Apple iMac Pro - Up to 18core Xeon, 128Gb ECC, AMD VEGA - Discuss.

[Guest lilbman]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

This is neither a court, a case, or the world. 

 

No, it is simply a flame thread on a forum largely biased against everything Apple. 

 

But like you say, 

 

"The world runs on technicalities" 

You see them as flame threads, I see it as constructive criticism for the men and women over at Apple.

[PlayStation 2]

What most people aren't realizing here is the form factor of the damn thing. Not only is it an all-in-one, it's an all-in-one with a 5K display, so you're already dumping a considerable amount just for that. And true, maybe a 4K screen would be more practical for some, but when you boil it all down, the base configuration isn't very overpriced.

[Pendragon]

 

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Planned obsolescence is everywhere in capitalism. 

 

Phones, Computers, Cars, Fridges, etc. 

 

Planned obsolescence only works in certain industries. 

 

Phones: 100%. If you want the newest shit. 

Computers: Fuck no. Wtf? If Intel started soldering their chips to their motherboards like they proposed a few years ago people would be up in riots. same thing if intel and nvidia said fuck it lets soldered everything to 1 motherboard. that's apple. not computers.

Cars: uhhhh wtf? That's a long term big value purchase. Its not planned obsolescence. It's just stuff getting old. I really don't think you know what it means. Planned obsolescence would be a car that automatically fails in 5 years. That's planned.

Fridges: wtf? same reason as cars.

 

Imagine if watches were designed with planned obsolescence. how cancerous would that be. 

 

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

And I don't have a problem with it, but @Pendragon isn't seeing where it takes place everywhere else, just in Apple. 

 

No? Apple has planned obsolesces for the most stupid reasons. Also if you were aware of my positions in the laptop industry, in general, is that I bash BGA chips for being bga for no reason. 2 generations ago we had MQ chips that were fine. 

 

Laptops are also planned obsolesces. Big fucking problem. Some things should be, some things aren't. Computers shouldn't be. At least not desktop ones. I've given up on laptops returning to upgradability. 

 

9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

sounds like an OS I wouldn't want to use. 

 

then don't? nobody is stopping you. nobody is stopping you from making it good either. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

What most people aren't realizing here is the form factor of the damn thing. Not only is it an all-in-one, it's an all-in-one with a 5K display, so you're already dumping a considerable amount just for that. And true, maybe a 4K screen would be more practical for some, but when you boil it all down, the base configuration isn't very overpriced.

And not just a 5K screen, but a professional grade 5K screen. You're going to have to find a Ultrasharp or the equivalent tier of another brand if you want to start really comparing the displays.

[Pendragon]

18 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

What most people aren't realizing here is the form factor of the damn thing. Not only is it an all-in-one, it's an all-in-one with a 5K display, so you're already dumping a considerable amount just for that. And true, maybe a 4K screen would be more practical for some, but when you boil it all down, the base configuration isn't very overpriced.

 

8 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

And not just a 5K screen, but a professional grade 5K screen. You're going to have to find a Ultrasharp or the equivalent tier of another brand if you want to start really comparing the displays.

no we get that. but nobody factored in that this 5k display isn't going to be usable for ANYTHING else. It's not like a regular display where you get a new computer and voila still works. 

 

5k displays that are apple quality good go for around 1.5k to 2k right now. So say you get 3k to build a comparable machine.

 

Some needs to spec out proposed BASE imac pro.

 

8 core - 5960x

memory - 32gb ecc (they aren't going to spec this at 16gb are they?)

gpu - assume top end vega competes with top end pascal. assume amd releases 3 products like they did for the fury. top end one competes with titan xp and 1080ti, we have a midrange one that competes with 1080, and a "nano" that competes with the 1070. lets assume they put the mid range one in a 1080 equivalent generous yes?

lets ASSUME apple also gives us 1tb of nvme ssd (as if they ever will), but lets be generous here.

 

everything else spec properly. 

 

set aside like 200 bucks for peripherals and stuff. 

 

@Shiv78 @M.Yurizaki spec it out base for base please. not top end windows vs base imac pro.

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

 

no we get that. but nobody factored in that this 5k display isn't going to be usable for ANYTHING else. It's not like a regular display where you get a new computer and voila still works. 

 

In a professional environment where you would be buying one of these, you're likely to have the latest and greatest, and I'd assume you'd apply the same to displays, so really I don't see how that argument would work in your favor.

[Pendragon]

Just now, Dan Castellaneta said:

In a professional environment where you would be buying one of these, you're likely to have the latest and greatest, and I'd assume you'd apply the same to displays, so really I don't see how that argument would work in your favor.

i dont get this. 

 

I'm saying that when new hardware comes along, say volta. you can't 

a) get a volta computer and use the imac display

b) upgrade imac pro to volta.

 

that's what i'm saying

 

whereas if someone has a stand alone 5k dell ultrasharp or something they would be able to use the same display and save $1-2k on the upgrade. 

[PlayStation 2]

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

i dont get this. 

 

I'm saying that when new hardware comes along, say volta. you can't 

a) get a volta computer and use the imac display

b) upgrade imac pro to volta.

 

that's what i'm saying

 

whereas if someone has a stand alone 5k dell ultrasharp or something they would be able to use the same display and save $1-2k on the upgrade. 

Fair if you wanted to upgrade your PC, but as I said, in a professional environment, you're more than likely to get entirely new hardware across the board than to just upgrade what you have. In an environment where you'd be fine with upgrading your PC? More power to you (quite literally, potentially) but in a scenario when people buy all their stuff at once rather than just upgrading, a bunch of iMac Pros would likely be as good as a bunch of workstations in that environment, probably better as you'd lose less space in a desk area.

[Pendragon]

14 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

in a professional environment, you're more than likely to get entirely new hardware across the board than to just upgrade what you have. In an environment where you'd be fine with upgrading your PC? More power to you (quite literally, potentially) but in a scenario when people buy all their stuff at once rather than just upgrading, a bunch of iMac Pros would likely be as good as a bunch of workstations in that environment, probably better as you'd lose less space in a desk area.

that's fair as well. it depends on the firm culture and upgrade policy then. i know firms that swing either way where they enmass upgrade everything and leave it that way for a long time, and firms that do incremental upgrades for employees who need it. i work in one where we request for more hardware individually and a hardware procurement team + purchasing team in global head office assesses your needs and what you say you'll do with it.

 

i would argue that the imac pro would only truly suit marketing firms where there is a demand for high quality displays and powerful hardware to do the design and editing work. i dont actually know that many people developing on macos for gaming and vr (if any please let me know what large company develops on metal api or macos in general). So this would be more suited to video editors and HIGH HIGH end photowork.

 

Assuming that, my argument would be wouldn't they already have a high quality display? but yes i get your point regarding en masse upgrades. alot of firms upgrade once and leave it for years (our in house marketing firm is one), so I see the validity here. 

 

my point comes back around noting that yes it has a great display and i see your point regarding professional hardware refresh timelines, why not wait for the pro "upgradable (or so they say)" one upcoming next year? Wouldn't that be a better buy than this? Who is this product even for? If you already have a high end display, you'll just want a upgradable PC. If you work on MacOs then you might as well get the MacPro upcoming. This feels like Apple is trying to double charge professionals, the same way intel is doing with the Kaby Lake and Kaby Lake X lineup where they release the same product twice essentially. 

[DrMacintosh]

10 hours ago, Pendragon said:

 

no we get that. but nobody factored in that this 5k display isn't going to be usable for ANYTHING else. It's not like a regular display where you get a new computer and voila still works. 

 

5k displays that are apple quality good go for around 1.5k to 2k right now. So say you get 3k to build a comparable machine.

 

Some needs to spec out proposed BASE imac pro.

 

8 core - 5960x

memory - 32gb ecc (they aren't going to spec this at 16gb are they?)

gpu - assume top end vega competes with top end pascal. assume amd releases 3 products like they did for the fury. top end one competes with titan xp and 1080ti, we have a midrange one that competes with 1080, and a "nano" that competes with the 1070. lets assume they put the mid range one in a 1080 equivalent generous yes?

lets ASSUME apple also gives us 1tb of nvme ssd (as if they ever will), but lets be generous here.

 

everything else spec properly. 

 

set aside like 200 bucks for peripherals and stuff. 

 

@Shiv78 @M.Yurizaki spec it out base for base please. not top end windows vs base imac pro.

We have already parted out the base iMac. Building a PC can at most save you like $200 bucks. 

 

And the PC doesn't even have the full compliment of Thunderbolt 3 or a built in SD card

[Shiv78]

6 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

We have already parted out the base iMac. Building a PC can at most save you like $200 bucks. 

 

no, it's $500+ lol WITH a 16GB Quadro P5000 which has twice the VRAM of the base iMac Vega Pro

[Shiv78]

17 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Apple is far from a masses company. Thats Android, and they suffer for it.

Android is not a company. It's a goddamn OPERATING SYSTEM.

17 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

But yes that stat is very open ended, but the cooling will be better at least. 

Better cooling but more powerful hardware in the same body = likely same thermal throttling

 

17 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Planned obsolescence is everywhere in capitalism. 

 

Phones, Computers, Cars, Fridges, etc. 

What fridge has planned obsolescence? LOL

Also apple abuses their customers with planned obsolescence. Sure, Android phones stop updating after 3-4 years, but that's because Google and the OEMs know that the hardware is too slow. Apple keeps pushing iOS updates to older phones and just weighs them down (my iP4 on iOS7 was literally unusable but was OK on iOS6). Literally nothing in their newest laptops is upgradeable, even the storage. 

[DrMacintosh]

2 hours ago, Shiv78 said:

Literally nothing in their newest laptops is upgradeable, even the storage. 

where is the problem? 

[Mira Yurizaki]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

where is the problem? 

What if I wanted to upgrade something?

 

Welp, better go buy a new laptop.

[DrMacintosh]

 

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

What if I wanted to upgrade something?

 

Welp, better go buy a new laptop.

Again, whats the problem with that? Every manufacturer is doing it. Its a Laptop, not a desktop, you shouldn't expect to be able to upgrade much more than the RAM and storage which realistically won't impact your performance that much if you have enough RAM. 

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

What if I wanted to upgrade something?

 

Welp, better go buy a new laptop.

You say that as a joke, but for a lot of people they would have to do that anyway since much more than ram/storage isn't reasonable to expect regardless. I for one would never need a RAM/storage upgrade since I always get the max memory and I use very little local storage as I have everything on a NAS. 

[DrMacintosh]

7 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

What if I wanted to upgrade something?

Also if the thought of you wanting to upgrade it existed, that should have been in the mind of the person buying the laptop so they would know to get one that is designed to be opened. 

 

The MacBook line of laptops is not designed to be opened, if imaginary person x bought a MacBook and complained about not being able to upgrade it, that isn't Apples fault. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

12 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Again, whats the problem with that? Every manufacturer is doing it. Its a Laptop, not a desktop, you shouldn't expect to be able to upgrade much more than the RAM and storage which realistically won't impact your performance that much if you have enough RAM. 

Again, what if I want to upgrade? My only choice is to buy a new laptop? Why can't I spend no more than say a couple hundred to upgrade the one or two things I want than drop another $1000+ on a new laptop? And now I have a system that maybe nobody really wants because it's too old?

 

And "every manufacturer is doing it" is not a very good excuse. If every manufacturer is installing spyware on your machine, is that all right? If every manufacturer was installing NSA backdoors, is that okay?

 

5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Also if the thought of you wanting to upgrade it existed, that should have been in the mind of the person buying the laptop so they would know to get one that is designed to be opened. 

But I don't know what I want two years from now. Or even one year from now. I bought a gaming laptop because I thought high performance would be great and thought I could deal with the size and weight. But I couldn't. So I bought a Dell XPS 13 thinking I probably don't really play games on my laptop... but then I realized maybe I do want to play some games beyond basic ones so I got an Inspiron 15 7559. Now I found a happy medium.

 

What if I was someone who bought a 4GB MacBook and thought nothing of it, but then got into app development a year later and just want to upgrade the RAM and such? Well I can't. But I didn't know I actually wanted it.

 

Quote

The MacBook line of laptops is not designed to be opened, if imaginary person x bought a MacBook and complained about not being able to upgrade it, that isn't Apples fault. 

But that doesn't mean it's not a problem to some people.

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

And "every manufacturer is doing it" is not a very good excuse.

Unless you want to be a new manufacturer there isn't much you can do about it. 

 

3 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

But I don't know what I want two years from now. Or even one year from now. I bought a gaming laptop because I thought high performance would be great and thought I could deal with the size and weight. But I couldn't. So I bought a Dell XPS 13 thinking I probably don't really play games on my laptop... but then I realized maybe I do want to play some games beyond basic ones.

 

What if I was someone who bought a 4GB MacBook and thought nothing of it, but then got into app development a year later and just want to upgrade the RAM and such? Well I can't. But I didn't know I actually wanted it.

This whole thing can be best summed up with sweet sweet saying of good ol' capitalism 

 

"boo hoo" 

[Pendragon]

28 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Again, whats the problem with that? Every manufacturer is doing it

uhhh most manufacturers allow upgrades to ram, storage, wifi cards and the bare minimum. apple solders everything onboard so even if 1 thing fails ur fucked. 

 

also how did this switch to laptops? There is "slightly" less of an issue of laptops being upgradable than DESKTOPS not being able to like the iMac Pro. 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Pendragon said:

also how did this switch to laptops?

idk, he asked a hypothetical laptop question. 

[Shiv78]

50 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

uhhh most manufacturers allow upgrades to ram, storage, wifi cards and the bare minimum. apple solders everything onboard so even if 1 thing fails ur fucked. 

 

Yup

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

where is the problem? 

 

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

you shouldn't expect to be able to upgrade much more than the RAM and storage which realistically won't impact your performance that much if you have enough RAM. 

That's my point, Apple doesn't even allow you to do that anymore

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Shiv78 said:

Apple doesn't even allow you to do that anymore

then don't buy their products if thats important to you. 

 

unfortunately though, people who want that are in the minority. 

[Pendragon]

16 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

unfortunately though, people who want that are in the minority. 

"ever heard of market share statistics"

[DrMacintosh]

11 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

"ever heard of market share statistics"

Most people who buy laptops don't want to, or think about upgrading it later. 

 

Sure on the desktop the majority do since more and more are building rather than buying now (I think)