FBI Owns Half of All Child Porn Websites, and Actively Helps Improve Reliability and Speed of Them

[vorticalbox]

50 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What's wrong with it?  If a person says "give me ALL the child porn!" and that's disgusting and illegal then how is it wrong for law enforcement to imply they have what criminals want (porn, drugs, etc.) and arrest criminals when the criminals indicate that they 100% want to do or possess something illegal?

 

 

Why are you actually complaining about catching criminals?    Yes it would be better if the fbi wasn't actually hosting porn but the basic trickery idea is valid.  It's tricking criminal pedo scum in this case so that's a GOOD thing.   

they arent implying that actually are distributing it.

[SurvivorNVL]

Now we know where John Podesta is getting his kids.

[potoooooooo]

21 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Well there is one thing to seize a website and then start using it as a honeypot, and another thing to seize it, upgrade it and make it more popular. Hell, I'd say that honeypots (especially at this scale) is very close to entrapment.

Or you know, just shut the website down and all of a sudden the majority of child porn distribution will be gone.

 

 

That was one out of the 23 websites they operate.

This is nothing like entrapment

 

You have to really want to use these website to use them, it's not like they're advertising them on google

[Dash Lambda]

6 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Who goes to a child porn site besides pedos?

It's not like I'd stumble across a child porn site while trying to buy a computer part or a PS4 game.

 

Yes they should be stopping child porn at any source they can find but that doesn't make these pedos innocent in general or for using these child porn sites. They knew what they were doing was illegal but they use these sites anyway. Thus they are guilty and must be dealt with according to applicable laws. 

Like I said, there's a difference between a pedophile and a child rapist.

A pedophile can't help being a pedophile, that's just how they are. I'm sure that you couldn't just stop being attracted to adults. The only problem arises when they try to act on it and attack children or do other inappropriate and harmful things, and that is something entirely different.

 

Pedophiles who just look at pictures and stuff online are almost certainly harmless, they're not hurting anyone. The people making those pictures are, and so they should be stopped. Unfortunately, the FBI doesn't care about that.

[LAwLz]

26 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

In this situation the only people who would have to worry if it's entrapment or not are pedos who go to these sites knowing fully what the sites are for and what they want to do on them.  Innocent people like myself don't go or know about those sites and thus have nothing to fear.  

If you don't understand why entrapment is bad then I don't think we have anything else to discuss here. Your hared for pedophiles is clouding your logic and reasoning skills.

You're also ignoring the facts and hard numbers proving that this is a terrible idea that does more harm than good.

[Bleedingyamato]

17 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

Like I said, there's a difference between a pedophile and a child rapist.

A pedophile can't help being a pedophile, that's just how they are. I'm sure that you couldn't just stop being attracted to adults. The only problem arises when they try to act on it and attack children or do other inappropriate and harmful things, and that is something entirely different.

 

Pedophiles who just look at pictures and stuff online are almost certainly harmless, they're not hurting anyone. The people making those pictures are, and so they should be stopped. Unfortunately, the FBI doesn't care about that.

I'm pretty sure if you told someone that thousands of people were getting sexual gratification from looking at naked pictures of them this person would have a huge problem with that at any age.  So in that sense they are hurting people by being pedos.

 

To use myself in an example:  

 

If I were to find out that people were doing disgusting things with pictures of me at age 8 lets say I'd be no less horrified and feel no less violated than if I was 29 (current age) in those pictures.  Also even if I didn't know it was happening the fact is I'd still be victimized in some sense.

[Bleedingyamato]

10 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If you don't understand why entrapment is bad then I don't think we have anything else to discuss here. Your hared for pedophiles is clouding your logic and reasoning skills.

You're also ignoring the facts and hard numbers proving that this is a terrible idea that does more harm than good.

I hate criminals in general.  Like most law abiding decent human beings.

 

Sorry if I'm wrong but it sounds almost like you're defending criminals?  

 

The fbi using questionable tactics doesn't make what these people do any less illegal.

 

To be fair you keep ignoring the fact that I've stated more than once that I do NOT support the FBI hosting these porn sites nor do I think it's a good idea to provide actual child porn on them while trying to catch pedos.

 

I simply said that I don't care if the FBI is tricking criminals.  

 

Which they're only partially doing since people go to these child porn sites knowing fully what the sites are for and are fully willing to commit criminal acts when using those sites. 

 

So yes the FBI should find a better way to deal with this problem.  

 

 

 

Anyway I've said what I wanted to so I won't post in your topic anymore.  I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I respect your right to your opinion as I hope you'll respect my right to mine.  

[Dash Lambda]

1 minute ago, Bleedingyamato said:

I'm pretty sure if you told someone that thousands of people were getting sexual gratification from looking at naked pictures of them this person would have a huge problem with that at any age.  So in that sense they are hurting people by being pedos.

 

To use myself in an example:  

 

If I were to find out that people were doing disgusting things with pictures of me at age 8 lets say I'd be no less horrified and feel no less violated than if I was 29 (current age) in those pictures.  Also even if I didn't know it was happening the fact is I'd still be victimized in some sense.

In that context, I think the FBI is doing WAY more harm by making sure that those pictures go out to anybody who wants them.

 

I don't think that assertion is valid, though. The people making it are the ones violating children, they're the root problem.

You seem to think that laws exist solely to punish people for doing things that other people think are bad, which should not be the case. Laws are supposed to protect people from those who intend harm, which is not applicable to people consuming media. 

[LAwLz]

2 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Sorry if I'm wrong but it sounds almost like you're defending criminals?  

No I am not. I have not once in this thread said anything which I think can be interpreted as defending criminals. The only thing I have done is say that this strategy does not work, at all. This strategy is so bad that it is causing a huge amount of damage, and very little results outside of that.

Disagreeing with the law enforcement's current tactics, and defending criminals are on separate ends of the spectrum. I want the FBI to change their strategy because I actually care about the efficiency of it, and what impact it has on the actual victims. Their current one just makes the situation worse for the victims, makes the situation better for the pedophiles, and costs a lot of money. Your tax money is literally going towards upgraded servers hosting child porn, and the pedophiles are thanking the FBI for it (while simultaneously not getting caught).

 

 

7 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

To be fair you keep ignoring the fact that I've stated more than once that I do NOT support the FBI hosting these porn sites nor do I think it's a good idea to provide actual child porn on them while trying to catch pedos.

It's good that we agree on that.

[Derangel]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Sure, it's not like you stumble across websites like this, but how can you even say that it is OK for the FBI to distribute and expand the pedophile rings just so that they can catch a few people which are the low hanging fruit?

 

Have you not thought this through, or do you just have a irrational hatred for pedophiles and is willing to cause more harm than good when trying to catch them?

For crying out loud, the FBI supplied over 30,000 extra people with child porn, just so that they could catch a bit over 100.

 

Let's be 100% objective here.

• Victimless crimes are really, really stupid. They are essentially thought crimes.
• Producing child porn is really, really bad and for sure has a victim (assuming it is not the child itself creating, like in the sexting cases that we see popup all over the place).
• Downloading child porn is not a victimless crime only if you agree that it does harm to the person in the video by exposing it to more people, which makes the person in the porn feel bad.

What the FBI did was not only allow the further spread of the porn to happen (which is the part which harms the victims), but they actively tried to increase the amount of users who had access to it.

Even the music and film industry association will tell you that

 

 

Think of it like this.

Imagine if there were 10,000 cases of murder in the US during 2016. Imagine if it was revealed that the FBI was responsible for 6,000 of those. They murdered 6,000 people in order to catch the criminals who caused the remaining 4,000. Their efforts had lead to about 10 people being charged for murder. Would you want them to keep going on murdering people, or just stop killing people so the number of deaths would drop to less than half? Oh, and they were also handing out free weapons to people they suspected were murderers.

 

The FBI are doing worse crimes and the ones they are arresting, and they are making the entire situation worse for the victims too, and all that to catch a pathetic attempt of pedos. How anyone can side with the FBI on this is beyond me. Do people just throw reason and logic out the window as soon as children are involved? If you want to stop child porn then maybe you shouldn't be the biggest distributor of it.

 

 

 

 

And you can not compare this to the police pretending to sell drugs because they arrange a meeting and then catch the criminal at the point where the exchange was arranged to happen. In this case they have provided (on one site alone, out of the 23 they run) child porn to over 44,000 users, and managed to catch a bit over 100.

Pretending to sell drugs has a near 100% catch rate (when the person shows up). If you're responsible for over 50% of the crimes, and you're doing it to catch 0.3% of the criminals then it's time to change strategy.

You're bringing subjects into this that I never mentioned. Whether or not it's entrapment has absolutely nothing to do with how effective it is. Don't try to turn a conversation away from it's point by trying to expand or confuse the issue. My original post was solely about whether or not this counted as entrapment. What you are doing is bringing in other issues unrelated to the initial point to avoid admitting that you're wrong or you have no valid argument against my simple statement.

 

I will not discuss my opinions about the effectiveness of the operation or my feelings about pedophiles. I am incapable of being objective when it comes it discussing subhuman fifth like pedophiles.

[PepperButt]

posted by the guy that has a loli as a profile picture  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[DXMember]

 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, PepperButt said:

posted by the guy that has a loli as a profile picture  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Don't judge. 

[Prysin]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Don't judge. 

 

1 hour ago, PepperButt said:

posted by the guy that has a loli as a profile picture  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

also, aslong as the character depicted is not participating in sexual content, or if it is, does not reveal it's age, be it in the manga or anime. According to Japanese law (which is the country where this character originates from), it is not legally considered child pornography, regardless of how questionable it looks.

 

If you think cartoons are bad, look at real lolita porn. I could link you to models you'd swear was younger then 18, but i wont as that will be against ToS.

[TidaLWaveZ]

On 11/11/2016 at 5:40 PM, keNNySOC said:

#MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

They've been doing this for years, nothing to do with Trump.

[TidaLWaveZ]

It may be news that the FBI owns half of the sites, but it's publicly known that the FBI has been doing this for years.  I'd link some 2 year old news articles, but there are some keywords involved that I'm not going to search for at work. 

[ZimFreak]

If you think 23 is half of all CP websites...

[JaeDee884]

if it was catching the majority of those who access the sites, i would be some what ok, but i doubt the "over 100" figure claimed is even a small part of the traffic, so ineffective. for every one caught, how many go uncaught and with full access to the disturbing images. 

[vanished]

Oh, I think I just found the perfect video to represent entrapment  

So yeah, even though what they're doing isn't ok imo, it's not this  

[PhoenixBlaster42]

On 11/11/2016 at 4:48 PM, LAwLz said:

Well there is one thing to seize a website and then start using it as a honeypot, and another thing to seize it, upgrade it and make it more popular. Hell, I'd say that honeypots (especially at this scale) is very close to entrapment.

Or you know, just shut the website down and all of a sudden the majority of child porn distribution will be gone.

 

 

That was one out of the 23 websites they operate.

 

Its not entrapment. Not even close, entrapment is when law enforcement make someone do something illegal they usually wouldnt do. I mean, people who view CP will view CP, they werent forced to do it.You wont find someone just go on a CP distribution site because its a good site. You'll find more paedophiles viewing the site but not regular people. 

Im not completely agreeing with what the FBI did but look at it this way. The people who went on those sites are going to view CP somewhere, wouldnt it be better if you get paedophiles on one site where they're monitored? Also, just shutting down sites isnt going to do anything. Its like shutting down Piratebay or Kickass. A new one will pop up, someone probably has a backup somewhere of the site.