good news everyone, looks like MS is finally considering toggling (disabling) driver updates from Windows 10 updates

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

Awesome. Thank you.

 

I find myself wondering if this issue is related in any way to Windows 10. If I had to guess I'd say all their update servers are busy handling Windows 10, so Windows 7 just gets left in the dust.

 

It would make sense, considering all the stuff M$ has been doing since Windows 10 came out, to force people off of Windows 7 and onto the newer OS.

yes, it's related to W10 launch

MS did something with the update availability for W7, suddenly people are waiting hours for Windows 7 Update to complete it's search - I had to leave it for 2 hours straight searching

[NumLock21]

1 hour ago, porina said:

Spoiler

 

If you have no driver, or an out of date one, an update can be a good thing. The problem is when Windows thinks it knows better, and it sounds like myself and zMeul have encountered cases where if you install the latest Intel GPU driver, Windows Update thinks its older one is better and downgrades it for you. Also I have seen cases in the past (pre-Win10) where it can get confused and actually try to install the wrong driver.

 

While fire-and-forget is fine most of the time, for more critical things like this I would at least like the option of user intervention to choose if a driver should be updated.

 

 

If you have installed the driver already, windows update majority of the time will not even display drivers for your device. I've done it a number of times and it never does that. The only time it will show me a driver for my device is when the driver for it, is newer than the one I have already installed. Windows update drivers can always be opt out since XP, because most will just run on automatic updates, they don't get that option. Need to set it to manual and then you can deselect the components you don't need.

 

1 hour ago, ShiftyFella said:

Spoiler

I'm not talking about MS repository servers. I'm talking what MS update system decided to do to your system, when there is no drivers for an older device in its repository or its policy when drivers in that repository hasn't been updated in some time.  Every update it always deletes drivers for my Skystar dvb s2 pcie tuner, with alert in action centre saying MS update system removed older drivers, as they haven't been updated in over 6month. Last drivers released for it were for win7 but they work perfectly on win10 without any issues but MS policy is annoying. Anniversary update flat out deleted half of my programs, even updated ccleaner got nuked saying it got rid of old and incompatible software, after that update win10 now refuses to work with my old pci AverMedia analog tv tunner, despite it working perfectly before using xp drivers for it, same thing happened to my HP All in one but I got it fixed by using windows generic drivers not the one that HP supplies. Resetting file type\program preferences occasionally cause it thinks it detected some bogus issue is annoying too, this is extra comical when it resets its own Office 2013 to store version of Office365 that I don't have installed and it always takes you to MS Store page Get Office, if you forgot to change things back when you open excel or word document

 

I have a old HP printer from 10 years ago. Haven't used it in years and Windows doesn't just pop up and say, "Hey we checked you have not used your printer for a long time. So we do you a favor and delete that driver for you and from our driver database". You can always force install the drivers for your device that you know it was working before. For software like CCleaner, not a big deal, just update it.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

f you have installed the driver already, windows update majority of the time will not even display drivers for your device. I've done it a number of times and it never does that. The only time it will show me a driver for my device is when the driver for it, is newer than the one I have already installed. Windows update drivers can always be opt out since XP, because most will just run on automatic updates, they don't get that option. Need to set it to manual and then you can deselect the components you don't need.

no, that's not how it works by default

 

my guess is AMD and nVidia got a way to bypass the Windows Update checks

even my Synaptics touchpad driver got in trouble until MS updated their repos to include the latest available driver

[NumLock21]

6 minutes ago, zMeul said:

because if I install a newer driver that MS has, Windows Updates will force install the older driver instead

why is it so hard to understand

 

the same goes the other way around: if you have a older driver, because new ones give you shit, MS will force the driver it has in Windows Updates

You can always hide drivers you don't want MS to install.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/stop-automatic-driver-updates-windows-10

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

You can always hide drivers you don't want MS to install.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/stop-automatic-driver-updates-windows-10

that thing hasn't worked since 1st or 2nd cumulative update after W10 launch

[porina]

18 minutes ago, zMeul said:

my guess is AMD and nVidia got a way to bypass the Windows Update checks

even my Synaptics touchpad driver got in trouble until MS updated their repos to include the latest available driver

I don't have a good answer, but my observation is that Windows Update seems to think the driver it has is a better fit, regardless if it might be newer or older. If so it replaces whatever is already there. I don't know how it decides that, but it is certainly not a desirable way to work.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, porina said:

I don't have a good answer, but my observation is that Windows Update seems to think the driver it has is a better fit, regardless if it might be newer or older. If so it replaces whatever is already there. I don't know how it decides that, but it is certainly not a desirable way to work.

on my main I also used DDU, that might have something with it

I recall DDU has a check for Windows Updates

[ShiftyFella]

12 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

If you have installed the driver already, windows update majority of the time will not even display drivers for your device. I've done it a number of times and it never does that. The only time it will show me a driver for my device is when the driver for it, is newer than the one I have already installed. Windows update drivers can always be opt out since XP, because most will just run on automatic updates, they don't get that option. Need to set it to manual and then you can deselect the components you don't need.

Only that's not how it works now and there is no option not to update drivers and it decides on its own what to touch or not. Weirdly, it never touched my gpu or intel's rst drivers, also I had a lot of issues with 920c webcam too until I gave up on on Logitech drivers and software, so it works great using generic drivers until you install Logitech software but then webcam just doesn't work anymore and without it you don't have much in terms of controls for it. You have little more options over updates and can do some tweaks and 'hacks' but those only for pro version of win10, your basic win10 has none of that and it's annoying and I'm not paying money to update personal rig to pro version just to get generic functionally back.

 

12 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

I have a old HP printer from 10 years ago. Haven't used it in years and Windows doesn't just pop up and say, "Hey we checked you have not used your printer for a long time. So we do you a favor and delete that driver for you and from our driver database". You can always force install the drivers for your device that you know it was working before. For software like CCleaner, not a big deal, just update it.

That's the thing, CCleaner was updated to the latest version and it deleted plenty of other important programs that I used for work like Scilab and Creately, thankfully I had project and settings backed up, so damage was minimal but my point is that didn't had to do it in the 1st place. As for old tvtuner, it just flat out stopped working even after force install of not signed drivers, which is funny cause it worked before anniversary update. I fixed it by moving tuner to my workstation rig and setting up local nginx rtmp to stream all ota channels. I don't mind them deprecating support for some really old hardware and it is old, I bought it back in 04 but how about a warning before update, so you don't have to waste hours to try to get something working when it worked before update

[Zodiark1593]

4 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

Driver updates from windows update is extremely useful. Can't understand why some don't like it.

On my own laptop, the graphics are a very odd configuration that it took non-official drivers to work correctly (the old AMD + Intel Switchable Graphics). The drivers automatically installed via Windows Update breaks these drivers, and the dGPU is disabled. 

[Nowak]

4 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Awesome. Thank you.

 

I find myself wondering if this issue is related in any way to Windows 10. If I had to guess I'd say all their update servers are busy handling Windows 10, so Windows 7 just gets left in the dust.

 

It would make sense, considering all the stuff M$ has been doing since Windows 10 came out, to force people off of Windows 7 and onto the newer OS.

I've heard it's because Microsoft switched Windows Update to P2P updating, but didn't update Windows 7 to use the new system. Which is pretty bad, considering how they're supposed to support Windows 7 for 3 more years.

[porina]

5 minutes ago, Daring said:

I've heard it's because Microsoft switched Windows Update to P2P updating, but didn't update Windows 7 to use the new system. Which is pretty bad, considering how they're supposed to support Windows 7 for 3 more years.

The slowness isn't in the download speed. The problem seems to be with the scanning of updates on the local system.

[NumLock21]

25 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

On my own laptop, the graphics are a very odd configuration that it took non-official drivers to work correctly (the old AMD + Intel Switchable Graphics). The drivers automatically installed via Windows Update breaks these drivers, and the dGPU is disabled. 

It's a possibility your specific laptop has some modded gpu where only drivers from your laptop manufacture will work and none of the universal ones as well as those from Windows update is going to work.

[Zodiark1593]

27 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

It's a possibility your specific laptop has some modded gpu where only drivers from your laptop manufacture will work and none of the universal ones as well as those from Windows update is going to work.

That is the case, though they (the OEM drivers from 2010) do not work with Windows 10.

[NumLock21]

6 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

That is the case, though they (the OEM drivers from 2010) do not work with Windows 10.

Try manual install or force install.

[Zodiark1593]

4 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Try manual install or force install.

The unofficial drivers I'm using work with Windows 10 (leshcat labs is the website I got them from). It's just that Windows update tries to install it's own drivers and breaks the setup. 

[captain cactus]

For a moment there I thought we'd be getting our options back with regards to Windows updates (like they were in Windows 7/8) but then reality hit and now it looks like driver updates are still forced upon one's computer just like Windows updates themselves.

 

I can't wait for the day when Microsoft releases a Windows 10 update that just bricks a bazillion computers at once because of some bug in the update. Let the lawsuits commence! 

[AlTech]

Afaik, it already downloads and installs drivers for laptops and specialized hardware.

 

So this is just effectively adding a toggle instead of doing it for people.

[jagdtigger]

19 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I'm just waiting for them to get their heads out of their asses, and allow us to toggle updates, turn off the telemetry, and not have cumulative updates. Once those three things happen, and I don't have to finagle the damned thing to be secure, I will adopt Windows 10.

My thoughts exactly...

[Nobel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/5mz6ss/announcing_windows_10_insider_preview_build_15002/dc7knwn/

 

Quote

We’ve added an option that will now allow you to decide whether or not to include driver updates when you update Windows. This capability will be available on Professional, Education, and Enterprise editions of Windows.

WHY? Whoever made that decision is a fucking twat.

[zMeul]

update January 10th: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/01/09/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-15002-pc/#do166xwo3r0cGDD7.97

MicroSoft had to fuck it up, the toggle will not be available on W10 Home:

Quote

We’ve added an option that will now allow you to decide whether or not to include driver updates when you update Windows. This capability will be available on Professional, Education, and Enterprise editions of Windows.

[Dabombinable]

How about we get these options back?

On 08/01/2017 at 4:50 AM, Zodiark1593 said:

On my own laptop, the graphics are a very odd configuration that it took non-official drivers to work correctly (the old AMD + Intel Switchable Graphics). The drivers automatically installed via Windows Update breaks these drivers, and the dGPU is disabled. 

It was similar for my old laptop. I had to use unofficial drivers to get the Mobility Radeon HD4250 and HD5650 working correctly under Windows 10. Then I found out later that all I need to do was simply install an older driver for the HD4250, and everything worked just fine. Though with my Mum's old (and replaced) laptop with Intel HD graphics (first gen) and a Mobility Radeon HD5450 the drivers installed by Windows 10 are fine.