Which Ryzen to go for?

[phongle123]

So, I am not really that familiar with CPUs. But the first and foremost thing I want to state here is that, heat released to the room is the most important factor here.

 

Background: I am running a 5930k, at stock when it is on all the time, it warms the room up a little bit. I have it overclocked at 4.2Ghz @1.116v which does warm the room up just a few more degrees but not noticeable. But when I overclock it to 4.5Ghz, it requires 1.28v which after 1 hour I do feel the extra heat being dissipated into the room and I don't want that so that is why I have kept a 4.2Ghz @1.116v which gives me adequate performance as well as not much extra heat dissipation. The 5930k is also a 140W TDP.

 

So I want to find out which Ryzen would heat up the room the least, which would look to be the Ryzen 1700 which is only a 65W TDP, compared to 95W of the 1700x/1800x, compared to 140W of the 5930k.

 

However, also going for performance-wise. I do see that the 5930k is 140W TDP but the voltage is very low like I said 4.2Ghz @1.116v.

 

After watching benchmarks for the 1700/1700x/1700x. They all use the same voltage when overclocked which is around 1.35-1.40v for a 1700 @3.9Ghz and a 1800x @4.0Ghz and 1.2-1.375v at stock voltages but at the 65W and 95W TDPs.

 

So my question here is,

1) Which is the best choice for me, considering I want to keep the heat increase at a minimum or around the current 5930k. Since, each Ryzen will perform better than the 5930k.

2) How and how much does wattage TDP and voltage affect CPU Temperature and Heat Dissipated into the room? Because, the question here is that the 5930k has 140W TDP but lower voltage and the Ryzen has lower TDP but much higher voltage.

 

Thanks guys!

[Guest]

Voltage is just an aspect of calculating watt. Higher voltage and lower amps can still get you the same amount of watts. So I should not look at those numbers.

 

I would go for the 1700 if room temp is that important. (but I think it's strange it really heats up your room... I'd think the sun would do moar... :/) 1800k if you just want the best.

[Droidbot]

Ryzen TDP is a fucking joke.. https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2017/03/08/amd-ryzen-7-1700-review/6

 

 

[phongle123]

1 minute ago, Dutch-stoner said:

Voltage is just an aspect of calculating watt. Higher voltage and lower amps can still get you the same amount of watts. So I should not look at those numbers.

 

I would go for the 1700 if room temp is that important. (but I think it's strange it really heats up your room... I'd think the sun would do moar... :/) 1800k if you just want the best.

Well, I don't have an actual way to measure it. I just know that when I overclock it to 4.5Ghz @1.28v, with my room closed after 1 hour. No sun hits my windows. I actually start to sweat and would have blow the fan on me. I do leave my computer on for most of the day also. With the 4.5Ghz Overclock, it idles between 40C-52C with heavy fluctuation.

And 4.2Ghz @1.116v, it is a bit hotter than stock but it's not something I notice since stock voltage is around 1.08v.

[phongle123]

6 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

Ryzen TDP is a fucking joke.. https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2017/03/08/amd-ryzen-7-1700-review/6

 

 

So, the portion that says Power Consumption (Load), so the Wattage the CPU is using at Load. Is that also the amount of wattage in heat being released from the processor into the room or is there a different calculation for it?

[rattacko123]

If you don't want to heat up your room, then why are you overclocking?

If you want the lowest heat transfer with very high performance, then 1700 is your best bet.
5930k is pretty damn powerful anyways, so I would wait until Zen 2 before buying  

And as mentioned before TDP is not a good measurement of power consumption (and hence heat output), and Ryzen seems to have really weird TDP ratings that make no sense, except for the 1700. Voltage is even less of a factor.

 

[Guest]

Part of the amount of watts is somehow used for them calculations/changing states of thingies (not a scientist). Biggest part turns into heat, yes.

 

 

[phongle123]

4 minutes ago, rattacko123 said:

If you don't want to heat up your room, then why are you overclocking?

If you want the lowest heat transfer with very high performance, then 1700 is your best bet.
5930k is pretty damn powerful anyways, so I would wait until Zen 2 before buying  

And as mentioned before TDP is not a good measurement of power consumption (and hence heat output), and Ryzen seems to have really weird TDP ratings that make no sense, except for the 1700. Voltage is even less of a factor.

 

I did a modest overclock from 3.7 to 4.2, but to 4.5 is when heat became an issue. I want more performance without any more extra heat that is already generated by my current CPU. That is the point of this thread.

[TheRandomness]

14 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

Ryzen TDP is a fucking joke.. https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2017/03/08/amd-ryzen-7-1700-review/6

 

 

TDP is amount of heat produced, not the power draw.

[phongle123]

5 minutes ago, Dutch-stoner said:

Part of the amount of watts is somehow used for them calculations/changing states of thingies (not a scientist). Biggest part turns into heat, yes.

 

 

So for example, and this is hypothetical here. According to this link: https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2017/03/08/amd-ryzen-7-1700-review/6

The 7700k loads at 129W with no overclock. The 6850k loads at 178W with no overclock.

 

Seeing the 7700k in real life I have seen it's temperatures jump easilly up to 70C and beyond just due to its high stock voltage. And the 6850k, being a 6 core like the 5930k will load around 63ish from a non-synthetic test.

 

So taking these 2 to account, even tho the 6850k has lower load temperatures than the 7700k. But the 6850k has a higher load Wattage. Does that mean that the 6850k is releasing more heat than the 7700k?

[Droidbot]

8 minutes ago, phongle123 said:

So, the portion that says Power Consumption (Load), so the Wattage the CPU is using at Load. Is that also the amount of wattage in heat being released from the processor into the room or is there a different calculation for it?

That's just what it's consuming from the wall, aka total system power draw, including chipset, RAM, etc.

A good chunk of that would be heat, one would assume? 

[Technomancer__]

29 minutes ago, phongle123 said:

So, I am not really that familiar with CPUs. But the first and foremost thing I want to state here is that, heat released to the room is the most important factor here.

 

Background: I am running a 5930k, at stock when it is on all the time, it warms the room up a little bit. I have it overclocked at 4.2Ghz @1.116v which does warm the room up just a few more degrees but not noticeable. But when I overclock it to 4.5Ghz, it requires 1.28v which after 1 hour I do feel the extra heat being dissipated into the room and I don't want that so that is why I have kept a 4.2Ghz @1.116v which gives me adequate performance as well as not much extra heat dissipation. The 5930k is also a 140W TDP.

 

So I want to find out which Ryzen would heat up the room the least, which would look to be the Ryzen 1700 which is only a 65W TDP, compared to 95W of the 1700x/1800x, compared to 140W of the 5930k.

 

However, also going for performance-wise. I do see that the 5930k is 140W TDP but the voltage is very low like I said 4.2Ghz @1.116v.

 

After watching benchmarks for the 1700/1700x/1700x. They all use the same voltage when overclocked which is around 1.35-1.40v for a 1700 @3.9Ghz and a 1800x @4.0Ghz and 1.2-1.375v at stock voltages but at the 65W and 95W TDPs.

 

So my question here is,

1) Which is the best choice for me, considering I want to keep the heat increase at a minimum or around the current 5930k. Since, each Ryzen will perform better than the 5930k.

2) How and how much does wattage TDP and voltage affect CPU Temperature and Heat Dissipated into the room? Because, the question here is that the 5930k has 140W TDP but lower voltage and the Ryzen has lower TDP but much higher voltage.

 

Thanks guys!

1700x is the best value and can get vert near to 1800x with overcloking.

[phongle123]

2 minutes ago, Ethocreeper said:

1700x is the best value and can get vert near to 1800x with overcloking.

I understand that for 120$ less. But that wasn't the point of my post. I'm trying to find a good middle ground of heat dissipated into the room between the processors. As I know that each one of them are very powerful. And if the heat dissipated from a 65W 1700 against a 95W 1700x/1800x is very minimal or a few degrees in difference.

[Technomancer__]

Just now, phongle123 said:

I understand that for 120$ less. But that wasn't the point of my post. I'm trying to find a good middle ground of heat dissipated into the room between the processors. As I know that each one of them are very powerful.

1700x wil be ok with a water cooler for overclocking to 4 GHz with moderate temps

keep in mind you wont be pushing constant wattage forever just to test stability for test.

so it can rest in idle and moderate loads

 

[phongle123]

Just now, Ethocreeper said:

1700x wil be ok with a water cooler for overclocking to 4 GHz with moderate temps

keep in mind you wont be pushing constant wattage forever just to test stability for test.

so it can rest in idle and moderate loads

 

Water cooling a CPU does not force less heat into the room. It just forces the heat from the CPU out faster cooling it more adequately so that doesn't help my case. And at 1.35watts, it will already be idling at 40C-52C which is not a great result.

[Spuriae]

TDP's have little bearing on actual efficiency because they can be manipulated so much and aren't constant anyways. You can't get extra performance without extra heat.

 

The only reason the 1700 has a lower TDP is because it's clocked lower. Exact same reason as why the -k Intel processors have higher TDP's; clock for clock, they put out the same amount of heat since they're practically the same chips.

 

That aside, Ryzen has very good scaling when undervolting (which makes sense, given that it's based on a mobile lithography and has stock clocks near the ceiling). At higher powers/temperatures/performances, you won't see any improvements. I doubt you'll be going the undervolting route, so I wouldn't recommend switching CPU's.

[Technomancer__]

Just now, phongle123 said:

Water cooling a CPU does not force less heat into the room. It just forces the heat from the CPU out faster cooling it more adequately so that doesn't help my case. And at 1.35watts, it will already be idling at 40C-52C which is not a great result.

if its not constant voltage so it can lower it when idle?

[phongle123]

3 minutes ago, Nimrodor said:

TDP's have little bearing on actual efficiency because they can be manipulated so much and aren't constant anyways. You can't get extra performance without extra heat.

 

The only reason the 1700 has a lower TDP is because it's clocked lower. Exact same reason as why the -k Intel processors have higher TDP's; clock for clock, they put out the same amount of heat since they're practically the same chips.

 

So if the 1700 and 1700x are overclocked to match the 1800x's stock clocks. The heat released would be the same?

[Technomancer__]

1 minute ago, phongle123 said:

So if the 1700 and 1700x are overclocked to match the 1800x's stock clocks. The heat released would be the same?

when over-voltage you increase the heat realeased

[Spuriae]

Just now, phongle123 said:

So if the 1700 and 1700x are overclocked to match the 1800x's stock clocks. The heat released would be the same?

Yes. They're practically the same chip, released at different speeds and prices.

[phongle123]

Just now, Ethocreeper said:

when over-voltage you increase the heat realeased

I understand that. But that is not my question.

[Technomancer__]

1 minute ago, phongle123 said:

I understand that. But that is not my question.

yes if you increase the voltage for the clock to match the 1800x it will release more heat

[phongle123]

Just now, Nimrodor said:

Yes. They're practically the same chip, released at different speeds and prices.

Okay thank you. I'll have to look up the overclock potential of each chip a little bit later.

 

But I want to recap, the amount of heat dissipated is a high portion of the Wattage consumption from the entire system and is based off how much wattage is used rather and the actual temperature of your CPU does not contribute to heat dissipation?

[phongle123]

3 minutes ago, Ethocreeper said:

yes if you increase the voltage for the clock to match the 1800x it will release more heat

I understand where your coming from. But that was not my question at all. From your answer, the takeaway is that, if I overclock the heat dissipation would be higher. But then that also questions that which of the 3 Ryzen CPUs release the least amount of heat when it is overclocked to match the 1800x.

@Nimrodor answered the question that I wanted to know.

[Brooksie359]

Just now, phongle123 said:

I understand where your coming from. But that was not my question at all. From your answer, the takeaway is that, if I overclock the heat dissipation would be higher. But then that also questions that which of the 3 Ryzen CPUs release the least amount of heat when it is overclocked to match the 1800x.

@Nimrodor answered the question that I wanted to know.

honestly is mostly luck of the draw. from what I've seen the there was a temperature reporting issue with the r7 1700x and 1800x so there is not a very good way to compare temps of each chip once they have all been oced. if you run any of the chips at 3.7 though you should have much lower temps as usually you have to increase the voltage quite a bit after 3.7 to run stably.