reportedly, MSI has serious issues with their GTX1070 cards in China

[SliceT]

On 06/08/2016 at 8:19 PM, Bhav said:

Their motherboards are currently failing as well, loads of people on their forums suddenly getting error codes with no post after months of use, for me its happened on both my original, and replacement board.

 

I've been trying to chase up a clear answer from MSI support why this issue is happening on so many of their mobos, but so far no answer.

 

I started noticing that as well. I guess asrock will take their place.

[squirrl]

Wait, i think i just bought one of these...

 

Edit: Nope, it was a Gigabyte G1 Gaming  Horrible name if i say so myself.

[BaconPersuasion]

On 8/6/2016 at 0:15 PM, zMeul said:

source: http://bbs.ngacn.cc/read.php?tid=9679249

 

rough translation:

 

the source claims that from all 200000 units sold globally by MSI, more than 8000 unit were sold in mainland China - out of those, 100% of them were RMAed 

holly ballz! 

 

and I though ASUS doesn't know how to design video cards .... MSI doesn't know how to do Quality Assurance

 

seems like the culprit for this whole situation are the Samsung's GDDR5 VRAM chips

but who knows, nVidia's GPU Boost 3.0 might have a hand in it too

who would of thought. the maker of the most reliable ssds makes the worse gpu ram chips..... FML

[LabRat]

1 hour ago, SliceT said:

 

I started noticing that as well. I guess asrock will take their place.

 every Asrock board I ever saw or owned, eventually the ethernet ports seem to get slow boots. slip a pci-e card in and it's instantaneous.

I see orange is the new red. nice case by the way.

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 minutes ago, BaconPersuasion said:

who would of thought. the maker of the most reliable ssds makes the worse gpu ram chips..... FML

You say that, but Sammy GDDR5 chips were in the Maxwell generation considered BY FAR the best on the market.

 

@Lays

 

Also I don't want to come off the hate train on MSI here, but I should remind everyone that the last industry wide statistics in MOBOs has all 4 major manufacturers below 3%.

 

Oh, and x99 motherboards have had a REALLY REALLY ROCKY launch... Talk to people in distribution centers, and it is not uncommon to here horror stories like the first batch of 30 ASUS x99-Deluxe Boards (Fry's Electronics near Lemont, IL) literally ALL BEING FAULTY, or all early MSI boards being particularly feisty with the IMC of the 5820k (Microcenter in Elk Grove, IL).

 

This was reflected in the RMA rates for x99 motherboards as posted provided by hardware.fr. The article is in French, ofc, but of note, take a look at those chipset RMA rates...

 

Spoiler

- 3,84% X99
- 2,63% Z87/Z97
- 1,84% H87/H97
- 1,70% B85
- 1,28% H81

- 4,58% 990
- 4,00% 970
- 1,64% A88X
- 1,28% A78
- 1,49% A58/A55

Top overall failed motherboards is an amusing one of each type phenomena:
 

Spoiler

- 10,91% ASRock H87M
- 8,03% ASUS Maximus VII FORMULA
- 7,14% Gigabyte GA-Z97N-Gaming 5
- 6,06% MSI X99S Gaming 7

And then finally, for your viewing pleasure, the x99 headlining mobos:

Spoiler

- 6,06% MSI X99S Gaming 7
- 3,08% ASUS X99-Deluxe
- 2,50% Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4
- 2,31% ASUS Rampage V Extreme
- 2,21% ASUS X99-A

 

Source: http://www.hardware.fr/articles/944-1/taux-retour-composants-13.html

 

EDIT: GPU's just for fun as well:

Spoiler

- Gainward 1,41% (contre 1,44%)
- ASUS 1,66% (contre 2,08%)
- Gigabyte 1,78% (contre 2,37%)
- MSI 2,16% (contre 2,48%)
- Sapphire 2,28% (contre 2,71%)
- Zotac 2,32% (contre 1,57%)
- Inno3D 3,69%

Inno3D fait son entrée dans le classement directement en dernière position, une place peu enviable même si le taux n'est pas catastrophique par rapport à ce que certains constructeurs ont parfois connu. Le nombre de modèles vendus à plus de 100 unités (et moins de 200 en italique) ayant obtenus des taux de retour supérieur à 5% est en baisse :

- 16,67% Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4G GDDR5 Tri-X OC New Edition
- 12,82% MSI Radeon R9 270X GAMING 2G
- 8,40% MSI Radeon R9 290 GAMING 4G
- 5,79% Inno3D iChill GTX 970 X4 Air Boss Ultra
- 5,71% Gigabyte GV-N970WF3OC-4GD 
- 5,36% ZOTAC GeForce GT 610 PCI
- 5,19% Gigabyte GV-N970IXOC-4GD
- 5,05% ZOTAC GeForce GTX 780 OC

Not that this invalidates the results, but given the time-frame of this report (Sept 2015), I'd be willing to bet the Sapphire 290 and MSI 290 were at least in part buoyed up in RMA rates by both the Maxwell Launch, and the 300-series launch.

[BaconPersuasion]

4 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

You say that, but Sammy GDDR5 chips were in the Maxwell generation considered BY FAR the best on the market.

 

@Lays

 

Also I don't want to come off the hate train on MSI here, but I should remind everyone that the last industry wide statistics in MOBOs has all 4 major manufacturers below 3%.

 

Oh, and x99 motherboards have had a REALLY REALLY ROCKY launch... Talk to people in distribution centers, and it is not uncommon to here horror stories like the first batch of 30 ASUS x99-Deluxe Boards (Fry's Electronics near Lemont, IL) literally ALL BEING FAULTY, or all early MSI boards being particularly feisty with the IMC of the 5820k (Microcenter in Elk Grove, IL).

 

This was reflected in the RMA rates for x99 motherboards as posted provided by hardware.fr. The article is in French, ofc, but of note, take a look at those chipset RMA rates...

 

  Hide contents

- 3,84% X99
- 2,63% Z87/Z97
- 1,84% H87/H97
- 1,70% B85
- 1,28% H81

- 4,58% 990
- 4,00% 970
- 1,64% A88X
- 1,28% A78
- 1,49% A58/A55

Top overall failed motherboards is an amusing one of each type phenomena:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

- 10,91% ASRock H87M
- 8,03% ASUS Maximus VII FORMULA
- 7,14% Gigabyte GA-Z97N-Gaming 5
- 6,06% MSI X99S Gaming 7

And then finally, for your viewing pleasure, the x99 headlining mobos:

  Reveal hidden contents

- 6,06% MSI X99S Gaming 7
- 3,08% ASUS X99-Deluxe
- 2,50% Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4
- 2,31% ASUS Rampage V Extreme
- 2,21% ASUS X99-A

 

Source: http://www.hardware.fr/articles/944-1/taux-retour-composants-13.html

 

EDIT: GPU's just for fun as well:

  Reveal hidden contents

- Gainward 1,41% (contre 1,44%)
- ASUS 1,66% (contre 2,08%)
- Gigabyte 1,78% (contre 2,37%)
- MSI 2,16% (contre 2,48%)
- Sapphire 2,28% (contre 2,71%)
- Zotac 2,32% (contre 1,57%)
- Inno3D 3,69%

Inno3D fait son entrée dans le classement directement en dernière position, une place peu enviable même si le taux n'est pas catastrophique par rapport à ce que certains constructeurs ont parfois connu. Le nombre de modèles vendus à plus de 100 unités (et moins de 200 en italique) ayant obtenus des taux de retour supérieur à 5% est en baisse :

- 16,67% Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4G GDDR5 Tri-X OC New Edition
- 12,82% MSI Radeon R9 270X GAMING 2G
- 8,40% MSI Radeon R9 290 GAMING 4G
- 5,79% Inno3D iChill GTX 970 X4 Air Boss Ultra
- 5,71% Gigabyte GV-N970WF3OC-4GD 
- 5,36% ZOTAC GeForce GT 610 PCI
- 5,19% Gigabyte GV-N970IXOC-4GD
- 5,05% ZOTAC GeForce GTX 780 OC

Not that this invalidates the results, but given the time-frame of this report (Sept 2015), I'd be willing to bet the Sapphire 290 and MSI 290 were at least in part buoyed up in RMA rates by both the Maxwell Launch, and the 300-series launch.

i get your point. the numbers from model to model are real... even AAA hardware makers are not immune to flukes such as this. not to sidestep msi's image in developments of latter years. i.e their motherboard bios support as well as the shotty power deliver and the list goes on but thats from decades ago.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Just now, BaconPersuasion said:

i get your point. the numbers from model to model are real... even AAA hardware makers are not immune to flukes such as this. not to sidestep msi's image in developments of latter years.

Certainly, and we still don't know what the hell is going on here. Obviously people haven't seen anywhere near as much of a biteback on 1070s sold outside of China, so I don't like the "WELL DUH MSI IS SHIT OBVIOUSLY" train of thought so many people are commenting here (because it just doesn't make sense.)

 

MSI's CS is awful, but at least they don't go literally out of their way to try to void their warranties like ASUS does, and getting a response is certainly easier than from Asrock (although Asrock isn't that bad once/if you can get contact started).

 

I don't have experience with Gigabyte's CS, but the gold standard of CS is set by Crucial followed swiftly by EVGA.

[BaconPersuasion]

17 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

 

 

Certainly, and we still don't know what the hell is going on here. Obviously people haven't seen anywhere near as much of a biteback on 1070s sold outside of China, so I don't like the "WELL DUH MSI IS SHIT OBVIOUSLY" train of thought so many people are commenting here (because it just doesn't make sense.)

 

MSI's CS is awful, but at least they don't go literally out of their way to try to void their warranties like ASUS does, and getting a response is certainly easier than from Asrock (although Asrock isn't that bad once/if you can get contact started).

 

I don't have experience with Gigabyte's CS, but the gold standard of CS is set by Crucial followed swiftly by EVGA.

screw warranty. i will pay 15% premium not to have to deal with any of that. like my piece of crap corsair keyboard i just bought. the thing just went ape shit. for 150 bucks it better work forever period. damn thing just took a shit. thank god i bought it locally i can just take it back to the store.

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

Just now, BaconPersuasion said:

screw warranty. i will pay 15% premium not to have to deal with any of that. like my piece of crap corsair keyboard i just bought. the thing just went ape shit. for 150 bucks it better work forever period. damn thing just took a shit. thank god i bought it locally i can just take it back to the store.

 

I'm cheap. And if you work with enough stuff you will always have something fail on you.

[BaconPersuasion]

i look at it in terms of what my time is worth. if i have to spend even an hour to rma a board that just added 40 dollars onto the price tag.

 

[GDRRiley]

On 8/7/2016 at 2:55 AM, manikyath said:

last time i had issues with MSI was this era:

 

although i must admit that there's a part of me secretly hoping that their 900 series cards will all die spectacularly so all the people who have claimed MSI superiority over my 970 strix now get a serious dose of karma

lol I have a strix also and everyone was saying to get some other brand and I stuck with it

[Curufinwe_wins]

On 8/9/2016 at 6:59 PM, BaconPersuasion said:

i look at it in terms of what my time is worth. if i have to spend even an hour to rma a board that just added 40 dollars onto the price tag.

 

Sure, but if one brand has a 2.2% rma rate and the other has a 2.68% rma rate then paying 30 dollars more off the bat has a 99.52% chance of costing you a net of 30 dollars and only a .48% chance of saving you 10 dollars. 

 

Pretty bad investment.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

On 8/6/2016 at 3:19 PM, Bhav said:

Their motherboards are currently failing as well, loads of people on their forums suddenly getting error codes with no post after months of use, for me its happened on both my original, and replacement board.

 

I've been trying to chase up a clear answer from MSI support why this issue is happening on so many of their mobos, but so far no answer.

 

Oh boy. I wanted to switch from ASUS to Msi for my next build

[Qwerty2323]

MSI 900s are awesome! 

Unfortunatelty shit happens and as for their motherboards it`s been years with people having issue with them lasting but there are lot of MSI fans here who mix up gpus and motherboard departments...

[Questargon]

NVidia will update their VBIOS to make overclocking on cards with a GTX 1070 and memory from Micron more stable.

 

Sources:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/963768/geforce-drivers/gtx-1070-memory-vrm-driver-or-bios-bug-in-micron-memory-1070-cards-/post/4986835/#4986835

https://www.computerbase.de/2016-09/geforce-gtx-1070-speicher-micron-oc-vbios/ (sorry, german only)

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 hour ago, Questargon said:

NVidia will update their VBIOS to make overclocking on cards with a GTX 1070 and memory from Micron more stable.

 

Sources:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/963768/geforce-drivers/gtx-1070-memory-vrm-driver-or-bios-bug-in-micron-memory-1070-cards-/post/4986835/#4986835

https://www.computerbase.de/2016-09/geforce-gtx-1070-speicher-micron-oc-vbios/ (sorry, german only)

That isn't related...The 1070 from MSI is using Samsung Modules IRC, and even still this issue clearly never left China so it shouldn't even be worried about.

 

But cool I guess that the vbios is being improved.

[Questargon]

19 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

That isn't related...The 1070 from MSI is using Samsung Modules IRC, and even still this issue clearly never left China so it shouldn't even be worried about.

 

But cool I guess that the vbios is being improved.

're you sure? I don't have a MSI 1070, but the net claims, that at least some of the MSI 1070 have Micron chips. See here for instance:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4wh8jc/msi_officially_announces_gtx_1070_quality/?st=itq3rqgp&sh=33596961

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, Questargon said:

're you sure? I don't have a MSI 1070, but the net claims, that at least some of the MSI 1070 have Micron chips. See here for instance:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4wh8jc/msi_officially_announces_gtx_1070_quality/?st=itq3rqgp&sh=33596961

Could have explained the China difference if primarily the Chinese market ones used Micron while the rest mostly got Sammy (similar to the whole S7 dual source.)

[Questargon]

Found another discussion thread for that topic:

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/msi-gaming-x-1070-vbios-86-04-26-3e-micron-ram.224602/

[manikyath]

11 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Could have explained the China difference if primarily the Chinese market ones used Micron while the rest mostly got Sammy (similar to the whole S7 dual source.)

if i recall, that is actually exactly what happened.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Just now, manikyath said:

if i recall, that is actually exactly what happened.

I haven't seen the details/confirmation, but it seems probable now that the evidence is outlayed.

[Trik'Stari]

Vram problems for Nvidia again?

 

......... Still waitin on ma $30 bucks. That's like a weeks worth of beer for me.

[Questargon]

EVGA, Gainward & Palit have BIOS-Upgrades that address this problem. KFA2 and Asus are working on it.

 

See here: (Sorry, German) Computerbase - Erste BIOS-Updates gegen Problem mit Micron-Speicher

 

Links: Gainward, EVGA, Palit