Apple thinking of making an A10 powered Macbook

[suicidalfranco]

 

Bits of code inside MacOS Sierra suggest that that Apple may be working on a ARM powered, most likely the A10 SoC, Mac. Tech Tastic, a dutch site, have taken the time to dig trough the kernel of Sierra and have found out that Sierra support give support to a new CPU family labbeled as "ARM Hurricane". The codename may point toward the A10 Fusion SoC or a variation of it considering Apple past nomenclatures for their SoC: A7 was Cyclone, A8 was Typhoon, A9 was Twister. 

Another clue that may point toward the existence of a ARM powered Mac is that with Sierra, app submitted by devs on the App Store, Apple is allowed to automatically convert those apps to work on a ARM based platform.

Quote

As TechTastic.nl states, developers no longer submit fully compiled binaries.

Instead, intermediary bit code is submitted which Apple uses to compile the binary code for the specific CPU architecture. Should Apple release an ARM-based Mac, developers wouldn’t need to re-submit their existing code nor would they need to add any ARM-specific code in order for their apps to run natively on ARM-based hardware.

“It is probably also one of the reasons why legacy applications have recently been removed from the App Store,” speculates the publication.

The advantages of ARM vs x86 are clear as hinted back in 2014 by Apple's former head of the Macintosh division:

Quote

If we follow this line of reasoning, the advantages of ARM-based processors vs. x86 devices become even more compelling: lower cost, better power dissipation, natural integration with the rest of the machine. For years, Intel has argued that its superior semiconductor design and manufacturing technology would eventually overcome the complexity downsides of the x86 architecture.

But that “eventually” is getting a bit stale. Other than a few showcase design wins that have never amounted to much in the real world, x86 devices continue to lose to ARM-derived SoC (System On a Chip) designs.

 

When reading this first i was ready to just close this off by simply bringing up Surface RT, but being Apple and since normal rules don't apply to Apple they may be able to pull it off, considering that devs also won't have to resubmit their apps to be compatible with it without requiring an inferior framework (yes, shots fired), this may end up a a great solution for the MacBook and even lead to cheaper Mac Mini. What bothers me though is how will this affect Bootcamping or triple booting with rEfit and also what will this mean for those apps that aren't available on the App Store.

 

source: http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/09/30/macos-sierra-code-suggests-apple-could-replace-intel-in-macs-with-custom-arm-chips/ 

[Volbet]

This was bound to happen and as of right now it seems like a brilliant move.

Apple is pretty much the only hardware company right now that has the ecosystem to support such a change.

 

Maybe it could even force Intel (or possibly AMD?) to up their mobil game. 

[zMeul]

didn't MS made a ARM powered Surface and the whole fucking world laughed at it?!

 

yep ... I triple-double Apple to make a ARM powered MacBook

[abazigal]

The only question isn't if Apple will replace intel with ARM, but when. Given Intel's increasingly erratic and unreliable update cycle, I would be more surprised if Apple hadn't been working on their own ARM MacBook all this time. 

[suicidalfranco]

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

didn't MS made a ARM powered Surface and the whole fucking world laughed at it?!

 

yep ... I triple-double Apple to make a ARM powered MacBook

That's what i thought at first, but this is Apple, Apple is the special kid who gets a pass on everything it does

[Tomsen]

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

didn't MS made a ARM powered Surface and the whole fucking world laughed at it?!

 

yep ... I triple-double Apple to make a ARM powered MacBook

Because MS and Apple are so similar. One been mostly a open platform for a wide variants of hardware, and the other a closed eco-system.

 

[PlayStation 2]

6 minutes ago, zMeul said:

didn't MS made a ARM powered Surface and the whole fucking world laughed at it?!

 

yep ... I triple-double Apple to make a ARM powered MacBook

Microsoft didn't execute the Surface RT correctly, that was the problem.

 

If Apple plays their cards right, they might pull this off.

[captain cactus]

The problem here is the Mac App Store. It's not even close to being the success Apple wants it to be like the iOS app store. I only use it for OS X updates, everything else comes from the internet. Chrome, Steam, LibreOffice, the entire Adobe suite, everything.  Those are compiled by their respective developers, not Apple. I doubt many developers will take their time and money to develop for an entirely different architecture when they know it won't sell nearly enough for them to make it worth their time.

 

What Apple should do is get an x86-64 licence and make their own chips with that.

[patrickjp93]

I don't believe this for a second. Apple's software engineers couldn't have been stupid enough to leave ARM code branches in an x86 binary that's shipping in production quality.

[Godlygamer23]

Just a quick note: I fixed the image in your post(the one displaying sample code) - it's been uploaded directly to the server as it wasn't displaying before.

[suicidalfranco]

4 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Just a quick note: I fixed the image in your post(the one displaying sample code) - it's been uploaded directly to the server as it wasn't displaying before.

thanks, tried to edit it three times now, didn't understood why it wouldn't show up

[suicidalfranco]

17 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

I don't believe this for a second. Apple's software engineers couldn't have been stupid enough to leave ARM code branches in an x86 binary that's shipping in production quality.

What is not to believe? It's there, right on Apple dev page. that link on the image does lead you to it 

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/releasenotes/General/APIDiffsMacOS10_12/Objective-C/Kernel.html

 

[MEC-777]

Read title, thought of AMD A10 APU.

[Rodinski]

They've been wanting (claiming) to do this for the past 5 years...

[Sauron]

It's a terrible move if you ask me, at least from the consumer's standpoint. Even if the OS runs on ARM, the ARM platform is inherently inferior to x86 and furthermore everyone else who makes mac os software will have to port their stuff over if this is to be more viable than Windows RT tablets. It's not the same as when they moved from PowerPC to x86, this time there are no performance benefits and the industry has no interest in supporting this platform with desktop(/laptop) oriented software. If this ever happens the resulting product will inherently be overpriced garbage with no benefits over the competition.

[Dash Lambda]

2 hours ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

The problem here is the Mac App Store. It's not even close to being the success Apple wants it to be like the iOS app store. I only use it for OS X updates, everything else comes from the internet. Chrome, Steam, LibreOffice, the entire Adobe suite, everything.  Those are compiled by their respective developers, not Apple. I doubt many developers will take their time and money to develop for an entirely different architecture when they know it won't sell nearly enough for them to make it worth their time.

 

What Apple should do is get an x86-64 licence and make their own chips with that.

This is the company that just released a laptop that uses a port practically nobody else (including Apple) is using yet, and then released a flagship phone without a headphone jack. Hell, Apple still isn't using the USB-C port for anything else and they just did a goddamn refresh of that machine.

 

I don't think they consider practical adoption at all, let alone care about it.

[potoooooooo]

2 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

I don't believe this for a second. Apple's software engineers couldn't have been stupid enough to leave ARM code branches in an x86 binary that's shipping in production quality.

The last few major releases have been a hot buggy sloppy mess compared to previous levels of polish and shine. I'm willing to believe it

[awesomeness10120]

I don't think it's an easy task to convert an entire X86 OS to AR. I think that's more work than Apple's engineer's would want.

[Zodiark1593]

Apple is probably the only company I know of willing to play Russian Roulette in the tech world. While most of those chambers are empty, it only takes one. 

 

The main factor is how reliant OSX is on third party (non Mac store) applications. Mac seems to no longer be the choice of demanding professionals outside of video editing and IOS development, top tier (the Pro line) performance decreases will probably not be a big factor as those that need performance favor workstations, nor is gaming for that matter. 

 

Unlike Microsoft (which would invariably be shooting itself in the face by going ARM only) Apple commands a tighter leash on OSX, and severing current third party apps to move to ARM may be a sacrifice they're willing to make. 

[patrickjp93]

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

What is not to believe? It's there, right on Apple dev page. that link on the image does lead you to it 

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/releasenotes/General/APIDiffsMacOS10_12/Objective-C/Kernel.html

 

While I will admit I was wrong, this isn't headed to MacBooks. Apple is trying to unify its platforms' looks and feels. I think Apple is aiming more at bringing MacOS to iPhones and iPads in the future.

[AlexGoesHigh]

One big ass problem that Apple has about app support is not everyone, hell, i'll even say most people, have apps that come outside the mac store, such as the entire adobe cc library and also chrome. Also, i'm pretty sure Adobe would like to not have the big pain in the ass of rewriting their mac libraries to ARM. My brother uses a mini and most of his apps come outside the mac store. 

 

I'm still of the opinion that a ARM powered mac is fucking suicide even for them, if they are preparing there's still a shit ton they still have to do for the ecosystem to be somewhat ready for the change, and for as much bragging they do about the power of their chips (which yeah its impressive in its own right) there's has to be a good reason why something like complete photoshop with all its features and a altered UI to be better suited for the ipad isn't available for the ipad.

[mrchow19910319]

11 hours ago, zMeul said:

didn't MS made a ARM powered Surface and the whole fucking world laughed at it?!

 

yep ... I triple-double Apple to make a ARM powered MacBook

The 1st tablet that comes out was from Microsoft, Bill Gates himself hold it and present it to the world.

And the tablet runs windows XP. The world laughs at it too.

Then we all know what happened when iPad launched when Steve jobs presented it to the world. 

So... there is that. 

[mrchow19910319]

11 hours ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

The problem here is the Mac App Store. It's not even close to being the success Apple wants it to be like the iOS app store. I only use it for OS X updates, everything else comes from the internet. Chrome, Steam, LibreOffice, the entire Adobe suite, everything.  Those are compiled by their respective developers, not Apple.

That is a HUGE let down. What do you think about in macOS sierra apple removed supported app from unknown developers? I think apple still is trying to let every dev comes to their eco system. 

[Kimmers]

Being Apple, no doubt they are trying to get everything in their products from an in-house design. Intel has fumbled the ball several times with chip delays and that probably pisses Apple off (they same way Apple isn't updating their macbooks pisses us off xD).

 

[mrchow19910319]

9 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Unlike Microsoft (which would invariably be shooting itself in the face by going ARM only) Apple commands a tighter leash on OSX, and severing current third party apps to move to ARM may be a sacrifice they're willing to make. 

Yup. I don't think that Apple give a shit about 3rd party apps though. 

I think the ultimate goal for Apple is forcing every developer submit their apps through App Store to complete the eco system, therefore avoid malware as well as virus flooding into macOS. 

 

For apple what they need to do is to implement a smooth transition, either allow the 3rd party app devs to have a period of time to adjust their apps, or do so without offending the users. I think most of us do not want to find out all of a sudden the apps we downloaded directly from website stopped working in one day. Like adobe suite, alfred, as well as other stuff.