PS4 Pro announced along with Slim model

[Shepanator]

It's cool that they're enabling HDR on all PS4s with an update, microsoft are forcing people to upgrade to the slim or scorpio if they want HDR

[oo2k15]

3 hours ago, dragosudeki said:

Wasn't the purpose of the new PS4 Pro was to introduce VR gaming to the consoles? Or did they scrap that after they saw how small the market was for VR headsets? Also, why not just call it the PS5 at this point, unless ALL games playable on the Pro version will be playable on the normal PS4 (which I think devs will eventually stop releasing full games on the older console).

Im guessing they went with PS4 Pro name scheme instead of PS5 because devs still developing games for PS4, and considering how PS4 games will work with the pro and vice versa. 

[Shepanator]

4 hours ago, dragosudeki said:

Wasn't the purpose of the new PS4 Pro was to introduce VR gaming to the consoles? Or did they scrap that after they saw how small the market was for VR headsets? Also, why not just call it the PS5 at this point, unless ALL games playable on the Pro version will be playable on the normal PS4 (which I think devs will eventually stop releasing full games on the older console).

Sony have said that all games released on ps4/ps4 pro must work on both versions, the media must be interchangeable (so there won't be separate ps4 and ps4 pro disks, they'll work on both), and finally devs aren't allowed to add any extra features to games on ps4 pro, the only improvements can be graphical.

If they don't adhere to these rules sony will block the game being published

[Kamina]

It's so ugly.

[Ze_Mako]

3 hours ago, Shepanator said:

It's cool that they're enabling HDR on all PS4s with an update, microsoft are forcing people to upgrade to the slim or scorpio if they want HDR

Not like that will matter since the PS4 has HDMI 1.4

 

HDR needs HDMI 2.0 and so on 

[VerticalDiscussions]

So this PS4 Pro is gonna run games with high settings at 1080p 60 fps or at least guarantee every game runs on 60 fps at such resolution? 4K content playback is nice tough, but then again the Xbox One S is not so much more advanced over the PS4/Xbox One and even allows for HDR content to be played and 4K content. Does this one aswell?

[Shepanator]

24 minutes ago, Ze_Mako said:

Not like that will matter since the PS4 has HDMI 1.4

 

HDR needs HDMI 2.0 and so on 

Sony said it themselves here

The physical connector and pin layout between hdmi 1.4 and hdmi 2.0a is identical, and the cable itself is just a dumb pipe. I wasn't aware myself you could upgrade hdmi versions but apparently you can.

[michaelocarroll007]

16 hours ago, arnavvr said:

PS4 = Xbox One

PS4 Slim = Xbox One S

PS4 Pro = Project Scorpio

Wait so 4K 30 is less demanding than 1080p60? I find that hard to believe.

4k 30fps is Easier for the CPU then 1080P 60fps Yes But GPU Wise Obviously not.  CPU is more dependent on Many other things besides resolution  Ussualy lower the frames the less the CPU has to work that is why anyone trying to play 144hz needs a good cpu 

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 hours ago, Shepanator said:

Sony said it themselves here

The physical connector and pin layout between hdmi 1.4 and hdmi 2.0a is identical, and the cable itself is just a dumb pipe. I wasn't aware myself you could upgrade hdmi versions but apparently you can.

Sony did it once with the PS3. It shipped with HDMI 1.3 then they updated it to 1.4 in order to support 3D outputs. So as long as the hardware is up to snuff, you can continue updating it.

 

Just don't see why any of the video card manufacturers do the same >_>

[Dabombinable]

16 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Sony did it once with the PS3. It shipped with HDMI 1.3 then they updated it to 1.4 in order to support 3D outputs. So as long as the hardware is up to snuff, you can continue updating it.

 

Just don't see why any of the video card manufacturers do the same >_>

They want all of the money...not just some of it.

[Sharkyx1]

12 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I'm really annoyed at something though with the two companies touting something their consoles can do: HDR.

 

See, back in 2005, Valve released this thing called Half Life 2: Lost Coast, which show cased "HDR Rendering". And then lots of other developers followed suit with some form of HDR rendering (coupled with a terrible use of Bloom and sometimes an exposure thing). And no, it wasn't just "make reflections and refractions shinier!", the processing for color was upped to 16-bit floating point values per pixel.

 

So what, did HDR fall off the map and all of a sudden it's brought up again?

 

EDIT: Also as a sanity check, someone did an HDR vs. standard lighting with bloom comparison of TES IV Oblivion and lo and behold, it's kind of like the HDR video demos I see at Best Buy.

 

Previously HDR referred to rendering a game in a larger color space and then clamping it on output so if the scene was mainly bright with a few dark spots it raises the black value, if it's mostly a black scene it lowers the bright point. 

 

Modern HDR is an increase in color space on the TV and unclamped color rendering 

 

Will edit with better explanation later 

[Mira Yurizaki]

47 minutes ago, Sharkyx1 said:

Previously HDR referred to rendering a game in a larger color space and then clamping it on output so if the scene was mainly bright with a few dark spots it raises the black value, if it's mostly a black scene it lowers the bright point. 

 

Modern HDR is an increase in color space on the TV and unclamped color rendering 

 

Will edit with better explanation later 

So basically the same thing without tone mapping it to an 8bpp display. Although you'd still have to tone map it because HDR back then was rendered in FP16 per color. Or INT16 if NVIDIA's initial white paper on it meant anything (they mentioned bumping the contrast ratio of gray-scale to 65535:1)

 

Either way I'm annoyed this is touted as the wave of the future and a nrw innovation when we've had this tech used semi extensively 10 years ago.

[Sharkyx1]

2 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

So basically the same thing without tone mapping it to an 8bpp display. Although you'd still have to tone map it because HDR back then was rendered in FP16 per color. Or INT16 if NVIDIA's initial white paper on it meant anything (they mentioned bumping the contrast ratio of gray-scale to 65535:1)

 

Either way I'm annoyed this is touted as the wave of the future and a nrw innovation when we've had this tech used semi extensively 10 years ago.

Lots of games use the older type of hdr on consoles, the big deal here is support for the larger color space on brand new 4k tvs it's the hdr that's part of the uhd Blu-ray standard. It's part of the hdmi 2.0 spec

[dalekphalm]

16 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

My biggest problem after that, was the horrible lifespan of the controller joysticks with the included controllers.

For the XBOX 360 controllers? I've never had a joystick wear out on me. I still have 3 360 controllers that I use for PC sitting on my desk. The only controller I've ever had the joystick wear out on me was N64, and even then, they usually lasted 10+ years.

16 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

FreeSync also requires DisplayPort.

Not anymore. As mentioned below by @MoonSpot, you can now enable FreeSync over HDMI, as long as the Panel itself in the TV is capable. TV manufacturers would still need to be on board, of course, but DP would not be a requirement at all.

15 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

Think that's changing as some do offer freesync over HDMI.  They're few and far between but would be one hell of a bonus for consoles if televisions supported it, AND supported it in the correct range(s).  Could even help tv manufacturers pitch their units as tits out for htpc entertainment units without costing them an extra red cent in manufacturing cost.  Gotta happen in TV's sooner or later.  As long as the protocol for it is up to snuff, why wouldn't it?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10104/freesync-over-hdmi-samsung-monitors-cf591-cf390

 

 

15 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I'm really annoyed at something though with the two companies touting something their consoles can do: HDR.

 

See, back in 2005, Valve released this thing called Half Life 2: Lost Coast, which show cased "HDR Rendering". And then lots of other developers followed suit with some form of HDR rendering (coupled with a terrible use of Bloom and sometimes an exposure thing). And no, it wasn't just "make reflections and refractions shinier!", the processing for color was upped to 16-bit floating point values per pixel.

 

So what, did HDR fall off the map and all of a sudden it's brought up again?

 

EDIT: Also as a sanity check, someone did an HDR vs. standard lighting with bloom comparison of TES IV Oblivion and lo and behold, it's kind of like the HDR video demos I see at Best Buy.

 

As @Sharkyx1 mentioned, those are 2 different technologies and implementations. I'll leave his explanation, since mine would do no better.

13 hours ago, Prysin said:

dont worry man, you're north american. So nobody expects you to like a Sony product.

Pfft. Me being North American has nothing to do with my loathe of the DS Controller. If PlayStation redesigned their controller to match the layout and shape of the XBO controller, I'd seriously consider buying a PlayStation immediately, for the exclusives.

13 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

There's probably a way to use a 360/XBONE controller on the PS4. It was possible to use a 360 controller on a PS3 with the XCM Cross Battle Adapter. 

Oh there are ways you can mod the cable yourself, or I'm sure some adapters are made. But it wouldn't change the on-screen buttons, etc, so it would just be a confusing mess.

11 hours ago, ElfenSky said:

 

There are ways of using Xbox controllers on PlayStation .

Agreed - but see above. Not worth the hassle to me.

3 hours ago, Sharkyx1 said:

Previously HDR referred to rendering a game in a larger color space and then clamping it on output so if the scene was mainly bright with a few dark spots it raises the black value, if it's mostly a black scene it lowers the bright point. 

 

Modern HDR is an increase in color space on the TV and unclamped color rendering 

 

Will edit with better explanation later 

Good explanation.

[Real_PhillBert]

To be honest I'm surprised it took Microsoft and Sony this long to introduce a beefed up option. Both the XBone and PS4 were fairly underwhelming from minute one, so it didnt take long for the PC to become competitive even at the console price. 

 

I was actually hoping the improvement would be larger than just a clock speed hike. 

[Prysin]

9 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

To be honest I'm surprised it took Microsoft and Sony this long to introduce a beefed up option. Both the XBone and PS4 were fairly underwhelming from minute one, so it didnt take long for the PC to become competitive even at the console price. 

 

I was actually hoping the improvement would be larger than just a clock speed hike. 

just a clock speed hike and 2x GPU performance.

 

but yes, 2x GPU perf isnt much. Let's focus on the CPU which isnt that important in consoles due to the nature of the low level API

[Magnetorheological]

8 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

To be honest I'm surprised it took Microsoft and Sony this long to introduce a beefed up option. Both the XBone and PS4 were fairly underwhelming from minute one, so it didnt take long for the PC to become competitive even at the console price. 

 

I was actually hoping the improvement would be larger than just a clock speed hike. 

If they didn't wait until now, they would have pretty pissed off customers. Average consumers are the target market for consoles, and they are likely more receptive to the anemic performance, due to them still being more powerful than last gen's consoles.

 

This generation did take way too long to develop and come to market, falling far behind PCs, but if they announce and put out the beefed up consoles say, a year after initial release, those average consumers would know that "it should have been better" and feel ripped off for buying them on release. A three year gap is a good amount of time for perceived technological advancement, and they can justify the beefed up consoles better this way.

[Mira Yurizaki]

55 minutes ago, Sharkyx1 said:

Lots of games use the older type of hdr on consoles, the big deal here is support for the larger color space on brand new 4k tvs it's the hdr that's part of the uhd Blu-ray standard. It's part of the hdmi 2.0 spec

Which translates to me the only thing that changed was how the image gets tone mapped to the output. 

 

It's like NVIDIA touting DSR as a fancy new feature when it's just SSAA under another name (granted it makes the app believe it's really rendering at that resolution, but it's still a form of SSAA)

[Real_PhillBert]

6 minutes ago, Prysin said:

just a clock speed hike and 2x GPU performance.

 

but yes, 2x GPU perf isnt much. Let's focus on the CPU which isnt that important in consoles due to the nature of the low level API

Yes, you're right that is an improvement. 

 

However a double performance boost over lackluster performance is still not a recipe for a great showing. 

[79wjd]

@dalekphalm No offense, but it's not really confusing. It's not like you look down at your controller to make sure you're on the right button (and the button positions don't change). So Square on PS4 will always be the left button on a 360 controller, etc... 

[Prysin]

9 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Yes, you're right that is an improvement. 

 

However a double performance boost over lackluster performance is still not a recipe for a great showing. 

(rofl)

 

you do realise the "PS4 Pro" as they call it, will have better performance then equally priced PCs?

 

400$

what does that give you?

nothing with equal performance unless you get something used (most likely for coin mining and half dead)

 

And even if you can build a equally priced PC, what do you get?

a ugly box that looks like shit, is 8 times larger in physical size and you still havent gotten a KB and mouse for it.

 

the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio will be "budget kings" until next gen CPUs and GPUs are out. I am not talking ZEN, i am talking ZEN+ and Navi/Volta.

[Real_PhillBert]

12 minutes ago, Prysin said:

(rofl)

 

you do realise the "PS4 Pro" as they call it, will have better performance then equally priced PCs?

 

400$

what does that give you?

nothing with equal performance unless you get something used (most likely for coin mining and half dead)

 

And even if you can build a equally priced PC, what do you get?

a ugly box that looks like shit, is 8 times larger in physical size and you still havent gotten a KB and mouse for it.

 

the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio will be "budget kings" until next gen CPUs and GPUs are out. I am not talking ZEN, i am talking ZEN+ and Navi/Volta.

I'm not saying there's no place for a console, I've never said such a thing. There is of coarse a place for them, I'm simply pointing out the value that was offered in the previous generation (ps3/xb360) was greater for their time period, that's why they had a much longer service life. 

 

A minute ago you were saying that CPU performance doesn't matter, now you are saying that we need to wait for the next generation desktop CPU's to be competitive, which I dont believe to be remotely accurate. 

 

Anywho, it was great talking to you  

[Ivo]

16 minutes ago, Prysin said:

(rofl)

 

you do realise the "PS4 Pro" as they call it, will have better performance then equally priced PCs?

 

400$

what does that give you?

nothing with equal performance unless you get something used (most likely for coin mining and half dead)

 

And even if you can build a equally priced PC, what do you get?

a ugly box that looks like shit, is 8 times larger in physical size and you still havent gotten a KB and mouse for it.

 

the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio will be "budget kings" until next gen CPUs and GPUs are out. I am not talking ZEN, i am talking ZEN+ and Navi/Volta.

 

[Prysin]

Just now, Real_PhillBert said:

I'm not saying there's no place for a console, I've never said such a thing. There is of coarse a place for them, I'm simply pointing out the value that was offered in the previous generation (ps3/xb360) was greater for their time period, that's why they had a much longer service life. 

 

A minute ago you were saying that CPU performance doesn't matter, now you are saying that we need to wait for the next generation desktop CPU's to be competitive, which I dont believe to be remotely accurate. 

 

Anywho, it was great talking to you  

for PCs CPUs matter, due to PC APIs and graphics drivers having much higher overhead then a console.

 

Current gen CPUs doesnt offer enough performance for their price to actually "push performance" fast enough to compete.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, Ivo said:

 

no AM1 PC is EVER going to let you compete with a console, even current PS4 will wreck a AM1 PC.