Tim Sweeney believes that Microsoft will harm Steam with Windows 10 updates

[Qub3d]

33 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

simple

 

The problem is that looks at software. Since Android is open source, a lot of manufacturers jumped on it and customized it to fit their needs. If you look at marketshare by manufacturer, the picture is different:

This is as of February 2016, btw. Apple still has a plurality, meaning that if they restrict stuff on their hardware, it makes it much more difficult to achieve success on other platforms.

[Humbug]

52 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

I think that people think that it is hard to make multi os compatible programs. The problem is DirectX, and its selfish support of only Windows. If everyone used OpenGL than everyone would get games for any OS.

I can't vouch for this myself but what devs say is that openGL has documentation issues, conformance issues, issues of unpredictable drivers, too many ways to do something and not clear which way it better, tools and debugging were not as good as directX etc. Obviously it's possible to create a high performance well optimized openGL game as good as directX as id software and few others have proved. But most devs complained about the above issues.

 

If you look at all the project goals of Vulkan their objectives were to fix all of the above mentioned issues. If devs were happy with openGL then Vulkan would not have happened. I am not an expert on graphics but the fact that so many IHVs and devs pushed for it and made it happen means clearly there was consensus in the industry amongst enough people to put in the effort and make something new.

[laminutederire]

57 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

By that logic Microsoft's in deep trouble: People will use PCs less and less and it would be all iOS and Android eventually.Only developers would ever use anything more than a Tablet or phone.

 

IOS and android can't replace a pc. You can't work on the same things and play the same things with those.

 

Anyway, on topic, unless they provide a portability of everything you own on steam, this would make a huuuge scandal. It would be like them saying a big fuck to the rest of the world, and the world would sue their asses off etc. Nobody will go on with windows 10 if it was going down that road. It's against their best interest. One thing they learned with windows 10 is that people have habits they won't change, and for now people won't see themselves using anything but steam to game...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Humbug said:

I can't vouch for this myself but what devs say is that openGL has documentation issues, conformance issues, issues of unpredictable drivers, too many ways to do something and not clear which way it better, tools and debugging were not as good as directX etc. Obviously it's possible to create a high performance well optimized openGL game as good as directX as id software and few others have proved. But most devs complained about the above issues.

 

If you look at all the project goals of Vulkan their objectives were to fix all of the above mentioned issues. If devs were happy with openGL then Vulkan would not have happened. I am not an expert on graphics but the fact that so many IHVs and devs pushed for it and made it happen means clearly there was consensus in the industry amongst enough people to put in the effort and make something new.

Vulkan would have happened, it is the completion of Valve's GLNext and is basically OpenGL 5.

GL is badly documented because it is a project made by a company that started off small. Microsoft is a huge company, and their documentation is so good because they have the money and time.

[suicidalfranco]

5 minutes ago, Qub3d said:

The problem is that looks at software. Since Android is open source, a lot of manufacturers jumped on it and customized it to fit their needs. If you look at marketshare by manufacturer, the picture is different:

This is as of February 2016, btw. Apple still has a plurality, meaning that if they restrict stuff on their hardware, it makes it much more difficult to achieve success on other platforms.

But it is still Android, they still all heavily rely on Google's Play Services, this is not like Linux where the only common point between each distro is just the kernel 

[laminutederire]

5 minutes ago, Qub3d said:

The problem is that looks at software. Since Android is open source, a lot of manufacturers jumped on it and customized it to fit their needs. If you look at marketshare by manufacturer, the picture is different:

This is as of February 2016, btw. Apple still has a plurality, meaning that if they restrict stuff on their hardware, it makes it much more difficult to achieve success on other platforms.

But they only have like 15% of new phones bought meaning they're on the wrong position to do things that could force out the last few people who still but their products. 

[Okjoek]

Why not just find another OS to use if that bad stuff were to happen? The only reason not to is if they were banned by some sort of draconian government takeover.

[Humbug]

7 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

Vulkan would have happened, it is the completion of Valve's GLNext and is basically OpenGL 5.

That doesn't contradict anything I said.

All the project goals of Vulkan (or openGL next) from the start came about because of the issues I mentioned.

That's why they decided not to make it openGL 5 and instead make something new starting from Mantle.

OpenGL will continue to evolve independantly, openGL 5 will come out as the next iteration and evolution of openGL. That will be separate from vulkan.

[Qub3d]

8 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

But they only have like 15% of new phones bought meaning they're on the wrong position to do things that could force out the last few people who still but their products. 

http://www.statista.com/statistics/216459/global-market-share-of-apple-iphone/

Apple, at its peak, added about 23% of new phones to market. While the drop in numbers may mean a change in the future, part of this decline is due to simple market saturation. The app store effects all iPhones, not just the new ones.

9 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

But it is still Android, they still all heavily rely on Google's Play Services, this is not like Linux where the only common point between each distro is just the kernel 

All this proves is that Google can also be anti-competitive. Its a duopoly right now. Are you telling me that if 3 out every ten of your friends lost access to, say, Facebook, you wouldn't consider switching to one everyone could use?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

But it is still Android, they still all heavily rely on Google's Play Services, this is not like Linux where the only common point between each distro is just the kernel 

Not actually, most modern distros use package managers like yum or apt. The operating systems are basically the same, linux software can be compiled for any other distro with out changes to the software like 90% of the time, and most linux distros use GNU software like gcc and gnome.

[Qub3d]

3 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

Not actually, most modern distros use package managers like yum or apt. The operating systems are basically the same, linux software can be compiled for any other distro with out changes to the software like 90% of the time, and most linux distros use GNU software like gcc and gnome.

Your point is minutiae and not related to this argument, though it is technically correct.

http://www.lurkmore.com/view/GNU/Linux_interjection

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Humbug said:

That doesn't contradict anything I said.

All the project goals of Vulkan (or openGL next) from the start came about because of the issues I mentioned.

That's why they decided not to make it openGL 5 and instead make something new starting from Mantle.

OpenGL will continue to evolve independantly, openGL 5 will come out as the next iteration and evolution of openGL. That will be separate from vulkan.

No, actually GLNext was supposed to replace OpenGL, and Vulkan is basically finishing GLNext, which was an unfinished project.

[Guest]

Just now, Qub3d said:

Your point is minutiae and not related to this argument, though it is technically correct.

http://www.lurkmore.com/view/GNU/Linux_interjection

It wasnt really based on the argument, more on your point that the only thing that all linux distros share is the terminal. They are basically the same os.

[Qub3d]

1 minute ago, spidsepttk said:

It wasnt really based on the argument, more on your point that the only thing that all linux distros share is the terminal. They are basically the same os.

That wasn't my point, that was @suicidalfranco's point

[Humbug]

6 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

No, actually GLNext was supposed to replace OpenGL, and Vulkan is basically finishing GLNext, which was an unfinished project.

GLNext development was announed in August 2014.

Below is what Khronos said

- OpenGL-Next is a ground-up design of a modern 3D+Compute API and will break compatibility with existing OpenGL implementations.

That right there is why it was renamed to Vulkan. That's why they decided not to call it openGL next or openGL 5.

 

Seperate from Vulkan openGL evolution will continue, openGL 5 will come out.

[Guest]

Just now, Humbug said:

OpenGL development next was announed in August 2014.

Below is what Khronos said

- OpenGL-Next is a ground-up design of a modern 3D+Compute API and will break compatibility with existing OpenGL implementations.

That's why it was renamed to Vulkan. That's why they decided not to call it openGL next or openGL 5 in the end.

 

That's why the actual openGL 5 evolution is coming out separately.

ah shit sorry, i dont know where i got that from, but i thought that Vulkan was GL5.

[LAwLz]

This is precisely why it is very important that UWP fails. It is a very dangerous tool which limits both developers and users.. Luckily for us, it seems like it is not getting any traction. If UWP doesn't get any traction then abandoning Win32 would be a suicide move for Microsoft.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that Microsoft would do this if UWP had been a huge success. For example if Windows 10 now had 80% marketshare, and all users were slowly switching over to using UWP.

UWP benefits Microsoft greatly. They get a ton of personal data. They get to serve the ads. They get a cut whenever something gets sold in the store, and so on. They want everyone to use UWP for the same reason Apple wants everyone to use the app store on iOS.

[Unhelpful]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Please don't comment on thing you never used, or even looked at a picture before.

Thank you.

Please don't make an asshat out of yourself by making assumptions of other users to defend the company that you have an unholy obsession with. You have some pretty extreme bias that stops you from being objective. Fanboys are almost as bad as haters.

 

Thank you.

[Humbug]

14 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

This is precisely why it is very important that UWP fails. It is a very dangerous tool which limits both developers and users.

What about the security benefits of UWP such as sandboxing, and the benefit of being able to write one app which runs on multiple device types?

 

[Kherm]

LOL

WOOHOOOOOO

[Misanthrope]

5 minutes ago, Humbug said:

What about the security benefits of UWP such as sandboxing, and the benefit of being able to write one app which runs on multiple device types?

 

Is there any particular reason why the benefits must be tied to a walled garden like Windows store? Other than they are?

 

Nope. Microsoft does good things, like DX12, and then routinely ruins them by crippling them with things you don't want, like Windows 10.

 

They did the same with Vista and DX10 back in the days btw so it's nothing new. In fact virtually all versions of DX have been exclusive to their new OS for no other reason than to encourage people to get to the new OS faster:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX

 

 

[GoodBytes]

12 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

Microsoft's #1 most combative apologist is here again to derail the topic with ad hominem and straw man argumentation, and you can't put him on ignore because he's a mod. Thumbs up, LTT

Defending Microsoft? No. I am informing you guys like Tim Sweeney, of Microsoft master plan, which I know everything about, much like him.

 

[That Norwegian Guy]

Just now, GoodBytes said:

Defending Microsoft? No. I am informing you guys, like Tim Sweeney, of Microsoft master plan, which I know everything about, much like him.

 

You are bombarding any thread with negative light on Microsoft in static to smokescreen discussions about it. Your post history is (my guesstimate) 35% acting Microsoft forum defense attorney, 35% Microsoft advertisement and 10% derailing/ smokescreening, it's like you have a batsignal for this stuff.

[Misanthrope]

Just now, AlexTheRose said:

What? Nvidia’s drivers perform great; they’re just proprietary.

 

AMD’s drivers are usable too, they just don’t perform as good.

They perform 10 to 15% worst than Windows drivers on Maxwell (and soon Pascal only probably) Try Kepler for example and you'll probably run into flatout crashes or unusable system on Ubuntu or Mint: they're that bad.

 

AMD's not any better really. I have no idea why would you call that "perform great".

[suicidalfranco]

39 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

Not actually, most modern distros use package managers like yum or apt. The operating systems are basically the same, linux software can be compiled for any other distro with out changes to the software like 90% of the time, and most linux distros use GNU software like gcc and gnome.

Yes but how many package managers are there? this many

Then you have to consider that each distro tend to have their own or proffered/favoured set repositories. Sure you can go straight to the source and compile it yourself but it's not really the most straight forward thing to do.  Also i know that the correct term is GNU/Linux, i'm just to lazy to type it every time so i just call it Linux

45 minutes ago, Qub3d said:

All this proves is that Google can also be anti-competitive. Its a duopoly right now. Are you telling me that if 3 out every ten of your friends lost access to, say, Facebook, you wouldn't consider switching to one everyone could use?

Considering that i was part of the three out ten that couldn't access an app (previous WP user), i did switch to a platform that could, but if it were the opposite, i would have not cared personally.