one +12V rail is split to multiple rails via a current sense circuit.

For that you absolutely NEED a +12V combined Power. You can NOT add the +12V rails because in every decent PSU all +12V rails combined are way more than the +12V combined Power.

If it isn't the case: Avoid the PSU at all cost, it's garbage (like some older, 2 Rail FSP Aurum models. AFAIR the 500W had two 18A rails).

 

Same goes for the minor rails. The +3,3V rail is usually generaded out of the +5V rail (that's why it has max 50mV ripple specified and not 33mV as all other rails have 1% ripple)

I know multi rails are old products. but if they can provide enough watts, there should be no problems, like i have been with this, cos i have never came close to stress this psu.

So why did it have 2 12v ratings on there, if its a single 12v rail?

 

''in every decent PSU all +12V rails combined are way more than the +12V combined Power.'' u mean all 12v rails, but modern psu mostly have 1 12v rail ? or 12 +5+3.3?

 

[pomkon]

18 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Either you completely missed my point(s) or you're just extra curious.

 

Two +12V rails "rated" at 19A each means nothing.  That's just what the OCP is set to on each rail.  That means actual +12V capability is anywhere between 19A (228W) and ∞.  There's a whole row missing from that table and that row would tell you the +12V capability in watts.

And if you've used it for four years without issue.... lucky you.

 

Im not that curious- the deeper i dig, the more i want to see, the more difficult it gets

 

OCP?

 

My motherboard did die. i suspect it was more of my cpu overheating, the heat paste dried out. Soon after i realised that and repasted, the motherboard died.

 

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, pomkon said:

I know multi rails are old products. 

No, there are modern multi rail products.

Single Rail offers _NO Benefit_, it just saves money (sometimes).

 

Especially in terms of development, because nobody has to think about the rail distribution.

 

1 hour ago, pomkon said:

but if they can provide enough watts, there should be no problems, like i have been with this, cos i have never came close to stress this psu.

Why don't you listen to what people have to say?
 

And no, that's not true. 

Because there are different quality grades.

And yours is not even in the 'honest rated' grade!!!

 

And that's what you don't understand. The label on the PSU is just an outright lie, the PSU never ever is a 600W unit!

And you don't want to use it because you don't know how the voltage looks. How good the regulation is.

It's very probable that something here is out of spec.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, pomkon said:

So why did it have 2 12v ratings on there, if its a single 12v rail?

you misunderstood.

multiple +12V rails is the same as your breaker box.

You have one strong voltage generated that is split by multiple breaker like circuits that, if too much current is detected, shuts down the PSU.

 

It's a safety feature that some people misunderstood...

1 hour ago, pomkon said:

''in every decent PSU all +12V rails combined are way more than the +12V combined Power.'' u mean all 12v rails, but modern psu mostly have 1 12v rail ? or 12 +5+3.3?

If the unit has multiple +12V rails, like a be quiet Straight Power 10, 500W you have 4 Rails:

40A combined on +12V (480W) but has 4 Rails with 18A each -> 72A.

An example of a bad unit is the 500W version of the FSP Aurum Gold. it has two +12V rails with 18A each, combined 432W -> 36A.
 

[pomkon]

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

If the unit has multiple +12V rails, like a be quiet Straight Power 10, 500W you have 4 Rails:

40A combined on +12V (480W) but has 4 Rails with 18A each -> 72A.

An example of a bad unit is the 500W version of the FSP Aurum Gold. it has two +12V rails with 18A each, combined 432W -> 36A.

40*12 =480 , but 12v*18A*4rails = 864?

 

whats wrong with giving 432W from its 500w rating? its just not as high?

 

Im listening and trying to learn

[mariushm]

On 9/1/2017 at 3:37 AM, pomkon said:

https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=hk+600+12l+psu&rlz=1C9BKJA_enHK735HK735&oq=hk+600+12l+psu&aqs=chrome..69i57.19099j0j7&hl=zh-TW&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=nMwgJ_Pln3fReM:

 

https://m.imgur.com/ovSc5z6

this is the exact model I have been using 4 years. But I can't find any info. Those are Japanese words, but I don't assume it's from Japan.

what tier is this"? Does 3,3v 21a seems to high? What 3.3&5v 120w? It's less than combined 3.3 +5v 154w !

 

can someone tell me how old psu are more unstable, I,e, ripples and other stuff... are they bad for modern computer parts-

but modern motherboard advertise to have excellent circuit protections, I.e, 12 power phases, 5 voltage controllers, etc... (tech terms that I have no idea) 

How much protection do they offer, like premium x370 mobo?

if a psu failure cause mobo, cpu, hdd, ram, etc... to fry? Are they protected by warranties?

 

I wouldn't be able to tell the manufacturer but even if i would, not sure it would matter as i suspect the label is lying about what the power supply can do.

 

It's very rare that a power supply will provide more than 3A on 5vSB (5v stand-by), a circuit which is always on inside the power supply, and  gives the computer a bit of power even when it's turned off. Anything above 3A makes this circuit more expensive and typically you only see that in 850-1000w or bigger power supplies.

Then, the label says the power supply has two 12v rails, each capable of giving up to 19A to the components.

If this is even true, then the psu can give 2 x 19A x 12v = 456w of power to components on 12v. But, I suspect while each individual rail has a top limit of 19A, the power supply isn't "designed" to output the peak on both rails at same time, let's say a total of 32-35A (or around 380-400w) would be a reasonable number on labels of brand name power supplies.

The other things aren't uncommon... the label says there's a power budget of 120w which can be used to produce 3.3v and 5v, and you can think of it like two mini power supplies that can each produce up to some amount of current, but together they can only use as much power as the budget allows.

So you can have 3.3v at up to 21A (~70w) and 5v up to 17A (85w) but there's a top cap at 120w. 

These are reasonable values like i said, and even if the label lies I would still expect the power supply to be capable of at least 15A on 3.3v or 5v - and that's still more than what modern computers use.

 

So overall, from the label i would say it looks more like a 420-450w power supply, not a 600w one... but without seeing the insides i couldn't really say. Could be really crap inside

The lack of UL numbers, typos on label, smells-like-fake-speaks are not promising.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, pomkon said:

40*12 =480 , but 12v*18A*4rails = 864?

 

whats wrong with giving 432W from its 500w rating? its just not as high?

 

Im listening and trying to learn

OH MY GOD!!!! NO!!! THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS!!!!!!

 

FFS!!!!  I know you're a noob, but you seem to want to be spoon fed.  Your PSU is crap.  Bottom line.  And it can't deliver 864W on the +12V rail.

 

OCP stands for over current protection.  It's the rating that defines the limit of power that can be delivered down to a connector or good of connectors.  It does NOT represent the maximum +12V capability of the PSU.  You can have a PSU that can only do 240W (20A) on the +12V rail.  They can then split that into two "rails".   They can then put a "cap" of 18A on each of those "rails" so once more than 18A of power attempts to traverse that circuit, the PSU shuts off.

 

Maybe this will help you understand the single vs. multiple +12V rail thing and how you don't just add up the "rails":  http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990

 

Bottom line about your PSU:

 

It's a mystery PSU.  Even the actual output is a mystery.  That means the manufacturer has something to hide or makes their living off of fooling the customer.

 

It has fake certifications.  It's not even rated to work in the country they're targeting sale to.

 

What more do you need to know?
 

And yes... Your motherboard died.  Could it be because of the PSU?  Absolutely.  You have to remember:  When you have a poor PSU, the end result of this is not the PSU dying prematurely, the the PSU providing such poor quality power that IT KILLS EVERYTHING THAT IT POWERS.

[pomkon]

19 hours ago, mariushm said:

I wouldn't be able to tell the manufacturer but even if i would, not sure it would matter as i suspect the label is lying about what the power supply can do.

 

It's very rare that a power supply will provide more than 3A on 5vSB (5v stand-by), a circuit which is always on inside the power supply, and  gives the computer a bit of power even when it's turned off. Anything above 3A makes this circuit more expensive and typically you only see that in 850-1000w or bigger power supplies.

Then, the label says the power supply has two 12v rails, each capable of giving up to 19A to the components.

If this is even true, then the psu can give 2 x 19A x 12v = 456w of power to components on 12v. But, I suspect while each individual rail has a top limit of 19A, the power supply isn't "designed" to output the peak on both rails at same time, let's say a total of 32-35A (or around 380-400w) would be a reasonable number on labels of brand name power supplies.

The other things aren't uncommon... the label says there's a power budget of 120w which can be used to produce 3.3v and 5v, and you can think of it like two mini power supplies that can each produce up to some amount of current, but together they can only use as much power as the budget allows.

So you can have 3.3v at up to 21A (~70w) and 5v up to 17A (85w) but there's a top cap at 120w. 

These are reasonable values like i said, and even if the label lies I would still expect the power supply to be capable of at least 15A on 3.3v or 5v - and that's still more than what modern computers use.

 

So overall, from the label i would say it looks more like a 420-450w power supply, not a 600w one... but without seeing the insides i couldn't really say. Could be really crap inside

The lack of UL numbers, typos on label, smells-like-fake-speaks are not promising.

 

I found ur writings the easiest to read and understand. Most other posts left me confused .

[pomkon]

18 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

What more do you need to know?
 

I read the link. You didnt have to say bottom line twice. I asked many questions because I want to know and understand. There are ppl who just want quick answers, they dont keep asking questions like i did.

[pomkon]

On 02/09/2017 at 8:39 PM, Stefan Payne said:

If the unit has multiple +12V rails, like a be quiet Straight Power 10, 500W you have 4 Rails:

40A combined on +12V (480W) but has 4 Rails with 18A each -> 72A.

An example of a bad unit is the 500W version of the FSP Aurum Gold. it has two +12V rails with 18A each, combined 432W -> 36A.

[

 

this is a bad unit that u described. someone just bought it for 13usd

[Stefan Payne]

17 minutes ago, pomkon said:

[

 

this is a bad unit that u described. someone just bought it for 13usd

Yes and ancient.

 

According to datecode it looks like something like 10th Week 2009 - 8 Years old...

 

And such old things are prone to failure and should NOT be bought or used for modern computers.

[ben_hk]

Came upon this thread trying to find info about my own mysterious "Red Ghost" power supply.

 

I'm also in Hong Kong and this was also purchased around 2013. Thanks to the advice here I'll try to replace it ASAP. I got a shock once touching the VGA cable, not sure if this explains it...