The NSA tracks peoples' porn habits in order to discredit "radicalizers"

[mr moose]

*sighs* Another "leak" from that asshole Snowden. I really wish this guy would shut up, and realize what damage he is doing to us all. But alas, not going to happen.

Do you work for the NSA?

 

I don't believe that at all, the government is voted in to govern on the peoples behalf, not behind their backs.   The only exception I have to this is where releasing information puts a the lives of agents at risk.

[afa7336]

Yeah, the horrible damage of exposing what tax dollars are being used for. We don't want that happening, right?

I guess it's true what they say, ignorance is bliss.

 

So, why don't we show what every apparatus of every intelligence agency is doing? I mean, fudge keeping us safe, right? Lets just let every citizen know what they are spending their tax money on.

 

Lets not care how many people could be saved. Lets not care about the lives that would be lost by outing such information. Lets not worry about the damage that is done by exposing such information. Lets not worry at all about losing access to information which is valuable and can stop terrorist acts or god for bid WAR. Just so you and everyone knows what is going on, right?

 

Are you serious?

 

Very serious.

 

Do you work for the NSA?

 

I don't believe that at all, the government is voted in to govern on the peoples behalf, not behind their backs.   The only exception I have to this is where releasing information puts a the lives of agents at risk.

 

I am not employed by the NSA. The problem I have is releasing information isn't just about putting lives at risk. How about this hypothetical, I found a way to extract information from Iran, no lives were placed at risk and its a valuable tunnel into their nuclear program. Do you believe exposing such information to the public and drying up that valuable tunnel (because they will then know of the leak and shut it down) is worth it, so we all know about it, and risk possible war or worse?

 

I wish people would look at the bigger picture instead of saying me want to know secrets. Trust me, knowing secrets isn't fun.

[afa7336]

Yeah, shame on him for risking his life for the American citizens that deem him a traitor for merely lifting the curtain of lies that lulled the populous into a false sense of security. Shame on you Snowden for having the best interest of the American people in mind rather than the interest of the government's draconian regimes and policies.

Some people on this forum

 

Snowden is a criminal, and a traitor in every sense of the word. Period, there is NO disputing that. He had options, instead of going public right away, that he FAILED to use. That can't and shouldn't be disputed, because its actual fact, and if you want, I will again c&p the relevant law and information on where he could have gone (because I've done it on other threads time and again.) You can call him a hero, fine, but he is nothing more then a criminal and traitor.

[mr moose]

So, why don't we show what every apparatus of every intelligence agency is doing? I mean, fudge keeping us safe, right? Lets just let every citizen know what they are spending their tax money on.

 

Lets not care how many people could be saved. Lets not care about the lives that would be lost by outing such information. Lets not worry about the damage that is done by exposing such information. Lets not worry at all about losing access to information which is valuable and can stop terrorist acts or god for bid WAR. Just so you and everyone knows what is going on, right?

 

 

Very serious.

 

 

I am not employed by the NSA. The problem I have is releasing information isn't just about putting lives at risk. How about this hypothetical, I found a way to extract information from Iran, no lives were placed at risk and its a valuable tunnel into their nuclear program. Do you believe exposing such information to the public and drying up that valuable tunnel (because they will then know of the leak and shut it down) is worth it, so we all know about it, and risk possible war or worse?

 

I wish people would look at the bigger picture instead of saying me want to know secrets. Trust me, knowing secrets isn't fun.

If it was only about foreign intelligence then no one would bother whistle blowing and no-one would care.  But it isn't, it's about breaking a few laws on home soil, and that is what the people have a right to know about.

[beebskadoo]

So, why don't we show what every apparatus of every intelligence agency is doing? I mean, fudge keeping us safe, right? Lets just let every citizen know what they are spending their tax money on.

 

Lets not care how many people could be saved. Lets not care about the lives that would be lost by outing such information. Lets not worry about the damage that is done by exposing such information. Lets not worry at all about losing access to information which is valuable and can stop terrorist acts or god for bid WAR. Just so you and everyone knows what is going on, right?

 

 

Very serious.

 

 

I am not employed by the NSA. The problem I have is releasing information isn't just about putting lives at risk. How about this hypothetical, I found a way to extract information from Iran, no lives were placed at risk and its a valuable tunnel into their nuclear program. Do you believe exposing such information to the public and drying up that valuable tunnel (because they will then know of the leak and shut it down) is worth it, so we all know about it, and risk possible war or worse?

 

I wish people would look at the bigger picture instead of saying me want to know secrets. Trust me, knowing secrets isn't fun.

See here's where you're wrong. You think that exposing government trickery will somehow fall back on the citizens, that is entirely false. The only ones at risk are the politicians that put this in to effect. Their jobs, not their lives. What is insane is the amount of lying and back door shit that is going on for no reason. It's not working, all it's doing is creating a police state.

This is all especially funny due to the whole 'government transparency' bullshit that both parties claim to support. Not to transparent eh?.............actually now it is....some guy named Snowden changed that a bit...

[beebskadoo]

Snowden is a criminal, and a traitor in every sense of the word. Period, there is NO disputing that. He had options, instead of going public right away, that he FAILED to use. That can't and shouldn't be disputed, because its actual fact, and if you want, I will again c&p the relevant law and information on where he could have gone (because I've done it on other threads time and again.) You can call him a hero, fine, but he is nothing more then a criminal and traitor.

Please please please pretty please stop watching Fox News. It's poisoning your brain. Snowden did what should have been done, transparency. Are Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft and other tech companies that are calling for transparency also traitors? you sir are a silly goose.

[beebskadoo]

If it was only about foreign intelligence then no one would bother whistle blowing and no-one would care.  But it isn't, it's about breaking a few laws on home soil, and that is what the people have a right to know about.

I mean look at how the US spied on the Germans....How the hell is that helping the US?

BTW The Germans didn't know about it....

But it's fine, big government has the interests of the population in mind and have never had a track record of straying from common decency. 

[mr moose]

I mean look at how the US spied on the Germans....How the hell is that helping the US?

BTW The Germans didn't know about it....

But it's fine, big government has the interests of the population in mind and have never had a track record of straying from common decency. 

True, although I was thinking mainly of countries that pose an actuall threat, like North Korea, Iran etc, not allies with signed trade agreements etc.

[beebskadoo]

True, although I was thinking mainly of countries that pose an actuall threat, like North Korea, Iran etc, not allies with signed trade agreements etc.

We seem to think that spying is fair game. The world is our toilet.

[afa7336]

Please please please pretty please stop watching Fox News. It's poisoning your brain. Snowden did what should have been done, transparency. Are Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft and other tech companies that are calling for transparency also traitors? you sir are a silly goose.

 

I love how you automatically went to Fox News. Lets try this on for size, because I think you aren't as educated on this issue as I might be. This has nothing to do with any news agency, these are actually facts that can't be disputed further and it shows little regard that people don't care.

 

18 USC § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

 

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—

(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or

(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or

(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or

(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

( B) As used in subsection (a) of this section—

The term “classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

© Nothing in this section shall prohibit the furnishing, upon lawful demand, of information to any regularly constituted committee of the Senate or House of Representatives of the United States of America, or joint committee thereof.

(d)

(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—

(A) any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and

( B) any of the person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.

(2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1).

(3) Except as provided in paragraph (4), the provisions of subsections ( B), ©, and (e) through (p) ofsection 413 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853 ( B), ©, and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—

(A) property subject to forfeiture under this subsection;

( B) any seizure or disposition of such property; and

© any administrative or judicial proceeding in relation to such property,

if not inconsistent with this subsection.

(4) Notwithstanding section 524 © of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.

(5) As used in this subsection, the term “State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United States.

 

There is the legal stuff, now as for where he could have gone? You might want to look into the ICWPA or even the DoD IG and a link to such information can be found at the following: http://www.dodig.mil/programs/whistleblower/icwpa.html

 

Edit: Might want to also look into the Defense Intelligence Community Whistleblower Program, but since Snowden failed to even attempt to use any of the available means, they weren't used and NO ONE knows, they think he had no choice, which is blatantly FALSE!

[beebskadoo]

 

I love how you automatically went to Fox News. Lets try this on for size, because I think you aren't as educated on this issue as I might be. This has nothing to do with any news agency, these are actually facts that can't be disputed further and it shows little regard that people don't care.

 

18 USC § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

 

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—

(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or

(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or

(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or

(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

( B) As used in subsection (a) of this section—

The term “classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;

The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;

The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;

The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

© Nothing in this section shall prohibit the furnishing, upon lawful demand, of information to any regularly constituted committee of the Senate or House of Representatives of the United States of America, or joint committee thereof.

(d)

(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—

(A) any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and

( B) any of the person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.

(2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1).

(3) Except as provided in paragraph (4), the provisions of subsections ( B), ©, and (e) through (p) ofsection 413 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853 ( B), ©, and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—

(A) property subject to forfeiture under this subsection;

( B) any seizure or disposition of such property; and

© any administrative or judicial proceeding in relation to such property,

if not inconsistent with this subsection.

(4) Notwithstanding section 524 © of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.

(5) As used in this subsection, the term “State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United States.

 

There is the legal stuff, now as for where he could have gone? You might want to look into the ICWPA or even the DoD IG and a link to such information can be found at the following: http://www.dodig.mil/programs/whistleblower/icwpa.html

 

In my eyes and the eyes of many people, he is a hero. the world is a better place now that we know we are being constantly watched. 

Get at me bro. Viva La internet!

[Timmyfox]

Let's all watch midget and tentacle porn to confuse them.

You're implying that there's people that don't watch these kinds of things?

 

whoever monitors me is probably a kinky motherfucker then

Awww yea~

 

...I wonder if the videos on youtube of dogs and other animals mating is considered porn...

[Snickerzz]

HAHA joke's on them!

I'm into people watching me

 

 

 

jk

[Snickerzz]

You're implying that there's people that don't watch these kinds of things?

 

Awww yea~

[beebskadoo]

[Camul]

Considering I just made a post with a few of sexual fetishes, I say, go ahead. There isn't anything about what I like that I feel guilty or ashamed about.

[Theo]

*sighs* Another "leak" from that asshole Snowden. I really wish this guy would shut up, and realize what damage he is doing to us all. But alas, not going to happen.

hahahah OMG HE EXPOSES WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING WITHOUT THE POPULATION KNOWING? 

Such wow 

Much rude

He should commit sudoku 

You should also rethink what damage actually is and that the US gov isnt an angel as you probably think, also they dont go to war to spread democracy everything ( just in case you thought that )

[OneGun]

Kinda better knowing someone is watching...Giggity Giggity 

[Timmyfox]

The awkward moment when I realize that you're a horse...

And I'm a little fennec...

 

...And now lets stop there before this goes too far.

[LAwLz]

So, why don't we show what every apparatus of every intelligence agency is doing? I mean, fudge keeping us safe, right? Lets just let every citizen know what they are spending their tax money on.

 

Lets not care how many people could be saved. Lets not care about the lives that would be lost by outing such information. Lets not worry about the damage that is done by exposing such information. Lets not worry at all about losing access to information which is valuable and can stop terrorist acts or god for bid WAR. Just so you and everyone knows what is going on, right?

Yes please. I would be happy if federal agencies showed what they spend money on. The money is taken from people, with no choice (via taxes, which I am by the way not against I think taxes are good), and then the money is used to spy on them as much as possible. if they want to take money then they should also have the decency to tell everyone what it is being spent on. Not this "Yeah you must pay me money, but I won't tell you what I am going to spend it on. Maybe I'll spend it on spying on you? Who knows..."

 

About the whole "let's not care about how many people could be saved" part... Yes, some info should be kept secrets. Things like how many requests the NSA sends to Google is not one of those things, because there is absolutely no harm whatsoever in knowing that. I posted this as a reply to you in some other thread but you haven't replied so I'll just repost it.

 

 

 

54 Total, 13 that directly impacted the United States. But thats just the stuff we actually know about, considering some information won't and can't come out.

Edit: Which by averages, since we know the meat of the program started up in 2008, I will show you per year stopped.

Total Average Per Year Worldwide: 10.8 per year

Total Average Per Year US: 2.6 stopped per year

It seems like those 54 and 13 numbers are pulled out of thin air, and the real number since 2008 is actually 1, and it wasn't even an attack. It was just someone that tried to donate money to a terrorist organization.

Source: TechDirt, HuffingtonPost and some other websites.

Giving up basically all privacy just to stop someone from donating 5000 dollars to a terrorist organization? No, I don't think it's worth it. I don't like your whole "well would it be worth it to save the lives of your family members?" argument either. Not even 3000 people died during 9/11, and it happened 12 years ago. Want to know the risk of dying from a terrorist attack if you live in the US? It's 1 in 20,000,000. You are 1048 times as likely to die in a car accident than in a terrorist attack. Should be ban cars? Walking is worth it if your family isn't killed, right? Hell, in 2013 more people in the US were killed by toddlers than killed by terrorists.

You also have to think of the cost of all this spying. Not just moral cost and throwing the 4:th amendment out the window, but also the monetary cost. The US infrastructure is, to put it bluntly, shit. The medicare benefits are terrible. The school system is really bad and the average American is very uneducated compared to a lot of other countries.

Since you like putting it in terms of "do you want X or Y" without any middle ground let me ask you this. Do you want to spend fortunes in order to lower the already extremely low risk of terrorist attacks, throwing the 4:th amendment out the window along with your privacy, or do you want a better education system, better health of all Americans, better infrastructure and privacy? There isn't even any solid evidence that all this spying has lead to anything.

 

Your whole argument boils down to "The NSA HAS to spy on everyone, all the time, in order to stop terrorists. If they don't do it, then people will DIE" which is simply not true and there is absolutely no factual evidence to support that idea.

[beebskadoo]

hahahah OMG HE EXPOSES WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING WITHOUT THE POPULATION KNOWING? 

Such wow 

Much rude

He should commit sudoku 

You should also rethink what damage actually is and that the US gov isnt an angel as you probably think, also they dont go to war to spread democracy everything ( just in case you thought that )

Hey, don't mess with that guy! He's got Ctrl+V + Ctrl+P information that will blow off that tinfoil hat of yours....

[beebskadoo]

Considering I just made a post with a few of sexual fetishes, I say, go ahead. There isn't anything about what I like that I feel guilty or ashamed about.

Interesting....

[Snickerzz]

The awkward moment when I realize that you're a horse...

And I'm a little fennec...

 

...And now lets stop there before this goes too far.

dont get yourself banned

[Theo]

Considering I just made a post with a few of sexual fetishes, I say, go ahead. There isn't anything about what I like that I feel guilty or ashamed about.

Are you also into bucakes? ( i dont feel like posting the real spelling lol )

[Camul]

Are you also into bucakes? ( i dont feel like posting the real spelling lol )

Sure, it seems fun no matter what end of it you're on.