Apple "Hello again" Live Stream

[Doobeedoo]

Bye again.

[pk-man]

The 13" touch model has a more power hungry CPU and small battery than the base model and yet still retains the same battery life.  WTF?? 

 

Looks like the price was jacked up too.  Lack of type A ports and SD card reader means you'll still need plenty of dongles.

[Nowak]

4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'm fine with it since I think the market needs a kick in the ass to get going. How many HDDs, phones, mice, keyboards, flash drives, etc... have you seen with type-c? How many motherboards even include a single type c connector? How many include two? All of those numbers are pitifully low even though we've had type-c for a couple years now. The market needs something (or someone) to be a force to drive them to actually bother with type-c. The unfortunate truth is there is no good way to transition very important standards. 

Ya know... Did you even get my point about the VGA port? It was still on laptops up until this year, and while the port was still there people gradually phased it out in favor of better things. That is how you do it. Don't force it, gradually get people used to it. It'll lead to a lot less frustration (and a lot less dongle life) just to get the things done like the way how you do it now. Apple should have arranged it two USB-C, two USB-A. That way, people will get adjusted to USB-C things, without all the frustration dongles and adapters lead to right now, and without having to cut back on productivity because they can't find an adapter so they can plug in their flash drive or SD card.

 

4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

What if your screen breaks? then you can't see anything. Or your ssd/ram/cpu/gpu dies? then it won't work at all. As long as there is no design problem then it's fine since it's unlikely to break. The biggest that I've actually seen point out is that it will make the LCD display look bad in comparison (which I just think is funny).

Everything glass is prone to breaking. Some glass is more vulnerable to breaking than others (see: sapphire glass). Moot point.

 

4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

It serves more use cases than just emojis. You can basically put whatever you want there (as long as the developer chooses to support it).

Yes, of course. But they dedicated an entire segment to emojis. Are they trying to reposition the MacBook Pro as a consumer laptop or something, instead of... y'know, a professional product? The touch bar in general looked pretty clunky and cumbersome to use in that demo.

[Arri]

After looking at these prices... I think I might get a refurbished 2015 MBP 15" instead. Was reading Reddit and they were discussing what @djdwosk97 already pointed out and it was the price hike across all the MacBook Pros. Even without the touch bar, this year's base 13" MBP is $200 more than the last one and the 15" MBP starts at like $2400 or some shit (i think the last 15" base started at like $2000?).

 

I think I'll skip these MBP's and keep the old processors, old keyboard, SD card reader, and lit apple logo (not that important but it is a nice touch).

[79wjd]

12 minutes ago, Arri said:

After looking at these prices... I think I might get a refurbished 2015 MBP 15" instead. Was reading Reddit and they were discussing what @djdwosk97 already pointed out and it was the price hike across all the MacBook Pros. Even without the touch bar, this year's base 13" MBP is $200 more than the last one and the 15" MBP starts at like $2400 or some shit (i think the last 15" base started at like $2000?).

 

I think I'll skip these MBP's and keep the old processors, old keyboard, SD card reader, and lit apple logo (not that important but it is a nice touch).

The base (non-oled) 13" is priced the same as last years 13" with a 256gb ssd. It's just that the Broadwell 13" also had a 128gb variant that was $1300. And the $2000 15" had no iGPU and a 256gb SSD. So the non-oled 13" is priced the same, the 15" is priced the same (as the dGPU Haswell variant). The 13" oled is more expensive, and the 15" iGPU only doesn't exist (I'm guessing there are supply issues with Skylake Iris Pro).

 

But I can definitely see going with the Haswell 15" and saving money (especially since they should be even cheaper now), and depending on your use case just as good. My workflow wouldn't change at all with the new Macs since a Haswell i7 and 16gb of RAM is still plenty for my needs. 

 

1 hour ago, Daring said:

Ya know... Did you even get my point about the VGA port? It was still on laptops up until this year, and while the port was still there people gradually phased it out in favor of better things. That is how you do it. Don't force it, gradually get people used to it. It'll lead to a lot less frustration (and a lot less dongle life) just to get the things done like the way how you do it now. Apple should have arranged it two USB-C, two USB-A. That way, people will get adjusted to USB-C things, without all the frustration dongles and adapters lead to right now, and without having to cut back on productivity because they can't find an adapter so they can plug in their flash drive or SD card.

 

Everything glass is prone to breaking. Some glass is more vulnerable to breaking than others (see: sapphire glass). Moot point.

 

Yes, of course. But they dedicated an entire segment to emojis. Are they trying to reposition the MacBook Pro as a consumer laptop or something, instead of... y'know, a professional product? The touch bar in general looked pretty clunky and cumbersome to use in that demo.

I'd still rather have 4 usb-c ports than two usb-a ports, which will be useless to me in a couple years (I'm basically already at that point now anyway). The SD card is annoying, but most professionals likely didn't already use the SD card slot for two reasons, one being that a lot of professional cameras use CF or some other non-SD format, or because they want USB 3.0 speeds. 

 

Everything technology is prone to breaking. I'm far more concerned with a component issue than I am a screen breaking since I generally don't abuse my laptop. 

 

Even professionals like to screw around (and aren't working 24/7) and Apple also knows that a lot of general users buy MBPs.  

[Nowak]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'd still rather have 4 usb-c ports than two usb-a ports, which will be useless to me in a couple years (I'm basically already at that point now anyway). The SD card is annoying, but most professionals likely didn't already use the SD card slot for two reasons, one being that a lot of professional cameras use CF or some other non-SD format, or because they want USB 3.0 speeds. 

But that is how you feel. Doesn't mean everyone will feel the same way (especially non-techies, who are more resistant to change).

[79wjd]

Just now, Daring said:

But that is how you feel. Doesn't mean everyone will feel the same way (especially non-techies, who are more resistant to change).

And yet, people still bought the 12" Macbook with it's one and only one non USB-A port. 

[Nowak]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

And yet, people still bought the 12" Macbook with it's one and only one non USB-A port. 

Yeah. I mean, people will buy literally anything Apple, regardless of how good or practical it is.

[Arri]

37 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The base (non-oled) 13" is priced the same as last years 13" with a 256gb ssd. It's just that the Broadwell 13" also had a 128gb variant that was $1300. And the $2000 15" had no iGPU and a 256gb SSD. So the non-oled 13" is priced the same, the 15" is priced the same (as the dGPU Haswell variant). The 13" oled is more expensive, and the 15" iGPU only doesn't exist (I'm guessing there are supply issues with Skylake Iris Pro).

 

But I can definitely see going with the Haswell 15" and saving money (especially since they should be even cheaper now), and depending on your use case just as good. My workflow wouldn't change at all with the new Macs since a Haswell i7 and 16gb of RAM is still plenty for my needs. 

Yea I'm deciding between these two. 2nd option has better processor, more storage, and dedicated GPU. I could do without the dGPU and better processor but the 512gb of storage might be worth the extra dough. These refurbished MBPs are pretty stellar value regardless of the new MacBooks.

 

 

[79wjd]

 

20 minutes ago, Arri said:

Yea I'm deciding between these two. 2nd option has better processor, more storage, and dedicated GPU. I could do without the dGPU and better processor but the 512gb of storage might be worth the extra dough. These refurbished MBPs are pretty stellar value regardless of the new MacBooks.

 

 

The CPU difference is irrelevant, and for the extra $280 I'd personally go with the new 15" (with an even better CPU, GPU, display, OLED bar, and trackpad -- assuming the keyboard is good).

 

But between those two, I'd personally take the cheaper one any day, but then again, I don't want a dGPU and I have most of my stuff on a NAS, so I don't need more than 256gb storage (there are also good SD card solutions that sit flush with the body for adding mass storage if you don't need SSD speeds).

[Arri]

10 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

 

The CPU difference is irrelevant, and for the extra $280 I'd personally go with the new 15" (with an even better CPU, GPU, display, OLED bar, and trackpad -- assuming the keyboard is good).

 

But between those two, I'd personally take the cheaper one any day, but then again, I don't want a dGPU and I have most of my stuff on a NAS, so I don't need more than 256gb storage (there are also good SD card solutions that sit flush with the body for adding mass storage if you don't need SSD speeds).

The equivalent 2016 15" with dGPU and 512gb of storage is $480 more. Of course, I'm comparing refurbished to new but is still a hefty sum but you are correct it does include better speakers, cpu, gpu, display, trackpad, and touch bar. Also lighter and thinner design. I think I'll do what you do and have an external solution for other stuff. Gah... the decisions. I need to be richer!

 

I really wish there was a iGPU 2016 MBP 15" for $2000. I think that would have been the no brainer.

[simson0606]

1 hour ago, Arri said:

After looking at these prices... I think I might get a refurbished 2015 MBP 15" instead. Was reading Reddit and they were discussing what @djdwosk97 already pointed out and it was the price hike across all the MacBook Pros. Even without the touch bar, this year's base 13" MBP is $200 more than the last one and the 15" MBP starts at like $2400 or some shit (i think the last 15" base started at like $2000?).

 

I think I'll skip these MBP's and keep the old processors, old keyboard, SD card reader, and lit apple logo (not that important but it is a nice touch).

I bought my rmbp 15 2015 just a few weeks ago, and 'm happy i didn't wait. The new one is a bit of a downgrade in my opinion (the bar is cool though). 

[Arri]

1 minute ago, simson0606 said:

I bought my rmbp 15 2015 just a few weeks ago, and 'm happy i didn't wait. The new one is a bit of a downgrade in my opinion (the bar is cool though). 

Here are my biggest downsides for the new MBP.

 

#1. The cost of entry is super high. $2400 starting for 15" is a bit ridiculous Apple.

#2 keyboard using butterfly (its 2.0 so idk how much better it is but 1.0 SUCKS).

#3 No magsafe

#4 No SD card slot

 

Other than that. It's still a really stellar machine. Better screen, better processors, faster storage, better speakers, better trackpad, touch bar and touch ID.

 

Again the biggest thing for me is the cost of entry, seeing how the May 2015 MBPs are still fantastic computers and even more so with their inevitable price drops.

[atrash]

No magsafe and that butterfly switch keyboard alone are enough to put me off from upgrading. And maybe the price too. As a heavy CAD user, key travel and physical escape key are too important for me to be messing with.

 

I don't get it. Why bother making it thinner when you'd still end up carrying multiple thick dongles anyway? The powerbrick is probably the same size/weight too. Should've kept the old laptop size/thickness and just improve the battery a little bit more. 

 

I'm keeping my late 2013 rmbp no doubt. 

[pk-man]

 

gotta make money with adapters

[TheReal1980]

1 hour ago, pk-man said:

 

gotta make money with adapters

That guy seem butt hurt, nothing to contribute but negative things. Useless.

[WillG]

Mac Pro remains outdated and overpriced.

[TidaLWaveZ]

I actually read through this, so at least I'm informed of what I'm not interested in.

[pk-man]

2 hours ago, TheReal1980 said:

That guy seem butt hurt, nothing to contribute but negative things. Useless.

I think it's a valid criticism.  The fact that multiple apple devices can't be connected without adapters is just bad design. I'd say it's probably intentional to get people to buy such adapters. 

 

The new MBP is quite disappointing. The touchbar isn't new as it's been done on other laptops.  I'm sure some people will find a use for it, but it just looks like a gimmick to get people to buy more expensive models.  If Apple really thinks it's an innovative feature, why is it not offered on all models?

[79wjd]

6 hours ago, Arri said:

The equivalent 2016 15" with dGPU and 512gb of storage is $480 more. Of course, I'm comparing refurbished to new but is still a hefty sum but you are correct it does include better speakers, cpu, gpu, display, trackpad, and touch bar. Also lighter and thinner design. I think I'll do what you do and have an external solution for other stuff. Gah... the decisions. I need to be richer!

 

I really wish there was a iGPU 2016 MBP 15" for $2000. I think that would have been the no brainer.

riiight, I forgot that the base 15" doesn't havea 512gb SSD (mkay apple).

 

I suspect there may be one at some point, but for now I'm assuming there are supply issues with HD 580.

5 hours ago, Arri said:

Here are my biggest downsides for the new MBP.

 

#1. The cost of entry is super high. $2400 starting for 15" is a bit ridiculous Apple.

#2 keyboard using butterfly (its 2.0 so idk how much better it is but 1.0 SUCKS).

#3 No magsafe

#4 No SD card slot

 

Other than that. It's still a really stellar machine. Better screen, better processors, faster storage, better speakers, better trackpad, touch bar and touch ID.

 

Again the biggest thing for me is the cost of entry, seeing how the May 2015 MBPs are still fantastic computers and even more so with their inevitable price drops.

1. booo

2. more than likely boo (which really concerns me actually)

3. Griffin Breaksafe

4. meh

 

Honestly, it's really only the cost/keyboard that concerns me.

4 hours ago, atrash said:

No magsafe and that butterfly switch keyboard alone are enough to put me off from upgrading. And maybe the price too. As a heavy CAD user, key travel and physical escape key are too important for me to be messing with.

 

I don't get it. Why bother making it thinner when you'd still end up carrying multiple thick dongles anyway? The powerbrick is probably the same size/weight too. Should've kept the old laptop size/thickness and just improve the battery a little bit more. 

 

I'm keeping my late 2013 rmbp no doubt. 

No magsafe is annoying, but at least there are third party magsafe options. So at least imo, it's worthwhile to move to a more common standard. You can remap the esc key, although key travel is a concern, but hopefully gen 2 is much better than gen 1 (plus there are some users who do really like the 12" Macbook keyboard after getting used to it -- I can potentially see myself liking it since I generally prefer shorter travel distance keyboards, but in all of my 5 minutes of using the 12" Macbook I did not like it).

 

To make it lighter and a lot of people were still buying Airs because of the size/weight. So they're just doing what people want in that regard. And most people aren't going to need many adapters -- most people don't plug that much stuff into their laptop.

 

Me too, although there wasn't ever really a chance I would upgrade since my Mac is more than fast enough, and presumably will be for at least another three years.  

21 minutes ago, pk-man said:

I think it's a valid criticism.  The fact that multiple apple devices can't be connected without adapters is just bad design. I'd say it's probably intentional to get people to buy such adapters. 

 

The new MBP is quite disappointing. The touchbar isn't new as it's been done on other laptops.  I'm sure some people will find a use for it, but it just looks like a gimmick to get people to buy more expensive models.  If Apple really thinks it's an innovative feature, why is it not offered on all models?

I don't know if it's intentional or just an oversight. Regardless, things are being fragmented now...

 

A touchbar has been done before, but the functionality has been pretty limited and the implementation poor. So far, the touch bar looks like it's implemented really well and will get plenty of support from developers/apple themselves. Supposedly cost is the reason. In an interview with CNET, Phil Schiller said:

"But we don’t design for price, we design for the experience and the quality people expect from Mac. Sometimes that means we end up at the higher end of the range, but not on purpose, just because that’s what it costs.”

which just sounds like so much bs, but I'd believe the touch bar added a decent bit of cost (between materials, software/api development, and RnD), although I doubt that cost was the $300~ upcharge (although a better iGPU is also included in that $300), and $200~ for the 15" model. 

[AxeFire]

could have turned that giant trackpad into another retina display 

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, AxeFire said:

could have turned that giant trackpad into another retina display 

I'm pretty sure that's there (long-term) plan actually (that's just my guess though).

[ZetZet]

7 hours ago, Arri said:

Here are my biggest downsides for the new MBP.

 

#1. The cost of entry is super high. $2400 starting for 15" is a bit ridiculous Apple.

#2 keyboard using butterfly (its 2.0 so idk how much better it is but 1.0 SUCKS).

#3 No magsafe

#4 No SD card slot

 

Other than that. It's still a really stellar machine. Better screen, better processors, faster storage, better speakers, better trackpad, touch bar and touch ID.

 

Again the biggest thing for me is the cost of entry, seeing how the May 2015 MBPs are still fantastic computers and even more so with their inevitable price drops.

Battery decreased from 74.9 whr for 13 inch to 49.4 whr.

[79wjd]

9 minutes ago, ZetZet said:

Battery decreased from 74.9 whr for 13 inch to 49.4 whr.

Yet it's still rated at 10 hours (the same-ish as the previous model), and Apple's battery life estimates tend to be fairly representative of what you can expect in real world use. 

[ZetZet]

22 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Yet it's still rated at 10 hours (the same-ish as the previous model), and Apple's battery life estimates tend to be fairly representative of what you can expect in real world use. 

I'd rather it increased to 15 hours. Mbps were manageable size anyway. Now the Air is pointless. It weighs the same and still has a TN display.