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Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

KenjiD5
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WkdPaul
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Hello all, 

 

I am glad I found this thread I've been losing my mind thinking I'm the only one. My issues started around 5 months ago when forza horizon 5 came out. I noticed terrible pop in, low lod and jagged shadows. I just attributed this to the game being poorly optimised/buggy. I also bought far cry 6 and thought it looked sub par (ultra settings 1440p). I played these 2 games exclusively since they were new and didn't think anything of it. However these past few months I've gone back and played fallout new vegas and the pop in and low lod is awful (much worse than I remembered). The lod is also bad in ghost recon breakpoint which used to look incredible. 

 

INTERESTINGLY, I have gone through the pictures I had taken from forza horizon 4 over the past few years. I used to think this game looked incredible, however comparing these to forza horizon 5, they look almost identical (I'll attach them). 

 

Like other people I noticed this change overnight almost and nothing in my setup has changed. I take my PC to and from University so 'dirty power' isn't the culprit. problem persists on SSD and HDD (I thought I might've dislodged a connection during transit to and from University).

 

I will be building a new PC in a few months when I graduate and get a new house. Hopefully this remedies all issues however I am starting to think maybe we're just noticing things we didn't used to since people buying completely new PC's and still having the issue makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

My specs are:

i5-4690k

GTX 1070

16GB RAM

1440p 144Hz monitor

SSD & HDD

 

Anyway thank you for reading. Take a look at the pictures and tell me what you think. Hopefully we can all find a solution and enjoy gaming once again 😞

1719253419_ForzaHorizon410_02_202122_04_10.png

Forza Horizon 5 19_02_2022 20_56_56.png

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Hello everyone. 


When I flushed my Bios recently these things started happening to me. 
Excessive Texture pop-in 3 meters in front of me. Low Lod. Low Res Textures. Shadow pop-in right in front of me. Jagged shadows and strange flickering
Worst in open World Games but also in linear Games. 
First I changed my video card back to my old one, where these things weren't happening. But it didn't change anything.

 

The Solution for me: 

 

My Problem was the RAM. Bios flush reset the RAM Speed, Voltage and Timing. 

After configuring the RAM and Voltage back to where it was before, these Problems were gone. (3200Mhz and 1.35Volt)

Now I have only very mild pop-in in the Distance which is normal for Open World games and no Low LOD. 
And its a smooth transition form Low Res Textures in the Distance to HD Textures near me and no pop-in 3 meters in front of me.

 

 

So maybe something messed with your RAM, it's not set up correctly anymore or faulty etc. If you've build a new PC, than keep in mind that not every RAM is compatible with every mainboard. Manufactures mostly have Lists where you can look up compatibility and how much Mhz is possible to run the RAM with, on the specific board.

Also the CPU must be able to handle these RAM Speeds too.

 

If you think, this doesn't make any sense, it's fine. I can only tell you, what helped me.

Maybe it's just a  coincidence. But the problems persisted for a over a month until I discovered the RAM changes.

 

Nonetheless, I hope this helps somebody.

I wish you all the best of luck, in solving your problems.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Does this issue fixed? I've been suffering from this issue for a year or so. Now I'm afraid of getting a new gpu. Changing gpu can fix the issue?

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On 4/28/2022 at 2:23 AM, Harryson002 said:

此问题是否已修复？我已经患有这个问题一年左右了。现在我害怕得到一个新的GPU。更改 GPU 可以解决问题吗？

Brother, replacing GPU has no effect, even rtx3090

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  • 3 weeks later...
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On 4/27/2022 at 8:23 PM, Harryson002 said:

Does this issue fixed? I've been suffering from this issue for a year or so. Now I'm afraid of getting a new gpu. Changing gpu can fix the issue?

there isn't really an issue, its just placebo trust me

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I'm pretty sure lack of (proper) mipmapping causes the worst of the symptoms we experience. Texture shimmering and extreme visual noise make any game lose its immersiveness. It's almost like the difference between nearest neighbor filtering, which was the norm until the late 90s, and bi/trilinear filtering which actually made games easy to look at. This is the watershed between retro games that are too old and you have to stomach the video quality to enjoy the gameplay/memories, and retro games that are still enjoyable, if bleak visually.

 

MSAA doesn't help with that, really. SSAA is not feasible for all games, even when it deals with the problem technically. I recently experimented with a favorite of mine, The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay (2004). I found that the shimmering that used to bother me in this game some 10 years before this problem appeared for me 5 years ago, is the result of the normal maps - the texture layers used for the bumpiness and shininess of surfaces. Disable it and the game stops being a "moiré" nightmare. The flat textures aren't noisy themselves.

 

Some game engines have shimmering as an inherent flaw which cannot be adjusted by standard settings in the menu. Sometimes configuration files can't help either and it's up to external tools to force more sightly rendering.

 

I've experimented with LOD settings in a few games. Careful LOD optimization from the developers is something some games depend heavily on, and some depend much more on the standard values that DirectX, OpenGL and Vulkan decide automatically. I believe negative LOD bias - where the game renders stuff that's a little farther than the immediate surrounding as if it's right next to us - is not per se what's causing most of the issues, except maybe pop-up and maybe microstutter.

 

No mipmapping though? This makes things hideous. I think some of us have gotten used to the smoothness of forcing mipmapping through drivers, but then Nvidia and AMD made it so that one can't force such an option, or at least not reliably. Changing the GPU may be an explanation why things are fine for some initially - their old card might've been stuck in a weird limbo where neither the game/app, nor the drivers, nor external tools can set the mipmap and/or LOD settings properly (I'm still not sure to what degree they are correlated and interdependent). Perhaps an action on our part as users that we have as a habit can make the things worse by recreating the issue after an OS reinstall or buying new parts. Can anyone tell what settings they fiddle with? If enough people do the same thing or two, it may be the culprit. Nvidia disabled negative LOD bias years ago, maybe some people run a tool from their old HDD/SSD, which ends up apparently setting the option at the desired level, but actually it screws things up even more? Because in general many newer games don't get mipmapping, LOD, anisotropy and even antialiasing right, they may look ah-ok at really high resolutions, but not good at all in anything lower than, like, 4K. And antialiasing support is a hit-and-miss. Transparency antialiasing is a big offender and it's the main reason that even not-so noisy textured polygons look bad. Not only fences, foliage, grids, cables and glass look bad, any texture that's overlaid on top of another textured object looks bad, for example road markings, or text sings, logos and graffiti on buildings. Bullet holes may not look bad because of their nature - their texture is usually pretty detailed, plus they disappear and we mostly see them during intense gameplay. But skid marks, blood (sometimes) and other marks that we can pay more attention to can be really annoying to look at.

 

What looks like a flat texture usually isn't as it has a normal map texture associated with it, and even if bumps and specularity aren't very noticeable, they are there. There are pretty much no flat textures in modern games, this may be an explanation why some older games may actually not be very heavily affected by shimmering.

 

May people moving to a different place or changing the electrical setup in their home indeed not be imagining stuff? What about interference? I don't know too much about either of these things, but I think it may play a role. Some people have problems with 2D content too, it may seem like it doesn't have many similarities with "true 3D", but actually the two aren't completely separate from each other. Monitors themselves can affect the severity of the issue, I believe. If we were still in the CRT days the issue wouldn't be as apparent! And since some people say an electrical issue or a reboot at the wrong time started their issues, it led me to wonder if such an incident could affect not only the video card, but also the display they use. I thought for a while that the video card/computer could somehow corrupt the display, creating artifacts due to faulty transparency calculation. Thing is, pixel data is sent as RGB colors without alpha (transparency) data, I think. Could then software be using weird approaches to calculating transparency? Screenshots of games make it possible to inspect the image and there is definitely texture noise which wasn't there in the past. Again, MSAA blends the pixels around polygon edges well, but it's the rest of the polygon that's problematic.

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When I change the resolution to 2k, the problem is solved.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

 

 

I agree, my PS2 games look crap on my 4K display.

 

In all seriousness it just seems folks have fallen behind the curve in how graphics have changed using physical based rendering etc, there are some anomalies such as text rendering but that's usually a Windows clear type issue.

 

Physical based lighting incurs a penalty because light now lights up pixel edges causing aliasing to happen where traditional AA cannot get to due to a much more detailed image that is no longer made up of straight edges which is where MSAA is king.

 

You can push resolution as high as you want but it will still exist.

 

Most games on closer inspection have ugly rendering, most are built for the use of TAA etc which blurs the image, Resident Evil 2 and 3 remake are a prime example of this, poorly implemented SSR and pixelated hair on all models.

 

 

gEFIUdW7_o.jpg

 

qn0NHouk_o.jpg

 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/subtle-graphical-weirdness-in-pc-version-of-resident-evil-3-demo.176634/

Cash Dump: 5800X. 32GB Ram. x570 motherboard. RTX 3070. 1440P screen.

Parts list: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/RJhfPX

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I upgraded my GPU from a GTX1080 to an RTX8000 with no other changes and the issues have gone away completely. It looks how games used to on my GTX760 and GT9600. Instantly I noticed the difference. In games like overwatch all the jagged, pixelated, and texture popping on the main menu character is gone. I believe it has to be related to the drivers as the geforce drivers are drastically different than the enterprise LTS you get with Quadros. So either more attention to detail and a bug is fixed in the quadro drivers and not geforce or it's intentionally done, either a byproduct from another "feature" or sabotage to make you upgrade. But I doubt sabotage as it doesnt go away with new GPUs

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
7 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I upgraded my GPU from a GTX1080 to an RTX8000 with no other changes and the issues have gone away completely. It looks how games used to on my GTX760 and GT9600. Instantly I noticed the difference. In games like overwatch all the jagged, pixelated, and texture popping on the main menu character is gone. I believe it has to be related to the drivers as the geforce drivers are drastically different than the enterprise LTS you get with Quadros. So either more attention to detail and a bug is fixed in the quadro drivers and not geforce or it's intentionally done, either a byproduct from another "feature" or sabotage to make you upgrade. But I doubt sabotage as it doesnt go away with new GPUs

If it only effects few people, it cannot be a driver problem or everyone would complain.

 

I do recall a time where I had a HD 5850 and in BFBC2 I could see through the whole map online until I ran closer to things and the objects would render in vs the GTX 460 I had that loaded everything in as it should.

 

That was a very long time ago.

Cash Dump: 5800X. 32GB Ram. x570 motherboard. RTX 3070. 1440P screen.

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6 hours ago, Unedited_Mind said:

If it only effects few people, it cannot be a driver problem or everyone would complain.

 

I do recall a time where I had a HD 5850 and in BFBC2 I could see through the whole map online until I ran closer to things and the objects would render in vs the GTX 460 I had that loaded everything in as it should.

 

That was a very long time ago.

There are two issues at hand which make it very hard to diagnose. It doesn't affect everyone and also people become aware of this "issue" when it's been there all along. Anti-aliasing, LOD bias, and Z fighting have been present artifacts since day 1 of 3D rendering. So there are users who are looking at this now when previously did not look at all. So a problem will arise as it's not agreeing with there perception of how it should look. Using online references is also bad as it's being compressed, put into containers, processed, and replication issues. 

 

I personally do believe there is an issue as I was super big into benchmarking, overclocking, and pixel peeping about a decade ago. This is when I first noticed the issue and thought it was a byproduct from memory overclocking. After the issue persisted from GPU to GPU and system wipe I figured it wasn't just me, and considering this is 162 pages I think I was right. But as soon as I put my RTX8000 in it looked eons better with identical settings in the same system. I thought it might be ECC on the VRAM so I turned it off and it still looked better. I went into the driver settings and manually changed the LOD bias, aliasing, and various other parameters trying to replicate the issue and I cannot. 

 

It's incredibly strange. Perhaps the idea of a worm in the firmware makes more sense if higher end cards aren't affected as they are a much lower market share and more complex operating structure compared to the consumer cards. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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In China we have a qq group chat where more than five hundred group members have come to the conclusion of moving and replacing with new equipment through countless tests

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在 12/8/2020 在 10：29 下午， adarsh_techTips 说：

我真的希望是这样，但我真的很怀疑，因为我已经搬了三栋房子，并在每栋房子里呆了大约3年，它似乎并没有消失，我也尝试过冲洗cmos，尽管我在冲洗掉之前的任何电后立即重新连接了我的电脑。


加入不和谐组 https://discord.gg/2ZcK6w7p....我想你提到的emi仪表已经做了，有一个不和谐小组专门致力于它，我不能在这里给你邀请链接，因为那里的家伙严格告诉我不要...加入我们的小组并发送消息yak4100或microsoftOffice2007并询问链接

 

我注意到的一件事是，它通常发生在屏幕关闭并再次打开时，或者当您关闭并打开游戏时，我的发生在我的ps3上，我的电视重置其设置并再次关闭自己并再次关闭，我无意中编程了我的电视，这是电视的功能之一， 这没什么错

 

无论如何加入我们的小组，或者如果你已经在里面问牦牛或微软2007的链接

你的新房子必须离旧房子远一点，至少得要有十几公里以上，因为这种电网污染的扩散范围很广

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12 hours ago, shlama said:

In China we have a qq group chat where more than five hundred group members have come to the conclusion of moving and replacing with new equipment through countless tests

Does changing the equipment fix the issue or are you telling me changing the equipment does not fix the issue?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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I think the pc has activated some option such as performance mode or something similar, since the games have more fps than they would normally have, and maybe that option tries to run the game as fast as possible which would cause them not to load the textures .
The other theory would be that for some reason our windows user account does not have the necessary privileges to make changes, which would cause the amd or nvidia control panels to have no effect when making changes, just like in the game itself, when changing it to ultra or low they look the same.

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On 6/14/2022 at 6:41 PM, BuckGup said:

I upgraded my GPU from a GTX1080 to an RTX8000 with no other changes and the issues have gone away completely. It looks how games used to on my GTX760 and GT9600. Instantly I noticed the difference. In games like overwatch all the jagged, pixelated, and texture popping on the main menu character is gone. I believe it has to be related to the drivers as the geforce drivers are drastically different than the enterprise LTS you get with Quadros. So either more attention to detail and a bug is fixed in the quadro drivers and not geforce or it's intentionally done, either a byproduct from another "feature" or sabotage to make you upgrade. But I doubt sabotage as it doesnt go away with new GPUs

Please provide a video from the old GPU with the problem and from the new one where it is fixed. Otherwise, it looks like a mockery and a joke.

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For all u guys that have these issues after mounting a new PC have you ever changed your ISP sinse the problems started and if so did you download, install windows, drivers and games with the new internet service provider ?

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I spent two months, 10 hours every day, researching and trying to fix this problem, I came to the conclusion, like many, that there is no solution, if you have already encountered it once, then your PC can no longer be fixed, some were helped by building a completely new PC without using old components, but even this did not help most. This is a hopeless situation with no solution

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hi ladies and gentlemen
I'm a PC gamer from China, happy to discuss this here

(Sorry, my English level, so I need to use translation software)
This issue seems to have come up frequently since 2018, but in our discussion community a few players have resolved this issue by changing the location of their device, they moved to another location
In one of our reports, someone moved his laptop, after waiting 5 days, the problem went away, one player replaced his monitor and PSU, moved to an old house, and the problem went away
In another report, a player purchased EMI filters, installed them on refrigerators and freezers in their home, and the problem improved slightly
Note that it may take some time for the device to recover from the interference
How did this problem arise?

In our report, reinstalling windows, changing PC components, changing drivers, and even "automatically" had this problem
Also, the problem is not only on PC, TV ps3 ps4 xbox switch mobile phones all have this problem
I think the real cause is some kind of electrical/magnetic interference, does anyone have the right instrument to measure this? I admit that electrical issues are less likely, but still can't rule out electrical interference
Is there more EMI interference around? Like communication towers?
Has anyone re-tested the color of the monitor?
In my opinion, if you need to show the problem, taking a picture of the display with your phone is the best way
I know that when the PC is running at full power, there will be quite a strong magnetic field interference (ut) inside. Will this interfere with the surrounding equipment? In some older PC Chassis, all around are protected by steel plates, and now the popular glass pc Chassis, will it cause more radiation fields? We need to know
We need a considerable degree of knowledge to solve this problem, which can be caused by multiple issues
keep hope and love you all

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Could this be the case when part of the GPU/monitor is disturbed, or not getting enough power?

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I'm going to repeat one thing again, this doesn't just happen on PC

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Uninstall visual c++ all versions after 2010
in the image the versions that remained
but I installed some games and newer versions were already installed, but the problem did not return
Forgive me if for any moment you felt confused with some explanation of my language and PT-BR

unknown.png

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4 hours ago, Felipe Ribeiro Brazil said:

Uninstall visual c++ all versions after 2010
in the image the versions that remained
but I installed some games and newer versions were already installed, but the problem did not return
Forgive me if for any moment you felt confused with some explanation of my language and PT-BR

unknown.png

It does not work for me:,(

But I'm glad it worked for you

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Those of you with a laptop, what happens if there's a power outage in your area? When Wi-Fi's, most other electronics, cell towers, appliances etc are off, and there's no electricity in the power lines, the symptoms may go away partially or completely. And keep phones and tablets away. Interference from the PSU may still be the main cause, but I suppose in many cases the culprit is elsewhere.

 

For some, issues can be resolved by buying a newer video card, and some have said that changing to an older one made the issues less severe or they even disappeared. Newer cards may be less susceptible to EMI, but newer does not necessarily mean better designed - older cards may serendipitously be less sensitive to EMI without designers and manufacturers even intending it. In different situations - depending on what's causing a particular case of EMI - an older GPU architecture may work without issues by chance. I wonder if it's possible that if two of your neighbors' Wi-Fi's (or a neighbor's and yours) are positioned in just the right way, they create a field that causes all this.

 

Maybe specific circumstances create the environment for this to happen, because otherwise it would be far more widespread as there are EMI sources everywhere, it's not like a newly installed baby monitor, air conditioner or kitchen appliance will cause such an issue on its own, they aren't a new thing. Hm, then maybe 5 GHz devices in particular cause it? Also satellite dishes can play a role - during an outage when the amplifier is inactive symptoms may improve? If anyone with a desktop has a UPS they may try too.

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