Star Citizen's Star Marine released to Live Servers including a free fly week! also "ditched" cryengine for Lumberyard.

[Misanthrope]

1 hour ago, Hawx said:

What? How is that even relevant to anything I said? CIG's fork of CE has been modified north of 50% from the original codebase.

Picking an engine that didn't need 50% of the original codebase modified would be a start to making things better. Sure other engines wouldn't look as good for what they where attempting, which I maintain was and still is far too ambitious for it's own good.

[ADM-Ntek]

35 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Picking an engine that didn't need 50% of the original codebase modified would be a start to making things better. Sure other engines wouldn't look as good for what they where attempting, which I maintain was and still is far too ambitious for it's own good.

there IS no engine that wouldn't have needed that massive change. but Cryengine had several features they wanted that other engines didn't/don´t have. so Cry was the best choice. and just because you are small minded means that it is to ambitious.

[Misanthrope]

25 minutes ago, ADM-Ntek said:

there IS no engine that wouldn't have needed that massive change. 

I know: did you read the second part of that post? The game with it's current aims shouldn't have been made. It's too ambitious, too difficult to manage, it will take too long, it will fall short of expectations and worst of all, it's a terrible waste of crowd funding money that could have completed like 100 other projects that are more realistic in their scope.

[ZachBrownfield]

23 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

Whats this Star Marine, is that what they decided to call the campaign aspect they mentioned at some point.

 

Anyway until they get close to releasing the full game people need to stop hyping it up since it will never live up to hype nothing can live up to hype.

 

Star Marine is a tactical FPS mini-game. Think something along the line of Call of Duty matches, with different types of modes and maps. Just a taste of what the full open game will have, but with no danger to your "real" character. The single player game is a separate game now and is called Squadron 42. 

[zMeul]

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

Again this is nothing but a visual rebrand. All they've done is change the public branding in exchange for some amazon goodies & support. 

 

It's still the same heavily modified fork of CE 3.7/3.8 underneath. 

you might wanna check Amazon's documentation on LuberYard; or at least the faq

CryEngine and LuberYard will take their own paths onward

 

in fact, CryEngine has been updated last week (3.8.6), while LuberYard is still on a Nov build

[RexinOridle]

We don't know the future, It may come out to be great, or may turn into a lost cause. But one thing for sure, Star Citizen has turned into the new AMD. It's all hype train, not much of a final result. Take it with a grain of salt, the size of a watermelon.

[ACatWithThumbs]

..

[AlTech]

13 hours ago, Hawx said:

What? How is that even relevant to anything I said? CIG's fork of CE has been modified north of 50% from the original codebase.

 

Stock Lumberyard contains none of the features that CIG has added to the engine.

 

Again this is nothing but a visual rebrand. All they've done is change the public branding in exchange for some amazon goodies & support. 

 

It's still the same heavily modified fork of CE 3.7/3.8 underneath. 

You mean CryEngine 5 right? Cos CryEngine 3 died a long time ago.

[Guest Kloaked]

7 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

You mean CryEngine 5 right? Cos CryEngine 3 died a long time ago.

The names don't mean anything. They literally jumped from CE3 (then to just calling it CryEngine) to CE5 with more graphic API support and some other stuff that I think Amazon wouldn't even need to so much as blink to get implemented into Lumberyard.

 

With CIG, a lot of the modifications made to CryEngine essentially made it their own fork, sorta like how Titanfall is running on the Source Engine but has some custom tools/features that Respawn implemented - except in CIG's case the engine may as well have been called something else like someone else in the thread was implying.

 

The main thing that comes with Lumberyard and CIG's version of it, is Amazon's backend which will help in giving Star Citizen the massive backbone that it needs whenever it actually releases the entirety of the persistent universe. It's actually a good move I think, so I don't see why people are getting upset. If anything it's progress toward an actual launch.

[Omon_Ra]

10 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

The game with it's current aims shouldn't have been made. It's too ambitious, too difficult to manage, it will take too long, it will fall short of expectations and worst of all, it's a terrible waste of crowd funding money that could have completed like 100 other projects that are more realistic in their scope.

I love how people complain about how other people spend their money. Nobody is forcing anyone to support development, it's because there are a LOT of people who want to see an ambitious, challenging project come to life. How much money has been wasted on subpar reskins of the same game year after year (Battlefield, COD, Madden/Fifa/NHL, etc)? Is that what you'd rather have? The, 'takes too long' is a false argument; there has never been a developer who has openly shown this much of its early-stage development. It's only been 4 YEARS since they first announced the project. Considering what they have already available in Alpha 2.6, it's pretty damn impressive.

 

Granted, it is of a MUCH wider scale and scope than the initial Kickstarter concept, but how can you say that is a bad thing? I do feel bad for the first backers who expected a smaller game (and a much earlier release date) but the ambition and desire to literally create a new universe, is what grabbed my attention. Does nobody understand that game development takes more than a few waves of the hand and some coding? And not to mention the level of detail they're going into with the AI systems, physics modelling, the scale of the universe and so on, I honestly don't expect the first chapter of Squadron 42 for quite some time.

 

Alpha 2.6 is okay, I played a few of the PTU builds, and at least it doesn't crash all the time now. I do get the feeling they just kind of rushed it out of the door before the new year just so they could say they did, but it's nowhere near the mess of 2.0 when that released.

[Guest Kloaked]

1 minute ago, Omon_Ra said:

I love how people complain about how other people spend their money. Nobody is forcing anyone to support development, it's because there are a LOT of people who want to see an ambitious, challenging project come to life. How much money has been wasted on subpar reskins of the same game year after year (Battlefield, COD, Madden/Fifa/NHL, etc)? Is that what you'd rather have? The, 'takes too long' is a false argument; there has never been a developer who has openly shown this much of its early-stage development. It's only been 4 YEARS since they first announced the project. Considering what they have already available in Alpha 2.6, it's pretty damn impressive.

 

Granted, it is of a MUCH wider scale and scope than the initial Kickstarter concept, but how can you say that is a bad thing? I do feel bad for the first backers who expected a smaller game (and a much earlier release date) but the ambition and desire to literally create a new universe, is what grabbed my attention. Does nobody understand that game development takes more than a few waves of the hand and some coding? And not to mention the level of detail they're going into with the AI systems, physics modelling, the scale of the universe and so on, I honestly don't expect the first chapter of Squadron 42 for quite some time.

 

Alpha 2.6 is okay, I played a few of the PTU builds, and at least it doesn't crash all the time now. I do get the feeling they just kind of rushed it out of the door before the new year just so they could say they did, but it's nowhere near the mess of 2.0 when that released.

A lot of this reminds me of current political topics/issues.

 

People [supposedly] want transparency. They get it (somewhat), and they cry xenophopia, racism, etc etc because words hurt my wittle feefees.

 

News media gets caught flat out lying and making up stories to create a narrative and people believe it.

 

Video games companies mostly promote the crap out of (what are essentially) reskinned games (sometimes they're remasters, so literally a reskin) with dumbass paid DLC that should be free, yet the games are almost always broken messes on launch.

 

Here comes CIG with a dream of actually putting PC first with a massive game which you don't have to pay for yet if you don't want to, and people fucking unfairly criticize the hell out of them when they hit roadblocks that you wouldn't see from any other studio - not that I don't think criticism of the actual game is unwarranted, but their development time and such shouldn't be a problem, imo.

 

I'm also not saying this to demean anyone. I just think people should calm down and not act like that one twat (Derek Smart?) who looks like a tool who has nothing better to do than talk shit about CIG.

[AlwaysFSX]

On 12/24/2016 at 4:35 PM, Prysin said:

That is a contradiction if I've ever seen one 

Wait, how are those two statements contradictory?

[Misanthrope]

49 minutes ago, Omon_Ra said:

I love how people complain about how other people spend their money. 

People who buy snake oil fucking hate to be told they're suckers who bought snake oils, but it doesn't matters they need to be told until they confront reality.

[ZachBrownfield]

2 hours ago, Kloaked said:

The names don't mean anything. They literally jumped from CE3 (then to just calling it CryEngine) to CE5 with more graphic API support and some other stuff that I think Amazon wouldn't even need to so much as blink to get implemented into Lumberyard.

 

With CIG, a lot of the modifications made to CryEngine essentially made it their own fork, sorta like how Titanfall is running on the Source Engine but has some custom tools/features that Respawn implemented - except in CIG's case the engine may as well have been called something else like someone else in the thread was implying.

 

The main thing that comes with Lumberyard and CIG's version of it, is Amazon's backend which will help in giving Star Citizen the massive backbone that it needs whenever it actually releases the entirety of the persistent universe. It's actually a good move I think, so I don't see why people are getting upset. If anything it's progress toward an actual launch.

 

I think what people forget is CIG has pretty much achieved the graphical side of things, it's the networking and AI which had a lot of work to do still. Amazon will help with the networking side of things with their massive infrastructure. 

[Prysin]

7 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Wait, how are those two statements contradictory?

just read his two statements a few more times and you'll get it

[Omon_Ra]

16 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

People who buy snake oil fucking hate to be told they're suckers who bought snake oils, but it doesn't matters they need to be told until they confront reality.

What part of CIG/Star Citizen is snake oil though? Nobody has actually purchased the game; all funding has been for development (or support of community projects with the subscriber money). And since they're still in development, I'm getting exactly what I paid for. If CIG had basically disappeared and no signs of progress or continuing development stopped, then I'd agree with you; but there has been nothing to indicate they don't plan on completing the game.

 

I don't like people buying snake oils either, and people do need to make informed decisions; but just because you don't see the point, or value in pushing the limits of PC's, gaming, world building and countless other measures, doesn't mean others shouldn't support that.

[Misanthrope]

2 hours ago, Omon_Ra said:

What part of CIG/Star Citizen is snake oil though? Nobody has actually purchased the game; all funding has been for development (or support of community projects with the subscriber money). And since they're still in development, I'm getting exactly what I paid for. If CIG had basically disappeared and no signs of progress or continuing development stopped, then I'd agree with you; but there has been nothing to indicate they don't plan on completing the game.

 

I don't like people buying snake oils either, and people do need to make informed decisions; but just because you don't see the point, or value in pushing the limits of PC's, gaming, world building and countless other measures, doesn't mean others shouldn't support that.

The parts you just listed: paid money for development for a project that intentionally or incompetently spends years (likely a decade by the time they can call it finished) in development. 

 

All crowd fundings are scams. Decent projects can get legitimate investors, crap is highly unlikely to never happen or come out short it's done through crowd funding. 

[ADM-Ntek]

37 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

The parts you just listed: paid money for development for a project that intentionally or incompetently spends years (likely a decade by the time they can call it finished) in development. 

 

All crowd fundings are scams. Decent projects can get legitimate investors, crap is highly unlikely to never happen or come out short it's done through crowd funding. 

you forget CIG had the "legitimate investors" already lined up but turned them down. because they saw they could do without.   

[Misanthrope]

52 minutes ago, ADM-Ntek said:

you forget CIG had the "legitimate investors" already lined up but turned them down. because they saw they could do without.   

Didn't know that actually. Got a source on that? I'd like to keep this little nugget handy next time subject comes up.

[LeChef]

14 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Didn't know that actually. Got a source on that? I'd like to keep this little nugget handy next time subject comes up.

I'll try and find the page link, but during the crowd funding via kickstarter Roberts let the community know, that he needed just a million or so to prove the investors that people wanted this game. He also told us that when the funding would reach 20 million or so, no investors would be required to complete the game (with the smaller scope at that time) and thus make it a fully crowd funded game. 

 

EDIT:

Found it. 

"I was never making a two or three or four million dollar game. I was always making  $15 million game, minimum," Roberts says. "I'd lined up investors, and the crowdfunding was to validate that people still cared about space sims, or even about me, because I'd been gone for 10 years." 

As it turns out that, thanks to crowdfunding, he no longer needs investors at all. 

 

Source

Edited December 26, 2016 by RikvE
Extra info

[Misanthrope]

14 minutes ago, RikvE said:

I'll try and find the page link, but during the crowd funding via kickstarter Roberts let the community know, that he needed just a million or so to prove the investors that people wanted this game. He also told us that when the funding would reach 20 million or so, no investors would be required to complete the game (with the smaller scope at that time) and thus make it a fully crowd funded game. 

 

EDIT:

Found it. 

"I was never making a two or three or four million dollar game. I was always making  $15 million game, minimum," Roberts says. "I'd lined up investors, and the crowdfunding was to validate that people still cared about space sims, or even about me, because I'd been gone for 10 years." 

As it turns out that, thanks to crowdfunding, he no longer needs investors at all. 

 

Source

Thanks for looking.

 

What I find the most interesting is that these projects just up the ante the more donations they get. You could close the project when you meet your goal and turn all other contributions into game preorders instead. I'd even suggest a legitimate investment into their company but that's a bridge too far for these guys but still, just because you get handled a mountain of money doesn't means you can add a mountain on features. Shit just doesn't works linearly like that once you're past a certain degree of complexity you're only hurting your project. Not even AAA publishers that have not only the money but the decades of experience into managing large projects often succeed at games like this but you actually think you can surpass them?

 

Nerd culture is creating these hyper inflated egos and turning honest enthusiasts into naiive idiots.

[LeChef]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Thanks for looking.

 

What I find the most interesting is that these projects just up the ante the more donations they get. You could close the project when you meet your goal and turn all other contributions into game preorders instead. I'd even suggest a legitimate investment into their company but that's a bridge too far for these guys but still, just because you get handled a mountain of money doesn't means you can add a mountain on features. Shit just doesn't works linearly like that once you're past a certain degree of complexity you're only hurting your project. Not even AAA publishers that have not only the money but the decades of experience into managing large projects often succeed at games like this but you actually think you can surpass them?

 

Nerd culture is creating these hyper inflated egos and turning honest enthusiasts into naiive idiots.

I get your pov. It's the vocal minority that gives the wrong impression though. Most of the people I backed with, have a totally different mindset. Even though I spent 600 dollars a promise, when this game turns out to be a piece of shit, I'll just be like "fuck me right" and move on. Plenty of other nice games to play. 

 

With all that said, I still believe sc will deliver what I expect of it, but I am sure that load of more recent backers will not feel the same way. 

[The Benjamins]

On 12/25/2016 at 9:59 PM, Misanthrope said:

People who buy snake oil fucking hate to be told they're suckers who bought snake oils, but it doesn't matters they need to be told until they confront reality.

as a person who invested in Project Cars and saw its development, Star Citizen seems to be doing fine for what I have seen. games really come together in the final months, and look slow before that. I will say I really like how Project Cars treated their investors, I even get a stack in the profits. (never even knew I would, I just wanted the game.) It took about 3-4 years since I payed for Project Cars for it to be release and it is a far smaller project.

[Misanthrope]

19 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

as a person who invested in Project Cars and saw its development, Star Citizen seems to be doing fine for what I have seen. games really come together in the final months, and look slow before that. I will say I really like how Project Cars treated their investors, I even get a stack in the profits. (never even knew I would, I just wanted the game.) It took about 3-4 years since I payed for Project Cars for it to be release and it is a far smaller project.

That's very interesting I think every project should be doing what Project Cars is doing. Even if it's just a symbolic percentage it's still nice to know that you could have made your investment back and gotten a game out of it for example.

[The Benjamins]

33 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

That's very interesting I think every project should be doing what Project Cars is doing. Even if it's just a symbolic percentage it's still nice to know that you could have made your investment back and gotten a game out of it for example.

ya I was surprise, I was like why are they sending me money. after a few times I googled and found out that it was my slice of the profits. I payed 49.99 EUR at the time and got back about 130 EUR. over the coarse of of its release. I also remember people on steam asking how I got the game, when they finally moved the alpha to steam. I am not sure If they are doing the same thing for Project Cars 2, I think they are though.