EVGA responds to hot VRM area on GTX 10 series

[zMeul]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

Going by the pictures you posted and this PCB image:

EVGA is cooling the MOSFETs, because the pads were clearly indented.

 

For reference, this is MSI's PCB layout (the MOSFETs are right of the chokes):

http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=22264

 

Though they did at least put fins on the heatsink.

MSI has a heatsink that's actively cooled

EVGA's "fix" is a hack, not a fix

 

that's nVidia's PCB and as you can see there is a huge difference between it and EVGA's VRM

[Mira Yurizaki]

10 minutes ago, zMeul said:

MSI has a heatsink that's actively cooled

EVGA's "fix" is a hack, not a fix

MSI's main heat sink does not touch the VRMs at all:

 

Unlike Gigabyte's G1:

 

And what's cooling MSI's VRM's is a finned heat spreader (I mean, I guess you can call it a heat sink)

I guess that works out to their advantage and EVGA gone and goofed using a flat heat spreader.

 

Yeah, I might sound apologetic since I usually source my video cards from EVGA, but hey, they owned up to it, they're providing a way to mitigate the problem, and whether or not the card lasts for as long as I care is another thing.

 

But you know what? People still buy hardware from companies that goofed up in the past. If you're going to stop sourcing your parts from anyone who majorly goofed up, then you may as well not buy a computer. At the end of the day, as long as they're not consistently screwing up, I don't care.

[zMeul]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

MSI's main heat sink does not touch the VRMs at all:

 

Unlike Gigabyte's G1:

 

And what's cooling MSI's VRM's is a finned heat spreader (I mean, I guess you can call it a heat sink)

 

I guess that works out to their advantage and EVGA gone and goofed using a flat heat spreader.

 

Yeah, I might sound apologetic since I usually source my video cards from EVGA, but hey, they owned up to it, they're providing a way to mitigate the problem, and whether or not the card lasts for as long as I care is another thing.

 

But you know what? People still buy hardware from companies that goofed up in the past. If you're going to stop sourcing your parts from anyone who majorly goofed up, then you may as well not buy a computer.

EVGA:

FETs - mid-plate - radiator - airflow

 

MSI:

FETs - heatsink - airflow

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 minutes ago, zMeul said:

EVGA:

FETs - mid-plate - radiator - airflow

Uh, what? There is no radiator.

[zMeul]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

Uh, what? There is no radiator.

this is a radiator: 

 

radiator: heat exchangers used to transfer thermal energy from one medium to another for the purpose of cooling or heating

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

-snip-

In computer cooling lexicon that's called a heat sink. A radiator is something liquid cooling dumps its heat into the environment.

[MageTank]

3 hours ago, Paragon_X said:

I just did a visual check on mine and it seems the pads are making contact. But I will check it more when i open the card to add the pads.

And Fucking EVGA doesnt pick up calls nor answering emails, and they still haven't approved my request for the pads even though I am registered and all.

I am really pissed about this, i bought this card because supposedly EVGA is a premium manufacturer and the second reason was the supposedly good support and i have received neither of those two things. I just ordered pads my self to mod it (EK 2.0mm pads).

 

From what I can tell, they are handling GTX 1080 cases first, since they are the most at risk (higher overall heat generation passing over the VRM). 

 

As for everyone else attacking the company itself, answer this question. Find me a single company that has completely avoided mistakes like this. MSI sure couldn't avoid making boards that are straight up fire hazards back in the day. ASUS had the amazing ROG G751 laptop series that was plagued with terrible issues (shutting the lid turned the laptop off, regardless of power options). Gigabyte had the voltage sagging issue on the 990FXA UD3 that took 3 revisions to fix. Now compare the customer service of these companies against each other. Google who people believe have the best CS based on their personal experience with them. I am willing to bet EVGA comes out on top, simply because they go out of their way to satisfy customers. ASUS on the other hand, has notoriously bad CS. This isn't even a myth, it's a known fact at this point.

 

Are they above making mistakes like this? No. It is a clear design oversight, as their older cards did in fact have the pads installed. They came out and openly admitted it. Are they fixing it in the best possible way? Well, yes. This is the only way to properly fix it, short of a complete mass recall of all 1070/1080 ACX units. If you people are angry waiting this long to be approved for thermal pads, just wait until you have to wait weeks for your GPU period. They could have also demanded you ship your unit first, but they are upgrading peoples warranty options to Cross-ship, allowing them to receive an updated card first so that there is no downtime.

[Sauron]

On 22/10/2016 at 0:25 AM, potoooooooo said:

Why do people like EVGA so much? There is shit like this every generation

Say what you will, but this seems like a pretty classy way to respond to the issue. But it's also true that other companies (namely asus) have been nearly skinned alive for pretty much the same problem.

[zMeul]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

In computer cooling lexicon that's called a heat sink. A radiator is something liquid cooling dumps its heat into the environment.

not specifically

in my language, "heatsink" and "radiator" is the same word: radiator

 

[MageTank]

36 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Say what you will, but this seems like a pretty classy way to respond to the issue. But it's also true that other companies (namely asus) have been nearly skinned alive for pretty much the same problem.

If you've ever had to deal with their CS, you would understand why people don't hold their punches against ASUS. Had an M5A97 R2.0 die on me, and did my RMA request. They had the audacity to blame user error, saying I physically damaged the traces on the back of the board when installing it. "You must have scratched the board on a standoff". Problem is, board died under regular load, with a Phenom 965 BE in it. I even took pictures of the board as a precaution, as I had fears that it might get damaged in shipping. I was able to finally prove to them that I didn't cause the damage, but it was a 3 week process I would not wish on my worst enemy. 

 

I own two GTX 1070's from EVGA. I use custom fan curves on both (since day 1, as I never trust factory curves) and I have never had a problem out of my cards. Did I still request the free pads? Sure. Anything to prolong the longevity of my card is considered a boon. While the risk for these cards to spontaneously combust is low, the risk to their longevity by running the VRM that hot is still very real. I just don't plan on going on a witch hunt for an oversight that is being remedied in multiple ways. I also got an improved warranty out of it for free, so that is a plus.

 

People here will burn down a city if their GPU has an issue, but could care less about the many (sometimes serious) recalls on their vehicles. 

[meenmeen1103]

43 minutes ago, zMeul said:

not specifically

in my language, "heatsink" and "radiator" is the same word: radiator

 

If it's the same word, and both can be used, it makes sense to use the one less likely to cause confusion, though neither one would be wrong.

 

To the card issue. It's a compounded issue. The VRAM is getting too hot for two reasons:

 

1. In many cases the thermal pads aren't making full contact with all the VRAM chips

 

2. The VRM circuitry is dumping a lot of heat nearby, worsening the conditions for the VRAM chips nearby with an air gap between the chips themselves and the intended heat spreader.

 

The thinner thermal pad EVGA is shipping out is meant to remove heat from the VRM circuitry (chokes) and transfer it to the heat spreader (which the VRM mosfets are already doing for the most part). The chokes themselves aren't the problem, but can help transfer more heat away from the mosfets since the chokes are essentially just a metal (enamel coated copper) coil surrounded by more metal (these are the things that can cause coil whine). The wider thermal pad seems to further help transfer heat from the side of the PCB opposite of the VRM components themselves and onto the backplate, which wouldn't make as much sense in efficiency terms considering only the PCB design (where you would normally want to cool the chip itself instead of the immediate area it dumps heat into, effectively making this indirect cooling), but given the top heat spreader could already by oversaturated with heat, this is reasonable especially given this last point: There's still the issue of the VRAM not making proper contact with the top heat spreader, which seems to not be addressed yet by EVGA, or maybe they think their current indirect solution is good enough (and it may very well be).

 

I don't have an affected card, but if I did, I'd apply a thermal pad on the opposite side of the PCB from the VRM circuitry, and thicker pads on the VRAM chips, making sure it all makes contact this time. I'd skip applying thermal pads on the chokes in hopes of not blocking a tiny amount of potential airflow (this I could be wrong about, in which case doing both of EVGA's 'solutions' and adding the VRAM thermal pads would still be better than only doing what EVGA currently recommends). All of this is just an attempt to make a subpar cooler (subjective) work with the PCB design.

[Just Monika]

Have EVGA even started sending out the thermal pads? I requested the free pads on the first day they were available but haven't heard of anything besides the automated email sent after the request is made on their site.

[MageTank]

33 minutes ago, Weird Face said:

Have EVGA even started sending out the thermal pads? I requested the free pads on the first day they were available but haven't heard of anything besides the automated email sent after the request is made on their site.

From what I could gather on their forum, they are starting with the 1080 FTW lineup, and working their way down. Seeing as you have the next card in the lineup, you should be getting yours next. 

[DildorTheDecent]

On 02/11/2016 at 11:21 AM, Toha said:

What has me confused is I have one of the 1080s listed there except my 1080's part number has a BR after it so I don't know if that means I'm not affected or something.

BR, KR, and RX are just identifiers that EVGA use that relate to warranty status (usually)

 

If your part number is there then get the pads. 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

 

Buildzoid's statement regarding the issue. 

 

In short, don't be a smarty ass and just get the free thermal pad mod for the sake of your ftw.

 

Times like this is why I like amd for having better vrms more advanced monitoring even for their stock cards(for their flagship cards that is).

[d0nsen]

12 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Then that would be a problem for all of the graphics cards because EVGA's chokes are right ....

1: because their cards dont burst into flames

2: 

3: im not talking about singling out evga, im talking about making this issue any smaller than it is - 400€ bursting into flames not unfrequently. and thats the standard everybody has to be held to.

 

 

 

[Paragon_X]

19 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Then how is MSI's any different when I'm almost certain those cards operate under a similar fan curve?

 

I think we're picking on one company without looking at the others to make sure they're not doing anything wrong either. And I don't really feel like finding if anyone else compiled data for the other cards.

 

It would be like solely singling out VW for dieselgate. It was later found out that a lot of other car manufacturers weren't exactly telling the truth either.

 

EDIT: It just feels like to me since EVGA is held in high regard that people are looking for any excuse to bring them down. You know, the nail that sticks out the most gets pounded in first.

if i am not mistaken there is a comparison between MSI ASus and EVGA and MSI is below 85C while asus tops at around 66 and of-course EVGA is boiling hot at 100+ this is on guru3d if i am not mistaken

you can see it here. the last one is EVGA
http://imgur.com/a/J3pC7

[MageTank]

23 hours ago, Weird Face said:

Have EVGA even started sending out the thermal pads? I requested the free pads on the first day they were available but haven't heard of anything besides the automated email sent after the request is made on their site.

Check the EVGA thermal mod page. Both my 1070 SC and 1070 FTW say "Awaiting Shipment" now, which means both cards have been approved. It might have already updated for you.

[Just Monika]

13 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Check the EVGA thermal mod page. Both my 1070 SC and 1070 FTW say "Awaiting Shipment" now, which means both cards have been approved. It might have already updated for you.

Mine also says "Awaiting Shipment". Thanks for the heads-up!

[zMeul]

update: http://forums.evga.com/gaps-between-vram-chips-and-the-stock-thermal-pads-on-the-midplate-m2570619-p3.aspx#2576924

EVGA will add VRAM thermal pads and thermal paste in the VRM package 

Quote

Starting next week we will ship thermal grease, memory thermal pads, along with PWM thermal pads in the package. It is recommended to remove the existing grease on GPU and memory pads and apply the new ones. For any customers that did not receive memory thermal pads, please contact us so we can arrange it.

[meenmeen1103]

1 hour ago, zMeul said:

update: http://forums.evga.com/gaps-between-vram-chips-and-the-stock-thermal-pads-on-the-midplate-m2570619-p3.aspx#2576924

EVGA will add VRAM thermal pads and thermal paste in the VRM package 

Good to see they are addressing that issue, yet I find it interesting that some customers on that thread are reporting odd responses from EVGA representatives. I mean sure, the components that have catastrophically failed are all VRMs from what I've seen, so it's understandable that they would place priority on that issue, but given that their product (cooler) was found ineffective as applied, I would've hoped they didn't also overlook related/similar issues in the process of rectifying the prioritized one. I count that as two consecutive 'oops' moments. 

[Paragon_X]

Even though i am pissed about their fuck ups I have to admit they act fast for such a large company.

[zMeul]

EVGA GTX1070 FTW flaming out live on stream: https://www.twitch.tv/aerosimgaming/v/101518948

 

if you ave one of these cards and haven't ordered the thermal pads, can you at least film it when the card goes up in flames

[Space Reptile]

On ‎04‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 7:29 AM, d0nsen said:

 

the issue here is : hes using a sound card

[Dabombinable]

12 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

the issue here is : hes using a sound card

Why would that be a problem? When only the most expensive motherboards have integrated audio that comes close to a budget creative or Asus soundcard?