Ryzen question

[AdmiralMeowmix]

I'm curious, since games require code to be optimized for CPU's if using a Ryzen chip to play older games would it still continue to bottleneck the games since it's very likely most older games (even ones that are still graphically demanding) wont be optimized in some form compared to games that do become optimized for the architecture?

 

I think the biggest mess up on AMD's part is their fear of leaks is so bad that they don't communicate with third parties well enough and we get this rocky weird kind of launch because of it, because no one had time to prepare for the architecture.

Edited March 6, 2017 by AdmiralMeowmix
Forgot a part

[The Sloth]

 

[Aniallation]

Games don't require code to be optimized for a certain CPU. They all run the same instruction set, it's just a matter of how well. Older games are generally more benefited to single-threaded performance, which Ryzen is pretty good at (though afaik still not as good as Intel). The only "bottleneck" is if it can't keep up with your GPU. 

[CatXice]

6 minutes ago, Aniallation said:

Games don't require code to be optimized for a certain CPU. They all run the same instruction set, it's just a matter of how well. Older games are generally more benefited to single-threaded performance, which Ryzen is pretty good at (though afaik still not as good as Intel). The only "bottleneck" is if it can't keep up with your GPU. 

optimisation works by sendin the cpu somthin it understands and sends it in a way it whats to do things example

it i start talkin to u starting at the end of the sentence and goin backwards u would understand it just slower then if i sent it the correct way

[fjdhdhcyfhf]

10 minutes ago, Aniallation said:

Games don't require code to be optimized for a certain CPU. They all run the same instruction set, it's just a matter of how well. Older games are generally more benefited to single-threaded performance, which Ryzen is pretty good at (though afaik still not as good as Intel). The only "bottleneck" is if it can't keep up with your GPU. 

they are not identical. they are compatible but intel and AMD each introduce their own advancements to the instruction set.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C%2B%2B_Compiler#Criticism

[Drak3]

5 minutes ago, Aniallation said:

Games don't require code to be optimized for a certain CPU. They all run the same instruction set, it's just a matter of how well. Older games are generally more benefited to single-threaded performance, which Ryzen is pretty good at (though afaik still not as good as Intel). The only "bottleneck" is if it can't keep up with your GPU. 

All software can be optimized to specific implementations of key CPU architectures, and depending on the compiler, can even be made to be crippled running on one processor (or even the chipset) over another (Intel did this to get a leg over AMD and VIA). Between AMD's branch prediction tech, truer SMT implementation, and the variances between implementations of the instruction sets, there is plenty of optimization that can be done. How much performance can be gained it up in the air.

 

Optimization was a huge issue with Bulldozer and it's sub architectures, as it used CMT, which was completely unprecedented on nearly all platforms. At least Intel's Hyperthreading is a copy of IBM's SMT on the POWER architecture family, so moving from POWER SMT to x86 HTT wasn't much of an issue.

 

Also, instruction sets can be implemented differently in different CPUs. As per the cross patent agreement between Intel and AMD, both companies can use the same instruction sets that the other owns (IA32 and AMD64), but they cannot implement them in the same way.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Older games may have issues regardless of using Ryzen or Skylake or whatever because they don't know what new features those processors have. 

 

However, most optimizations should not start at the CPU level. You should be making better design choices first by making sure your algorithms and logic runs fast regardless of architecture. Reduce  the complexity of your code first before trying to figure out what whizzbang CPU feature you can use. 

 

It's also unlikely most developers even have the skills to do CPU level optimization. It's not like they're poking at the compiler all the time. If anything, if the developer is using a third party engine, they trust the engine developer knows what they're doing. 

[Godlygamer23]

26 minutes ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

I'm curious, since games require code to be optimized for CPU's if using a Ryzen chip to play older games would it still continue to bottleneck the games since it's very likely most older games (even ones that are still graphically demanding) wont be optimized in some form compared to games that do become optimized for the architecture?

While AMD is claiming that game developers are optimizing for the architecture, I wouldn't buy the CPUs with that idea in mind if you're going to be gaming mostly. If yo're doing other work alongside gaming, then Ryzen is a purchase I can get behind. 

[Moress]

7 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

While AMD is claiming that game developers are optimizing for the architecture, I wouldn't buy the CPUs with that idea in mind if you're going to be gaming mostly. If yo're doing other work alongside gaming, then Ryzen is a purchase I can get behind. 

This is what Ive been trying to tell people. Ryzen chips are PRODUCTION focused CPUs. They're not meant for gaming solely, they're meant for those who have the need for more cores and don't want to pay the ridiculous prices that Intel charges.

[Godlygamer23]

Just now, Moress said:

This is what Ive been trying to tell people. Ryzen chips are PRODUCTION focused CPUs. They're not meant for gaming solely, they're meant for those who have the need for more cores and don't want to pay the ridiculous prices that Intel charges.

But I don't agree with the idea that they're "not designed for gaming." This is what I had to say in another topic. Respond to it how you want to:

Quote

There's nothing fundamentally different between the R7 lineup and the future R5 lineup. The architecture will still be there, albeit with less cores and a higher clock speed. Even when you use the argument that the chips are not designed for gaming due to their position in the market, understand that Ryzen is operating at higher clock speeds to compensate for the lack of IPC compared to Intel's CPUs, and this to me is why the argument that the R7s are not positioned for gaming doesn't hold up. They may not be, but the speeds do not match that IMO. 

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/747300-ltt-ryzen-review-critique/?do=findComment&comment=9472799

 

[jasonc_01]

32 minutes ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

I'm curious, since games require code to be optimized for CPU's if using a Ryzen chip to play older games would it still continue to bottleneck the games since it's very likely most older games (even ones that are still graphically demanding) wont be optimized in some form compared to games that do become optimized for the architecture?

 

I think the biggest mess up on AMD's part is their fear of leaks is so bad that they don't communicate with third parties well enough and we get this rocky weird kind of launch because of it, because no one had time to prepare for the architecture.

We're talking 10%-15% slower frame rates than intel ATM, in "some" AAA titles. Its not like your gaming on a dual core pentium, its still a good gaming experience. Its been made out to seem like its a turd in gaming, its just not met expectations.... as of yet.

[AdmiralMeowmix]

I'm hoping to buy ryzen by the end of this month/early april and just paranoid by how this launch has gone. I'll be doing 3D work and a significant amont of gaming as well. Just trying to find what's best for me and I'm hoping AMD can iron out the kinks soon.

[geo3]

14 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Older games may have issues regardless of using Ryzen or Skylake or whatever because they don't know what new features those processors have. 

 

However, most optimizations should not start at the CPU level. You should be making better design choices first by making sure your algorithms and logic runs fast regardless of architecture. Reduce  the complexity of your code first before trying to figure out what whizzbang CPU feature you can use. 

 

It's also unlikely most developers even have the skills to do CPU level optimization. It's not like they're poking at the compiler all the time. If anything, if the developer is using a third party engine, they trust the engine developer knows what they're doing. 

Unless you're John Carmack you're probably letting the compiler handle level CPU optimization. 

[Brooksie359]

1 minute ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

I'm hoping to buy ryzen by the end of this month/early april and just paranoid by how this launch has gone. I'll be doing 3D work and a significant amont of gaming as well. Just trying to find what's best for me and I'm hoping AMD can iron out the kinks soon.

what type of 3d work? 

[Not_Sean]

I've got a question here for you guys, How would you rate Ryzen will handle Virtualization, I'm looking at doing a 1 CPU 2 Gamers build and at the price can Give each machine 8 Threads. 

Anyone been able to test it on them yet ? 

[AdmiralMeowmix]

12 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

what type of 3d work? 

3D modeling, rendering, texturing, animation, etc. The whole shebang of 3D work, I'm currently in college for it.

[Brooksie359]

Just now, AdmiralMeowmix said:

3D modeling, rendering, texturing, animation, etc. The whole shebang of 3D work, I'm currently in college for it.

you should probably look at relevant benchmarks showing the performance of the r7 chips in those workloads compared to intel. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 hour ago, geo3 said:

Unless you're John Carmack you're probably letting the compiler handle level CPU optimization. 

A lot of people want to be "in control" of their system, but really, it's just better to trust your tools.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, Not_Sean said:

I've got a question here for you guys, How would you rate Ryzen will handle Virtualization, I'm looking at doing a 1 CPU 2 Gamers build and at the price can Give each machine 8 Threads. 

Anyone been able to test it on them yet ? 

These are the only guys I've heard talk about it:

Spoiler

 

I'd say stay tuned to them for more info on virtualization.

[Not_Sean]

20 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

These are the only guys I've heard talk about it:

  Hide contents

 

I'd say stay tuned to them for more info on virtualization.

Thanks man, Yeah will be holding off for a bit also want to see which ram will work best once all the bugs are ironed out  Still value for money for a dual 8 thread system is amazing