PS4 Pro announced along with Slim model

[Ivo]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

no AM1 PC is EVER going to let you compete with a console, even current PS4 will wreck a AM1 PC.

hmm you realize that only ting you care about on a console is that it can run a game, as far as everyone is concerned you can put a potato in there as long as it runs 1080 @ 30 fps people will buy it and defend it. Now your console has something better than AM1 compatible chip great, what does that matter when you can use AM1 chip and obviously get solid performance from a very cheap computer?? In the end it is the GPU that is crucial to game performance.

[GIGARAM]

i might get one just to add it to my collection. if sony start giving us some good games with psplus the last few have not been that good 

[Prysin]

Just now, Ivo said:

hmm you realize that only ting you care about on a console is that it can run a game, as far as everyone is concerned you can put a potato in there as long as it runs 1080 @ 30 fps people will buy it and defend it. Now your console has something better than AM1 compatible chip great, what does that matter when you can use AM1 chip and obviously get solid performance from a very cheap computer??

solid performance?
let me quote from keywords said by Jayz

"Stuttering"

"drops between 20s and 30s"

"bottlenecking a 380X"

"not a great gaming experience".

 

Any PC, today, below 450$ is just trash or "stopgap" setups. Or a HTPC.

 

I will also bring up the argument that Jayz did NOT include the price of a KB and mouse, which is essential to use a PC.

You have to remember that these "PC" builds are completely skewed towards biased insecure morons who tout the PCMR chant.

 

to compete with a console on price to performance you must also MATCH THE PACKAGE:

 

Current PS4 Pro package includes:
AMD custom silicon APU with slightly above R9 380X performance on the GPU side.

A wireless controller

A operating system

HDMI cable

Power cord

1 TB HDD (5400RPM toshiba/HGST?)

 

 

meaning your PC must have the following and match the price-point

CPU and GPU equivalent to PS4 Pro performance

A Keyboard and mouse

Operating system

1TB HDD

 

 

if you cannot make a build with those specifications then the PS4 is the default go-to option both in price and performance.

If you can match or surpass the specifications whilst staying within the price point, then congrats, you have built a "console killer".

 

Any argument outside of matching price to performance as USER EXPERIENCE is pointless.

[Ivo]

Just now, Prysin said:

solid performance?
let me quote from keywords said by Jayz

"Stuttering"

"drops between 20s and 30s"

"bottlenecking a 380X"

"not a great gaming experience".

 

Any PC, today, below 450$ is just trash or "stopgap" setups. Or a HTPC.

 

I will also bring up the argument that Jayz did NOT include the price of a KB and mouse, which is essential to use a PC.

You have to remember that these "PC" builds are completely skewed towards biased insecure morons who tout the PCMR chant.

 

to compete with a console on price to performance you must also MATCH THE PACKAGE:

 

Current PS4 Pro package includes:
AMD custom silicon APU with slightly above R9 380X performance on the GPU side.

A wireless controller

A operating system

HDMI cable

Power cord

1 TB HDD (5400RPM toshiba/HGST?)

 

 

meaning your PC must have the following and match the price-point

CPU and GPU equivalent to PS4 Pro performance

A Keyboard and mouse

Operating system

1TB HDD

 

 

if you cannot make a build with those specifications then the PS4 is the default go-to option both in price and performance.

If you can match or surpass the specifications whilst staying within the price point, then congrats, you have built a "console killer".

 

Any argument outside of matching price to performance as USER EXPERIENCE is pointless.

AMD custom silicon APU with slightly above R9 380X performance on the GPU side. do you have specs or proof?

 

also "if you cannot make a build with those specifications then the PS4 is the default go-to option both in price and performance."

 not true for people that want to do more than gaming lol

 

and wait so you got all this extra power now and what will you use it for? oh yeah true to run your 1080p games at 45-60 fps *slow clap

[Remixt]

23 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Dude, all consoles are "unreliable". There were plenty of PS3's to crap out on people too.

 

I owned an XB360, and it never died on me once. Worked great until the day I got rid of it. Plus, an XBOX 360 is a 11 year old product. Think about what using an 11 year old computer would be like...

 

The Devs will likely have 100% choice in this regard. Especially since many users will be buying a PS4 Pro and using it on a 1080p HDTV.

 

I have, and in my opinion, it's still uncomfortable, badly laid out garbage. Though it's an improvement, to be sure. This is entirely personal preference. I pick up an XBO controller (or an old 360 one), and it just feels 100% natural in my hand. Holding a DS controller (of any generation) feels like I'm holding an N64 controller that's upside down and backwards.

A much higher percentage of xbox 360's broke compared to ps3. I am 180 as far as the controller scheme opinion goes. I have never been able to use xbox controllers because of their clunkyness. The ps3 controller was okay and imo the ps4 controller is almost perfect.

[Prysin]

2 minutes ago, Ivo said:

AMD custom silicon APU with slightly above R9 380X performance on the GPU side. do you have specs or proof?

 

also "if you cannot make a build with those specifications then the PS4 is the default go-to option both in price and performance."

 not true for people that want to do more than gaming lol

 

and wait so you got all this extra power now and what will you use it for? oh yeah true to run your 1080p games at 45-60 fps *slow clap

why should i bother to repost "proof" that is in the beginning of this thread, as for the 380X, the performance numbers of said GPU is plastered all over the internet, and i cannot be bothered to spend time trying to explain how performance numbers between similar architectures even work. I am sorry to tell you this, but you do not come across as intelligent enough to be worth wasting more of my time on.

[Remixt]

6 minutes ago, Ivo said:

AMD custom silicon APU with slightly above R9 380X performance on the GPU side. do you have specs or proof?

 

also "if you cannot make a build with those specifications then the PS4 is the default go-to option both in price and performance."

 not true for people that want to do more than gaming lol

 

and wait so you got all this extra power now and what will you use it for? oh yeah true to run your 1080p games at 45-60 fps *slow clap

There is proof literally everywhere. Google it in < 5 seconds lol. Also this thread has specs in it already.

[Ivo]

22 minutes ago, Prysin said:

why should i bother to repost "proof" that is in the beginning of this thread, as for the 380X, the performance numbers of said GPU is plastered all over the internet, and i cannot be bothered to spend time trying to explain how performance numbers between similar architectures even work. I am sorry to tell you this, but you do not come across as intelligent enough to be worth wasting more of my time on.

Hah well same can be said for you because from the OP" The GPU component is where the action is. The GPU features over double the shading power of the PS4, and is based on the "Polaris" GPU architecture." and I am sure that your intelligent begin understands that 380x is Tonga architecture right? So now get off your high horse and lower your ego and try to argue your point even tho its obvious that you're very bias.

 

The whole idea here is that shit dirt cheap pc can rival your super mega great console and you cant stand it. I am sorry but that's how it is and that's fine, noone cares I am not against consoles just against this stupid flame war where people can not think objectively/ 

[MoonSpot]

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

--snip informed comment--

But can I run modded skyrim with loverslab mods, fudge around in the games command console to fix, make and tool around with things...for free?

PC gaming is about the power for the user to tune their experience, not about having a $5000 youtuber endorsed pewder that can do ultra on all the things.

Don't like walking around in the witcher 3 wearing ridiculous "armour" that suggests your a travelling jester instead of a bad ass that dishes out pain and death?  Change it, on PC.  DoF setting give you a headache?  Change it, on PC.  Want more FPS?  Fork around with settings, ini, xml, replace/supplant dlls, hacks or whatever, on PC.  Want to muck about with the game files and the assets developed because your curious, maybe learn something?  Can't do any of that on consoles, hard enough on PC as it is.

 

Or its just me.  :shrugs:

[Prysin]

20 minutes ago, Ivo said:

Hah well same can be said for you because from the OP" The GPU component is where the action is. The GPU features over double the shading power of the PS4, and is based on the "Polaris" GPU architecture." and I am sure that your intelligent begin understands that 380x is Tonga architecture right? So now get off your high horse and lower your ego and try to argue your point even tho its obvious that you're very bias.

 

The whole idea here is that shit dirt cheap pc can rival your super mega great console and you cant stand it. I am sorry but that's how it is and that's fine, noone cares I am not against consoles just against this stupid flame war where people can not think objectively/ 

do you even know shit about Polaris?
do you even know a single shit about GCN?

 

i am sorry to say, whilst you may think you do, you dont.

And atm you remind me heavily of Nanosuit.

[Prysin]

12 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

But can I run modded skyrim with loverslab mods, fudge around in the games command console to fix, make and tool around with things...for free?

PC gaming is about the power for the user to tune their experience, not about having a $5000 youtuber endorsed pewder that can do ultra on all the things.

Don't like walking around in the witcher 3 wearing ridiculous "armour" that suggests your a travelling jester instead of a bad ass that dishes out pain and death?  Change it, on PC.  DoF setting give you a headache?  Change it, on PC.  Want more FPS?  Fork around with settings, ini, xml, replace/supplant dlls, hacks or whatever, on PC.  Want to muck about with the game files and the assets developed because your curious, maybe learn something?  Can't do any of that on consoles, hard enough on PC as it is.

 

Or its just me.  :shrugs:

ive modded Skyrim for hours, hundreds of hours... to be honest, my PC setup is beyond what average people can afford or even have seen in their life. But i still play on consoles from time to time due to exclusives. As for my setup. I have worked 40 hours a week, every week for years to earn my money. Not a single screw of my setup is sponsored, if that is what you think.

[MoonSpot]

5 minutes ago, Prysin said:

ive modded Skyrim for hours, hundreds of hours... to be honest, my PC setup is beyond what average people can afford or even have seen in their life. But i still play on consoles from time to time due to exclusives.

Yea, I've got a small army of consoles too.  I'm just pointing out that what makes PC better(actually not terribly comparable). despite the greater expense, isn't necessarily better graphics, power, fidelity, etc..  Its a lot more, the community being a huge part of it, minus the PCMustardRace pigeons swinging solely the epeen part.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

@dalekphalm No offense, but it's not really confusing. It's not like you look down at your controller to make sure you're on the right button (and the button positions don't change). So Square on PS4 will always be the left button on a 360 controller, etc... 

In the heat of gaming, it damn well is confusing. Certainly, if I sat there over the course of dozens (or more) of hours of play, I would adapt and memorize key positions and their PS4 counterparts.

 

But I'd rather not do that. The PS4 is not so much better than the XBO for me to care to try and MacGyver in a solution. I'm sure I could make it work, but I have zero interest in doing so.

3 hours ago, Remixt said:

A much higher percentage of xbox 360's broke compared to ps3. I am 180 as far as the controller scheme opinion goes. I have never been able to use xbox controllers because of their clunkyness. The ps3 controller was okay and imo the ps4 controller is almost perfect.

I wouldn't say "much higher". At this point, both PS3 and 360 were well over 5% defect rate. Both of which is largely attributed to the initial manufacturing runs from both companies. They both had horrible reliability in the early gen versions, and both were improved over time and became largely very reliable in the later iterations.

 

To argue anymore about it is pointless.

 

That's awesome that you find the PS4 controller almost perfect. I'm happy for you. I'm not one of those people who will burn you at the stake if you use something different then me. I'm a PC Gamer at heart, and our number one advantage is choice. Whether that choice is a fully modded, custom build, watercooled PC, with modded Skyrim, or someone who loves gaming on a PS4, or anyone in between.

 

I happen to prefer the XBO controller - I also happen to prefer the XBO interface and the exclusives they offer (over PS4). The consoles are similar enough in performance that it really doesn't matter which one you choose. If anything, I'd get the XBO S w/ the 4K UHD Blu-Ray player, if I were forced to buy a console right now. I'd ignore the PS4 Pro completely, because my PC is already more powerful then it. The XB Scorprio sounds like a more interesting proposition to me over the PS4 Pro - of course, we don't know when the Scorpio will be released. Could be a few months, or it could be a year.

 

Anyway, the PS4 Pro is a step in the right direction, but I feel it was a huge missed opportunity by not including a 4K UHD Blu-Ray player on either the PS4 Pro or Slim, especially when the Slim's direct competitor - the XBO S - has it included.

[Remixt]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

In the heat of gaming, it damn well is confusing. Certainly, if I sat there over the course of dozens (or more) of hours of play, I would adapt and memorize key positions and their PS4 counterparts.

 

But I'd rather not do that. The PS4 is not so much better than the XBO for me to care to try and MacGyver in a solution. I'm sure I could make it work, but I have zero interest in doing so.

I wouldn't say "much higher". At this point, both PS3 and 360 were well over 5% defect rate. Both of which is largely attributed to the initial manufacturing runs from both companies. They both had horrible reliability in the early gen versions, and both were improved over time and became largely very reliable in the later iterations.

 

To argue anymore about it is pointless.

 

That's awesome that you find the PS4 controller almost perfect. I'm happy for you. I'm not one of those people who will burn you at the stake if you use something different then me. I'm a PC Gamer at heart, and our number one advantage is choice. Whether that choice is a fully modded, custom build, watercooled PC, with modded Skyrim, or someone who loves gaming on a PS4, or anyone in between.

 

I happen to prefer the XBO controller - I also happen to prefer the XBO interface and the exclusives they offer (over PS4). The consoles are similar enough in performance that it really doesn't matter which one you choose. If anything, I'd get the XBO S w/ the 4K UHD Blu-Ray player, if I were forced to buy a console right now. I'd ignore the PS4 Pro completely, because my PC is already more powerful then it. The XB Scorprio sounds like a more interesting proposition to me over the PS4 Pro - of course, we don't know when the Scorpio will be released. Could be a few months, or it could be a year.

 

Anyway, the PS4 Pro is a step in the right direction, but I feel it was a huge missed opportunity by not including a 4K UHD Blu-Ray player on either the PS4 Pro or Slim, especially when the Slim's direct competitor - the XBO S - has it included.

Yeah I don't really care if someone likes something different than me, but its always fun to see how far opinions can get from one another. I guess the Ps3 had a pretty high defect rate, but my ps3 still works fine and I bought it on release day. (2006) I guess that makes me a bit biased.

[79wjd]

25 minutes ago, Remixt said:

Yeah I don't really care if someone likes something different than me, but its always fun to see how far opinions can get from one another. I guess the Ps3 had a pretty high defect rate, but my ps3 still works fine and I bought it on release day. (2006) I guess that makes me a bit biased.

My 60gb PS3, that I also got on release day, died after I tried to play black op 1. (It would work for about an hour or so after a complete factory reset and then stop working again). 

[Mira Yurizaki]

Regarding that whole kerfuffle about how a "cheap ass PC totally blows a console out of the water"...

 

Well it really depends on what you're throwing in and most of the time these comparisons aren't truly fair because they exclude things that would tack on extra costs. Then PC gamers like to make it even more to their advantage by tacking on the second hand market, gray markets, and limited time offer deals.

 

So when you're ready to build a system that is really comparable on the hardware side and from official channels, then we might have a meaningful discussion about value. Otherwise the whole entire discussion is pointless.

[dalekphalm]

16 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Regarding that whole kerfuffle about how a "cheap ass PC totally blows a console out of the water"...

 

Well it really depends on what you're throwing in and most of the time these comparisons aren't truly fair because they exclude things that would tack on extra costs. Then PC gamers like to make it even more to their advantage by tacking on the second hand market, gray markets, and limited time offer deals.

 

So when you're ready to build a system that is really comparable on the hardware side and from official channels, then we might have a meaningful discussion about value. Otherwise the whole entire discussion is pointless.

Agreed - my favourite tactic of theirs is excluding an OS completely, then when you call them on it, they say "$20 on G2A".

 

Fuck that shit. G2A should basically be illegal. You have no idea whether you're getting an MSDN or Dreamspark key or one bought with a stolen credit card, etc. Microsoft makes no money off those keys. You might as well just pirate Windows if you're gonna buy a key off of G2A.

 

 

Please don't pirate Windows - if you can't afford it, use Linux and save up until you can

[Shepanator]

7 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I wouldn't say "much higher". At this point, both PS3 and 360 were well over 5% defect rate. Both of which is largely attributed to the initial manufacturing runs from both companies. They both had horrible reliability in the early gen versions, and both were improved over time and became largely very reliable in the later iterations.

 

The initial few 360 models had a 30% failure rate, did you forget about the rrod fiasco? Plus the fact that if you tilted the console while you were playing a game the disc would be chewed up. In fact, the 360 S still does this. I had to get my 360 replaced twice between 2006 and 2007.

 

Yeah the first ps3 model wasn't the most reliable thing ever but it definitely wasn't anywhere near as bad as the 360.

[suicidalfranco]

tfw i should delid my PS3's CPU. Already rebaled it to avoid the YLOD, now the thing sounds like a jet engine every single time. Want to delid it and try to replace the thermal paste between the CPU and the IHS and see if it makes it as silent as day one. But to afraid of damaging it. Don't know what to do any more with that reactor.

 

The PS3 is the reason why i'll never buy a console ever again: they are so fucking cheaply built! As if the RROD on my xbox wasn't enough of a pain to deal with. Glad i built myself a rig when the new generations got announced. Should have done it a long time ago, don't understand why i hesitated for so long

[Bouzoo]

So, HDR patches, according to a Japanese interview between Japanese website Game Impress Watch and Sony Interactive Entertainment exec Masayasu Ito:

 

Quote

Game Impress Watch: For the 4K HDR patch for existing titles, will it cost money? Or will it be free?

Ito: It will be different for each title. I believe it will depend on the thinking of each licensee.

Game Impress Watch: What about Sony Interactive Entertainment?

Ito: I think it will vary for each one of our titles.

Game Impress Watch: What you’re saying is that there will be titles that have a fee [for the patch] and [patches for the] titles that are free.

Ito: That is correct.

Game Watch Impress: From here on out, we can think that all the titles from SIE will completely support PS4 Pro?

Ito: Right. The first party titles we put out are going to certainly support both [4K and HDR].

http://kotaku.com/when-asked-if-ps4-pro-patches-would-cost-money-sony-sa-1786426018?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

 

I'm not sure if this is their greed, or they are covering all ends in case devs want money. Or actually both. 

[Vode]

16 hours ago, Prysin said:

solid performance?
let me quote from keywords said by Jayz

"Stuttering"

"drops between 20s and 30s"

"bottlenecking a 380X"

"not a great gaming experience".

 

Any PC, today, below 450$ is just trash or "stopgap" setups. Or a HTPC.

 

I will also bring up the argument that Jayz did NOT include the price of a KB and mouse, which is essential to use a PC.

You have to remember that these "PC" builds are completely skewed towards biased insecure morons who tout the PCMR chant.

 

to compete with a console on price to performance you must also MATCH THE PACKAGE:

 

Current PS4 Pro package includes:
AMD custom silicon APU with slightly above R9 380X performance on the GPU side.

A wireless controller

A operating system

HDMI cable

Power cord

1 TB HDD (5400RPM toshiba/HGST?)

 

 

meaning your PC must have the following and match the price-point

CPU and GPU equivalent to PS4 Pro performance

A Keyboard and mouse

Operating system

1TB HDD

 

 

if you cannot make a build with those specifications then the PS4 is the default go-to option both in price and performance.

If you can match or surpass the specifications whilst staying within the price point, then congrats, you have built a "console killer".

 

Any argument outside of matching price to performance as USER EXPERIENCE is pointless.

Ok that is true if you play single player games.

 

If you plan on playing Multiplayer on console you can add another 50 bucks for PS Plus or whatever that costs these days.

 

Other than that I agree with what you said.

 

 

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, Shepanator said:

 

The initial few 360 models had a 30% failure rate, did you forget about the rrod fiasco? Plus the fact that if you tilted the console while you were playing a game the disc would be chewed up. In fact, the 360 S still does this. I had to get my 360 replaced twice between 2006 and 2007.

 

Yeah the first ps3 model wasn't the most reliable thing ever but it definitely wasn't anywhere near as bad as the 360.

At this point they were both unreliable. arguing how much "more" unreliable the 360 was is pointless semantics. Both were WELL ABOVE industry standard RMA rates. Basically if your RMA rates are over 5%, you're pretty fucking terrible. Anything under 3% are good-to-excellent return rates. Both PS3 and 360 were above 10%, which is insane.

At this point we're arguing about which turd will fall apart first. They're both turds in the reliability department. And both issues were fixed in later revisions.

1 hour ago, Vode said:

Ok that is true if you play single player games.

 

If you plan on playing Multiplayer on console you can add another 50 bucks for PS Plus or whatever that costs these days.

 

Other than that I agree with what you said.

 

 

While this is true, both PSPlus and XBOX Live (XBL) give you free games every month, that you keep forever as long as you're a subscriber (and even if you cancel your account, and renew it like a year later, the games will still be there).

 

So it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. There's a LOT more value associated with these services then there used to be.

 

Not to mention that with XBL at least, you can get a year subscription on sale for as low as $20 or $30 every now and then.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

So it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. There's a LOT more value associated with these services then there used to be.

The games also tend to be older games, don't they? Games that would otherwise be dirt cheap on steam/humble bundle/GMG? (plus that also leads to another valid point in favor of a PC -- the games are much cheaper). I'm not saying consoles are bad, they are price competitive, they are more user friendly, and they are better if you frequently have people over.

[Bouzoo]

The train just keeps hitting Sony. This is regarding mods, straight from Bethesda.

 

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/ps4-mod-update/2016/09/09/199

 

Quote

PS4 Mod Update

After months of discussion with Sony, we regret to say that while we have long been ready to offer mod support on PlayStation 4, Sony has informed us they will not approve user mods the way they should work: where users can do anything they want for either Fallout 4 or Skyrim Special Edition.

Like you, we are disappointed by Sony’s decision given the considerable time and effort we have put into this project, and the amount of time our fans have waited for mod support to arrive. We consider this an important initiative and we hope to find other ways user mods can be available for our PlayStation audience. However, until Sony will allow us to offer proper mod support for PS4, that content for Fallout 4 and Skyrim on PlayStation 4 will not be available.

We will provide an update if and when this situation changes.

 

[dalekphalm]

36 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The games also tend to be older games, don't they? Games that would otherwise be dirt cheap on steam/humble bundle/GMG? (plus that also leads to another valid point in favor of a PC -- the games are much cheaper). I'm not saying consoles are bad, they are price competitive, they are more user friendly, and they are better if you frequently have people over.

The games are usually a generation old, and there are also older titles too, so they have titles as new as 6-months to 1-year old, which is really good.

 

Humble Bundle is also not really a good comparison. They work on a "pay what you want" model, in which the Devs/Studio usually get almost nothing (often only a couple bucks or even pennies). Humble Bundle is also not a reliable way to buy any games, because you have no idea what's gonna be coming up.

 

Steam Sales and GMG, sure that's a more valid comparison. And yes, we already know that Steam Sales offer excellent value for cheap games. I'm not discussing that. I was imply pointing out that PSPlus and XBL are not as worthless as some people think.

 

2 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

The train just keeps hitting Sony. This is regarding mods, straight from Bethesda.

 

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/ps4-mod-update/2016/09/09/199

 

 

I wonder what XBOX will do in response to this - follow Sony's lead, or see this as an opportunity to get great PR and steal some marketshare by enabling game Modding? I also love how the Publisher is fully willing to shit all over Sony in that quote.