Improve 5GHZ range buying new router?

[Tiz]

Hello everyone. I'll try to be concise.

 

My current router is TP-Link AC1750 Archer C7

I try to cover 2 floors, but in the farthest points of the floors the 5ghz drops horribly. My question is if does anybody knows if a better router like ASUS RT-AC5300 would improve range of the 5ghz network?

 

Thanks!

 

P.D. Yes, I know about access point and all that, but I need the same access point for everyone so... 1 router only. Also yes, my router is already in the middle of the stairs for maximum reach of both floors.

[jj9987]

You can set two access points with same SSID, encryption and password and the devices will connect to either one just fine.

[JoostinOnline]

Use 2.4GHz mode if you want better range.  5GHz has a bigger problem going through walls. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by JoostinOnline

[Tiz]

12 minutes ago, jj9987 said:

You can set two access points with same SSID, encryption and password and the devices will connect to either one just fine.

I tried that but Windows, iOS and Android won't drop the connection until it gets really bad. Yes, there are some apps to drop the connection and reconnect, but ends up just being a mess and not reliable. 

 

Using 2.4ghz for me is not an option, I just need to know if someone tried to use a more expensive router and if that improved at least a bit, but thanks.

 

[CFstorm]

1 hour ago, jj9987 said:

You can set two access points with same SSID, encryption and password and the devices will connect to either one just fine.

Not necessarily true. You will just be stuck with a bad connection before your device drops it and switches to the other. This is not recommended; However, I would suggest using Ubiquity's gear. They have a mesh networking setup for only $89 per node. This setup is something I use and works very well. Mesh is a form of repeaters, but they are all "hard-wired" to your networking stuff via cable to give you the same speed on both sides of the house. Also, it will automatically manage the IP Addresses attached to them and reroute them accordingly. If you are in the US find them here:

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499087150&sr=8-1&keywords=ac+mesh

 

[Tiz]

21 minutes ago, CFstorm said:

Not necessarily true. You will just be stuck with a bad connection before your device drops it and switches to the other. This is not recommended; However, I would suggest using Ubiquity's gear. They have a mesh networking setup for only $89 per node. This setup is something I use and works very well. Mesh is a form of repeaters, but they are all "hard-wired" to your networking stuff via cable to give you the same speed on both sides of the house. Also, it will automatically manage the IP Addresses attached to them and reroute them accordingly. If you are in the US find them here:

https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499087150&sr=8-1&keywords=ac+mesh

 

Hmm, that sounds interesting, no idea how that works, never heard of it, gonna do some researching about it, thanks a lot CFstorm!

[mynameisjuan]

Either use 2.4 or another AP.

 

People dont realize that wifi is bidirectional. If your router cant reach your device properly then there is a good chance your device can reach the router, buying a more powerful router will not fix the issue as the device is still not able to talk back.

[Tiz]

I've been reading about Ubiquiti and seems exactly what I needed (not very useful everyone saying switch to 2.4 ghz BTW but I appreciate the effort anyways)

 

So I'll be ordering about 3 of Ubiquiti Pro.

 

In case anyone else wants to know more, this article from ArsTechnica is very informative.

 

Although I have a question for CFstorm: what about a download? In the article explains how well it does with video streaming and video calls if Ubiquiti switches you into another AP, but all of that can handle little drops of packets, I wonder about a simple download? I can't seem to find anyone talking specifically about what happens when you're downloading something and then you switch AP.

 

Thanks everyone

[JoostinOnline]

6 hours ago, Tiz said:

Using 2.4ghz for me is not an option,

Won't push you, but why?

[GW2]

4 hours ago, Tiz said:

I've been reading about Ubiquiti and seems exactly what I needed (not very useful everyone saying switch to 2.4 ghz BTW but I appreciate the effort anyways)

 

So I'll be ordering about 3 of Ubiquiti Pro.

 

In case anyone else wants to know more, this article from ArsTechnica is very informative.

 

Although I have a question for CFstorm: what about a download? In the article explains how well it does with video streaming and video calls if Ubiquiti switches you into another AP, but all of that can handle little drops of packets, I wonder about a simple download? I can't seem to find anyone talking specifically about what happens when you're downloading something and then you switch AP.

 

Thanks everyone

I use the UAP AC LR for my home use as i like the extended range. not sure the difference between AC PRO & AC LR but man do they ever work great!

[Tiz]

3 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Won't push you, but why?

Speed. Even in the current low speed of my 5ghz, is still better than 2.4ghz, but I need more speed and more reliable, so Ubiquiti seems perfect, main reason why I'll choose Pro instead of LR.

[JoostinOnline]

5 minutes ago, Tiz said:

Speed. Even in the current low speed of my 5ghz, is still better than 2.4ghz, but I need more speed and more reliable, so Ubiquiti seems perfect, main reason why I'll choose Pro instead of LR.

Ah.  Most people only use their WiFi for Internet, so there isn't any difference between 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

[Tiz]

1 hour ago, JoostinOnline said:

Ah.  Most people only use their WiFi for Internet, so there isn't any difference between 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

Oh no this is not about browsing Facebook, maybe I should've specified just for the sake of it, but basically me and my wife work with big files from a local server -we work with laptops, I use a Razer Blade and she uses a Dell 9560-, and we usually don't like too much to be stuck inside the studio too much so we move around the house, so you can imagine then why the 5ghz.

There are 4 rooms that we usually use: the living room, the studio, another room that has a nice desktop setup so we plug in with USBc and another studio room for me to compose music, and even sometimes we use the terrace when there's nice weather... So yeah, 5ghz is pretty much the only option.

[skywake]

15 hours ago, jj9987 said:

You can set two access points with same SSID, encryption and password and the devices will connect to either one just fine.

This is the best answer BTW. The answer currently marked as best is a bit off the mark. Technically the current best answer claims to disagree with this and then essentially advocates for the literally same thing but at an unnecessarily higher cost.

15 hours ago, Tiz said:

I tried that but Windows, iOS and Android won't drop the connection until it gets really bad. Yes, there are some apps to drop the connection and reconnect, but ends up just being a mess and not reliable. 

Different clients behave differently and some applications are more sensitive to breaks in the connection than others. Also sometimes some APs don't play well when you try to use this kind of setup.

 

The last thing to note is that if one of your APs is playing up you can get really strange behaviour that's hard to diagnose in a setup with multiple APs. For example if one AP is refusing to let devices connect and has the same SSID/PW? Your devices will disconnect from the other AP and try to connect to the broken AP constantly. Which will drive you insane because it will work fine sometimes but at other times it'll get stuck in a loop. This can happen with any multi-ap setup.

 

Ubiquiti has gear that's generally better than the stuff you'll usually find on the shelf. It's also designed to play nice with a setup that has multiple APs. That's the only reason why Ubiquiti gear gets the praise it does. It's not really doing something different it's just not garbage.

[Tiz]

@skywake

I already tried AP with the same SSID and password, also tried AP with the different SSID so I'd know which one I'm connected to. That usually works for more normal uses like, again, browsing facebook, but if you want full speed all the time you need to head for additional software solutions that drop the connection when weak, and that didn't work very well at the end of the day. With all respect, the marked solution is perfect, telling me to do what I already tried and didn't work is not a solution... although again, I thank anyone trying to help, but CFstorm solution was perfect.

[skywake]

@Tiz

Well sure, and I did say that throwing two random APs together can be a recipe for disaster. But if you're buying AC Pros then you're following the advice of @jj9987 not @CFstorm. Just to be clear and to also be a bit technical for a second the first comment suggested that you get a second AP and do this:

 

ESS = multiple APs with a single SSID/PW

 

Then @CFstorm came in and said "no that's wrong, you don't want a single ESS. What you need to do is this":

to which you said "that sounds like a great idea", marked it as the best answer and then linked to a product designed for the former

[Tiz]

@skywake

Mesh points are not the same as standard AP, so yeah, I still give the credit to @CFstorm

 

[skywake]

41 minutes ago, Tiz said:

@skywake

Mesh points are not the same as standard AP, so yeah, I still give the credit to @CFstorm

 

For small deployments they are and even if they were the APs you said you were interested in are not mesh APs. I'm not trying to win an argument here I'm just trying to give you decent advice. I'd strongly suggest you watch this video if you want a better understanding of why I'm being hard on @CFstorm's comments:

 

[Tiz]

@skywake

So I watched that video and then this, and maybe I'm dumb, but to me it seems they are saying it does exactly what I want: Cover a large area with high speed wifi that let you jump between points when the connection is weak. The AP I've tried wouldn't let my connection drop and yet my speed would be awful unless I was close to the APs.

 

Am I not understanding something? Both videos and also this article look like it does exactly that.

 

Thanks for your help.

[skywake]

50 minutes ago, Tiz said:

@skywake

So I watched that video and then this, and maybe I'm dumb, but to me it seems they are saying it does exactly what I want: Cover a large area with high speed wifi that let you jump between points when the connection is weak. The AP I've tried wouldn't let my connection drop and yet my speed would be awful unless I was close to the APs.

 

Am I not understanding something? Both videos and also this article look like it does exactly that.

 

Thanks for your help.

Let me brake it down a bit because there are very specific things being said in those videos and the article. Again, definitions....

 

BSS -> Single AP + Clients
ESS -> Multiple APs with same SSID/PW

 

The video Linus did and the article talk about Zero Handoff feature which is a way to effectively have multiple APs behave as a single BSS. But in both cases they didn't actually use the feature. To be blunt Zero Handoff isn't worth the effort because with a decent clients will happily roam between APs within the same ESS. What they are impressed about in both cases was the quality of Ubiquiti's gear in comparison to the WiFi you usually get from TPLink, Asus, Netgear or DLink. In other words they got better APs and instead of using the feature designed to improve roaming they....

On 03/07/2017 at 7:29 PM, jj9987 said:

set two access points with same SSID, encryption and password and the devices will connect to either one just fine.

 

The video I linked to talks about mesh which is an entirely different thing again. As far as your device is concerned a mesh network is just a bunch of APs under the same ESS. Better roaming doesn't even come into it with a mesh setup. A mesh setup is simply designed to be an alternative to physically wiring up your APs. Is it a good alternative? Well no. A mesh setup, especially for small setups, runs into the same problems that repeaters do. The only reason it exists is because 1. people buy them and 2. there are some (niche) cases where it's the only option. Mesh is best for when you want decent and stable coverage fast and don't particularly care about performance. Those WiFi speakers use that sort of setup for that very reason.

Do I like Ubiquiti APs? Yes. Do I think that mesh and zero handoff are worth the hype? No. If you want a good and fast WiFi setup you should do three things. Run Ethernet to all the APs you have, have the right number of access points set to the same SSID/PW and try to avoid using WiFi when possible.

[CFstorm]

On 7/3/2017 at 9:29 AM, Tiz said:

Hmm, that sounds interesting, no idea how that works, never heard of it, gonna do some researching about it, thanks a lot CFstorm!

No problem! I'm glad to help! 

[GW2]

Mesh (the unif) is the proper solution, using two WAPs which aren't aware of each other leads to it never getting handed off. I don't know what clients skywake is working with, but for me personally this has NEVER worked. If you buy two identical routers and connect one on an upper floor and another on a lower floor, if the device is still connected to the lower AP it will not hand itself over to the other AP. I find wifi clients hang onto their AP very aggressively, even to the point where performance degrades severely or even completely. The mesh unifi network solves all of these problem, and it a set it and forget solution. I frequently setup Unifi's for Partners at the companies I server by setting them up from home and then installing them with no unifi controller on site, after setup they run themselves, no need for the controller. For the price you'd be nuts to go with anything else, it's just so easy and convenient.

[Rune]

Yeah, mesh networking is not the same as getting multiple APs and naming them the same SSID. Handoffs will be jittery at best. The Amplifi HD from ubiquiti or the Velop (x2?) from Linksys would be a much better and easier to set up solution.

[Tiz]

Thanks @GW2 and @Rune , I was starting to think I didn't understand anything. @GW2 is describing exactly what I tested, my clients would not let go away the weak signal of the first SSID they catched, and using software solutions like Swifi for Android were horrible (for example, in many cases Android wouldn't change wifi unless you wake up the screen). It was very unreliable and horrible overall, missing important emails and stuff.

 

Thank you all, I'll be buying some of them in a couple of days once I figure out exactly a plan to where I'm gonna put them, probably will get 3 of them for the entire house.

[GW2]

It's because the APs are not aware of each other, I don't want to be rude or anything because I'm far from a network expert, but I really don't think Skywake knows what he's talking about in this situation (I'm sorry Skywake, I'm poor at phrasing things nicely). Maybe that works if you buy devices which are ONLY WAPs (like the unifi) but two router/WAP combos will not play nice together like that.

 

@skywake

I beg of you! Please make me look like an idiot for my harsh words. If this is as possible as you say I'd really love to get it working in that way with two routers, even just as an experiment.