Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[Fendrick]

On 8/6/2016 at 9:26 AM, KenjiD5 said:

***PLEASE READ ENTIRE OP BEFORE POSTING***

 

Edited by: @MEC-777

 

The issues being discussed in this thread are a continuation of multiple threads come and gone over the last year or so. Please read this post CAREFULLY in it's entirety BEFORE replying, to avoid re-hashing the same thing over and over. 

 

Description of the Problems/Issues:

A significant number of PC gamers have reported experiencing some or all of the following graphical issues after changing nothing with their system. Everything looked "fine" one day and "terrible" the next. The difference or change was/is drastic and disruptive enough to notice beyond what is normally accepted as "typical graphical anomalies" observed in various games. 

 

-Most or all forms of AA filtering broken or non-effective.  

-Increased texture, shadow pop-in, Z-fighting.

-Shadows appear more jagged.

-Increased "flickering" on high-detailed objects (due to poor/broken AA filtering) - "dancing white dots" during movement.

-General decrease in LOD in all games (new and old).

 

PLEASE NOTE: These issue go beyond typical and commonly known graphical issues with certain games. Example: GTA5 - LOD box definition, object pop-in, Minecraft - anisotropic filtering bug etc. The specific issues in question also go beyond the results of low detail settings and or low PPI displays and any combination there of. The issue is: specific aspects of how the image is rendered has changed from a higher to [much] lower quality, without having changed anything (to the user's knowledge), seemingly "overnight". 

 

ALSO NOTE: These issues have been observed on Intel and AMD (FM2+ and AM3+ or older)-based systems, running both Nvidia and AMD GPUs. It has also been primarily observed on systems running Windows. 

 

Here is an example of the difference. Both videos are running the same game on the same display with the same resolution and graphics settings. @BuckGup first noticed the excessive jaggies in the menu of this game one day, and that was the first tip-off that something had changed (went wrong), even though he did not change anything prior to this happening. This also serves to demonstrate that as far as we know, the problem is fixed after switching to the AMD Ryzen platform. <--- NOTE: some members have now reported that switching to a Ryzen-based system DID NOT fix the issue. Thus, we can only state that this is an inconclusive solution. 

 

After the problem occurred:

 

 

Before the problem occurred - the way the game SHOULD look:

 

 

Solution that have been attempted but did not fix the issue:

-Swapping out every component in the PC (one at a time and all together).

-Reformat and clean OS install.

-Switching from AMD to Nvidia and reverse. 

-Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10.

-Running DDU with clean driver installation.

 

In *some* instances, swapping out components from one system (with the problem) to another system (without the problem), the issue was gone.  ***Details on this to be updated shortly***

 

Solutions we know have ZERO effect on the issue or are unrelated:

-"Dirty power" or power-related. By the very nature of how a GPU functions and given the multiple "power-cleaning and conditioning" stages before it reaches the PC and GPU (PSU, VRMs etc), it's simply not possible for this issue to be caused by "dirty" or "infected" power source. So please do not suggest it. 

-Running games at lower settings and/or on lower PPI (lower pixel density) displays. We all know games look worse in those conditions. That is NOT what this issue is about. Please see the notes already stated above to reiterate. The issue is about an instant decrease in graphical fidelity without having changed anything (settings/software or hardware) with the system.

-Virus or software "infection" of some kind. If this were the case, a simple wipe or swapping out of the storage drive(s) and clean OS install would fix the issue - but that has not been the case. So it seems; once the issue is there, it is extremely difficult to fix, aside from taking drastic measures. 

 

Possible solutions that have yet to be confirmed:

-In *some* cases, building an entirely new system fixed the issue. In *some* cases, this fixed the issue, but only temporarily. 

-One member  Now two(2) members here on the forums upgraded to AMD's new Ryzen platform and observed nearly all these issues were resolved. 2 members involved in this thread who have both experienced these issues are in the process of testing with a Ryzen based system to see if this holds merit. Further testing in progress... 

Update: Some members have reported that Ryzen systems are still susceptible to these issues. So the verdict on Ryzen systems being a possible solution is inconclusive at this point (July 2019). 

 

PLEASE: Do not suggest solutions that have already been attempted or that we know are unrelated, unless you have something new to bring forward that we might have overlooked. 

 

If you have any new information or corrections to the above information, please send me a PM and I will update. If you don't believe this issue is real or exists, and you have nothing to contribute, then please refrain from posting.

 

My two cents on this whole situation: At first I was very skeptical. I said "this is just low PPI, low settings, typical game issues with AA etc...". In some specific cases, it was. But there were enough people complaining about this and describing what happened in the same way (there are many more on other threads on other forums), that it made me take notice. It's not about the "graphics" but the "sudden change in graphics" - regrettably and honestly, it took me a while to realize that is what they were really talking about and trying to fix. I personally have not experienced these issues, but I am genuinely curious to see if a solution can be found for those who are stuck with this.  

 

Thanks for reading.  

 

The original OP for reference:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hello. we have a topic before like this and we are talking about the problems (already written in the title) and we met some guys who is just pure nonsense and keep talking to us like we are dumbs and i am the reason why the topic is closed.. now im so sorry and now i wont swear anymore but please let start all over again @ElijahDar @SpeedUp10 @Karalum  @SamStrecker and many other more and for the new guys who just visited this topic recently.. this is the problem we are talking about 

 

 

luckily we have solutions that might work so come and join us if you have these problems..we are going to help you

 

 

In fact I do believe the CSGO thing is due to an update, notice it is the same person recording but the game menu is not the same? Dust 2 is removed, the game versions are not the same.

 

Debunked.

 

I am sticking to my reasoning of people just being ignorant to how things work and jumping to conclusions too quickly.

 

Please learn that being ignorant is absolutely ok as long as you learn from it, we all are ignorant on some things, learning is the spice of life.

[grindhouse]

dude.. how are we being ignorant IF SAME games looks way worse than they used to look ?

we are not complaining as for how NEW games looks nowdays, we are complaining that SAME GAMES used to look PERFECT and now they are unplayable

 

[DBFTW]

None of us would complain of the shimmering on the wooden bridge around 16:55 in the Hogwarts Legacy video. Render the same area in 480p without TAA and it will be closer to what we see in different kinds of games. Even though we run games with AA turned on through a game's menu or forcing it through the control panel (though the latter is tricky and often doesn't work or makes things worse). It's as if there is not only no multisampling, but mipmapping is off, distant polygons don't use textures that are one or a few orders of 2 times smaller on each side, so every time the camera moves a very differently colored texel is picked from the effectively overly hi-res texture, creating an ugly jitter in the middle of polygons, not just edges.

 

The issue totally has to do with contrast, yes. Anything that softens the image helps fight the ugliness. Technically lower gamma makes the problem less noticeable, but that's not an actual solution for many reasons. Come to think of it, a solution may be coming up with a post-processing method that softens the image without distorting it too much. I barely play games due to unrelated reasons, so those who have more experience with such software may look in that direction?

 

Many of use have obsessed with the issue, and have started nitpicking visual artifacts which were there even before the issue. Some time ago I looked at old San Andreas screenshots (well, camera shots from within the game) from a run through the game I had a decade ago, 4 years before the issue appeared for me. There are patterns, but they are not as bad as they very suddenly became one day. I'm a huge sceptic and like to debunk and deconstruct everything, but psychological phenomena aren't the explanation of this issue, just something that slightly exacerbates it.

 

Seriously, can someone who games on a laptop take a video playing a game somewhere away from their home where everything works fine, and then one at home so we can have a good demonstration of what's going on?

[Fendrick]

Hmmm buy Hogwarts Legacy and see if it holds up?

[TImo volk]

Hello everyone, let me share a new discovery in my life. I don’t know if you have screen windows in your house. If you look through the screen windows in the sun and move your body slowly, you will find There is a slight flickering on the small edges of any object, and Large objects in the distance do not exhibit this phenomenon, just like we experience in games or even on the display screen of any electronic device. I infer that since there is no problem with other devices such as graphics cards, there should be a layer of tiny transparent grids on the display screen that we cannot see with the naked eye. It is this grid that affects the visual output on electronic devices.

[Yuan2739106990qq]

5 hours ago, TImo volk said:

大家好，让我分享一个我生活中的新发现。不知道你家有没有纱窗。如果你在阳光下透过纱窗看，慢慢移动身体，你会发现任何物体的小边缘都有轻微的闪烁，而远处的大物体则不会出现这种现象，就像我们在游戏中体验到的那样甚至在任何电子设备的显示屏上。我推断既然显卡等其他设备没有问题，显示屏上应该有一层我们肉眼看不到的微小透明网格。正是这个网格影响了电子设备的视觉输出。

Yes, my mobile phone didn't have this kind of grid before, but after this happened, it was obvious that there was a grid on the screen of my mobile phone in the sun, but why did this happen when recording?

[grindhouse]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:28 AM, DBFTW said:

Seriously, can someone who games on a laptop take a video playing a game somewhere away from their home where everything works fine, and then one at home so we can have a good demonstration of what's going on?

I did that. Even 50 kilometers away from my place issue was still there.

I didn't have that problem on my main rig SINCE I manually installed the latest nVidia GPU drivers.. everything went shit since then.

Then I went on my laptop where everything was still perfect just to make 'a test'.. MANUALLY installed the latest nVidia GPU game drivers there as well..

SHIT WENT UNPLAYABLE, right after I DID driver update.

Now, no matter where I go with my LAPTOP the issue is there. With me. ITS NOT MY HOUSE. ITS NOT MY SURROUNDING. IT IS nVidia or Microsoft. 

Maybe BOTH of them and the way drivers interfere with each other.

I live at my place since 3 years now. If it was 'the place' I would got those way earlier, rather then RIGHT AFTER manually updating my GPU drivers, and right after I did it on my gaming laptop as well..

So IT IS not your house, your 'air' or your neighbours.. Lets start addressing this problem to the REAL sources, which are the software companies IMO.....

I also DID change all my 'visual effecting' parts in my PC.

NEW 240HZ display.

NEW 1000W powersupply.

NEW 3080TI.

NEW highend power and connectivity cables

[wearealldoomed]

Does anyone know a discord for this specific topic and issue?

 

If one doesn’t exist let’s create one and talk there and share ideas as the only thing common with the numerous threads I've found about this problem from 10 years ago till now is that they all finish in a dead end abruptly with no solution or more commenters.

Let’s get all people we know with the issue in the discord and share and pool all resources in one centralized place instead of all the threads on all different platforms with 0 actual brainstorming or solutions.

 

I can’t believe so many people have this issue for so long and yet no solution is available.

 

And for all the doubters/deniers/fake experts if you want proof i will send you all the proof you want that this is in fact a real problem until recently i played the same games i do now with 0 issue this is 100% a real problem and not something you can “debunk”.

[retro_77]

https://discord.com/channels/687968109856030761/687968109856030764

[Fendrick]

20 hours ago, wearealldoomed said:

Does anyone know a discord for this specific topic and issue?

 

If one doesn’t exist let’s create one and talk there and share ideas as the only thing common with the numerous threads I've found about this problem from 10 years ago till now is that they all finish in a dead end abruptly with no solution or more commenters.

Let’s get all people we know with the issue in the discord and share and pool all resources in one centralized place instead of all the threads on all different platforms with 0 actual brainstorming or solutions.

 

I can’t believe so many people have this issue for so long and yet no solution is available.

 

And for all the doubters/deniers/fake experts if you want proof i will send you all the proof you want that this is in fact a real problem until recently i played the same games i do now with 0 issue this is 100% a real problem and not something you can “debunk”.

Well if you have stuff we can't debunk then why hide somewhere else? Proof was not what you want, you just want to be right and find a solution, thinking your reasoning is sound, there is no solution, everyone has aliasing and some bad graphics depending on the game lol.

[wearealldoomed]

On 3/3/2023 at 12:52 AM, Fendrick said:

Well if you have stuff we can't debunk then why hide somewhere else? Proof was not what you want, you just want to be right and find a solution, thinking your reasoning is sound, there is no solution, everyone has aliasing and some bad graphics depending on the game lol.

You are 100% wrong i am a recent casualty to this problem unlike most here and i very much remember how my games looked 1 month ago...the same ones i play now!

Also it seems i have a severe case of this especially with low LOD and draw distance i can send you many vids in all games where this is present and i know for a fact it wasn't like that until very recently. You are the one in the wrong, also just 2 days a go i was at a friends house with a worse rig and played Hogwarts on his pc with 0 pop ins like the ones i experience on my pc.

We are not crazy it is simply some really intertwined problem and i really don't even think its electricity or what some other commenters are suggesting. Instead of trying to convince us it's normal ,when we know for a fact it's not, help us or just simply stay out of it. You can't seriosuly think i dont know how my games looked 1 month ago? It's a MASSIVE difference!

[grindhouse]

I agree with you wearealldoomed,

but how are we going to argue with the fact that last week this shit went on my TV and iPhone as well............ no more Microsoft and nVidia there, tho

what the f is going on

[riperviwe]

no matter how much we all talk about this, we seriously can't find a solution. maybe there is no problem. can anyone please provide some gameplay footage before this thing happened?

[Yuan2739106990qq]

21 hours ago, riperviwe said:

no matter how much we all talk about this, we seriously can't find a solution. maybe there is no problem. can anyone please provide some gameplay footage before this thing happened?

https://b23.tv/xWLcziA?share_medium=android&share_source=qq&bbid=XUED3B3E1F1C2E29AD25CF5E0323280A86C4C&ts=1678369083762

Please tell me if you can't read it.

[riperviwe]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:40 PM, Yuan2739106990qq said:

https://b23.tv/xWLcziA?share_medium=android&share_source=qq&bbid=XUED3B3E1F1C2E29AD25CF5E0323280A86C4C&ts=1678369083762

Please tell me if you can't read it.

What is that site exactly?

[Yuan2739106990qq]

On 2023/3/11 at AM7点28分, riperviwe said:

那个网站到底是什么？

I recorded the shared video myself.

[nodropjagged]

Well, I'll give my thoughts again, I'm surprised that this difficult problem still has no solution, it could be a result of modern hardware's power-interference-bad electrical vs NVIDIA-AMD chasing profit, even in general ECC memory and GPUs are still rare in modern PCs, and with the increased intensity of electromagnetic interference in modern PCs, GPUs or MOBOs may not be able to handle those corrupted signals, but since this problem appears on TV shows and mobile phones, it may put the problem Leading to deeper places, such as chip design, if the hardware lacks the ability of ECC error correction data, will people with professional workstations encounter this problem? I noticed that in the speech of BuckGup on page 162, he used an rtx8000 get rid of jagged
Also I'm amazed at how people are used to Pop in, Low LOD, Shimmering, it's not any "brain glitch" or other focus stuff, you can read Magix's talk on pages 46-47-78, he uses vivid The words describe this perfectly, I think NVIDIA and AMD 100% know this problem and understand our situation, the irony is that they will only use this problem to promote influence and so-called "new technologies" that people may have to use in the future "DLSS"
"TAA" "FSR" etc a bunch of smoke bombs to blur our game...
PS: please excuse my english

[VincentArogya]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:36 PM, AudAmerica said:

Well, I'll give my thoughts again, I'm surprised that this difficult problem still has no solution, it could be a result of modern hardware's power-interference-bad electrical vs NVIDIA-AMD chasing profit, even in general ECC memory and GPUs are still rare in modern PCs, and with the increased intensity of electromagnetic interference in modern PCs, GPUs or MOBOs may not be able to handle those corrupted signals, but since this problem appears on TV shows and mobile phones, it may put the problem Leading to deeper places, such as chip design, if the hardware lacks the ability of ECC error correction data, will people with professional workstations encounter this problem? I noticed that in the speech of BuckGup on page 162, he used an rtx8000 get rid of jagged
Also I'm amazed at how people are used to Pop in, Low LOD, Shimmering, it's not any "brain glitch" or other focus stuff, you can read Magix's talk on pages 46-47-78, he uses vivid The words describe this perfectly, I think NVIDIA and AMD 100% know this problem and understand our situation, the irony is that they will only use this problem to promote influence and so-called "new technologies" that people may have to use in the future "DLSS"
"TAA" "FSR" etc a bunch of smoke bombs to blur our game...
PS: please excuse my english

It still boggles my mind that despite changing my entire PC, except for the hard drive, the issue seems to persist. I have changed three GPUs as well. I am not entirely sure what could be an issue that's causing this. But I know that it started after a power failure. My PC restarted and lo and behold jaggies.

[nodropjagged]

1 hour ago, VincentArogya said:

It still boggles my mind that despite changing my entire PC, except for the hard drive, the issue seems to persist. I have changed three GPUs as well. I am not entirely sure what could be an issue that's causing this. But I know that it started after a power failure. My PC restarted and lo and behold jaggies.

full agree, the question is still vague, have you experienced unusual electrical conditions in your home after a power outage?

[grindhouse]

Since my phone has it as well, and if it appears after some power faliure as Vince said, was my phone in the charger at that time or this shit somehow remembers that there was a faliure and corrupts everything thats plugged after and during the 'hit' :?

Laptop isn't plugged all the time as well and it has them god damn jaggies as well.

 

[nodropjagged]

6 hours ago, grindhouse said:

Since my phone has it as well, and if it appears after some power faliure as Vince said, was my phone in the charger at that time or this shit somehow remembers that there was a faliure and corrupts everything thats plugged after and during the 'hit' :?

Laptop isn't plugged all the time as well and it has them god damn jaggies as well.

 

The same problem happened to me, sounds like something is changing the electromagnetic signal, but to verify this, we need a spectrum analyzer and related experts to show the problem, unfortunately, this is expensive and rare

[VincentArogya]

On 3/19/2023 at 6:15 PM, AudAmerica said:

full agree, the question is still vague, have you experienced unusual electrical conditions in your home after a power outage?

Not really. I do have a power inverter and a UPS. So, it's not dirty power theory. Also, I change locations for six months, moving 20 kms away from my current location, and the issue did not resolve.

[VincentArogya]

On 3/20/2023 at 1:39 AM, grindhouse said:

Since my phone has it as well, and if it appears after some power faliure as Vince said, was my phone in the charger at that time or this shit somehow remembers that there was a faliure and corrupts everything thats plugged after and during the 'hit' :?

Laptop isn't plugged all the time as well and it has them god damn jaggies as well.

 

My earlier phone seemed to have this issue but my current phone doesn't. I once brought a friend's PS4 and there was no aliasing with it. 

[grindhouse]

On 3/24/2023 at 3:24 AM, VincentArogya said:

moving 20 kms away from my current location, and the issue did not resolve.

with the same 'damaged' equipment :? cause if so - thats tottaly normal. our electronics are already ill. I am currently investing in WHOLE new system, which will be placed in my old place, where for 10 years I had zero issues.. new mouse, new display and ALL new, even new case. Imma update you all after

 

[nodropjagged]

Guys, has anyone measured the neutral ground voltage of a building?