Tim Sweeney believes that Microsoft will harm Steam with Windows 10 updates

[manikyath]

Just now, spidsepttk said:

How come Linux works on ARM and x86? Or is there some kind of difference between the OS on the Pi and other linux operating systems?

because they recompiled linux for ARM, (which technically, apple did with OSX when making the iPhone)

 

this results in honestly very limited available software, and/or waiting ages for the honestly stupidly slow platform to compile software for you (here's a quote for you: "warning, compiling from source will take upwards of 24 hours and cannot be interrupted")

and then even still a lot of stuff that can be compiled, doesnt run very well. openJDK works decently once the application has loaded up, but is honestly a disaster. (i still wonder how the flip android made their java-based language work at all on arm) 

[Doobeedoo]

Well, they're improving UWA with features that were missing, crucial ones, that were added lately. They said they will continue to support it and improve it. And they need to if it's going to replace Win32 and also they need to improve it in a way that it doesn't feel it's lacking and closed. Listening to people will be crucial.

[manikyath]

Just now, AlexTheRose said:

Linux is a kernel, and is written with countless architectures in mind.

its not "written with blabla in mind" as much as it's just inherently a very adaptable platform.

 

if you told the windows engineers to recompile windows desktop for arm, and cut it down to be lightweight enough for the platform in a way that is not the stupidity that is windows RT, that's basicly doing the same thing.

 

the difference is that with linux, it's not linus torvalds that is given the task to compile for X86, X86_64, arm, sparc, PowerPC, and the vareous other platforms.

[Guest]

Just now, manikyath said:

because they recompiled linux for ARM, (which technically, apple did with OSX when making the iPhone)

 

this results in honestly very limited available software, and/or waiting ages for the honestly stupidly slow platform to compile software for you (here's a quote for you: "warning, compiling from source will take upwards of 24 hours and cannot be interrupted")

and then even still a lot of stuff that can be compiled, doesnt run very well. openJDK works decently once the application has loaded up, but is honestly a disaster. (i still wonder how the flip android made their java-based language work at all on arm) 

Well, you beat me, I thought that all devices running UNIX based systems used x86 architecture. This extends my point of why Microsoft sucks, Windows only works on x86.

[Monkey Dust]

I can't see MS comprising Win32 support. Most businesses use non-Microsoft software, and aren't going to happy paying for it to be converted to run on UWP. Hell most still run Win 7 and old versions of IE to avoid having to update the software. I doubt MS would risk their huge corporate market to try to extract more money out of a niche market, PC gamers.

 

That said I wouldn't be adverse to a move to Linux. And I think gamers could move, even if the non-PC gaming masses stick with Windows. But there is a problem getting a critical mass of gamers to get more AAA releases on Linux, and solid GPU driver support. It's a chicken and egg thing unfortunately.

[manikyath]

Just now, spidsepttk said:

Well, you beat me, I thought that all devices running UNIX based systems used x86 architecture. This extends my point of why Microsoft sucks, Windows only works on x86.

windows also works on itanium, because of all 1 itanium processors that were ever made

 

but the reason "windows desktop" isnt available for multiple architectures, is because it breaks it's biggest selling point: it is compatible with 90% of all software and hardware. which is where windows RT really took a hit right on the nose: it is the oposite of that. it runs barely any software, and is limited to very few devices.

 

which inherently, makes it a failed operating system.

[manikyath]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Dust said:

I can't see MS comprising Win32 support. Most businesses use non-Microsoft software, and aren't going to happy paying for it to be converted to run on UWP. Hell most still run Win 7 and old versions of IE to avoid having to update the software. I doubt MS would risk their huge corporate market to try to extract more money out of a niche market, PC gamers.

 

That said I wouldn't be adverse to a move to Linux. And I think gamers could move, even if the non-PC gaming masses stick with Windows. But there is a problem getting a critical mass of gamers to get more AAA releases on Linux, and solid GPU driver support. It's a chicken and egg thing unfortunately.

the thing is (and for the love of god i hope MS realises this) that if they would ever drop win32 on the desktop, 2 things will happen:

1: their desktop OS just turned into a tablet/phone OS

2: everyone and their dog needs to rewrite, so they either rewrite for a tablet/phone OS (fat chance) or they jump on the OSX or linux bandwagon which will most likely both be cheaper solutions for both developer and client in the long run.

 

EDIT: should add, cross-compat/rewriting software between OSX and linux is easier than it is between either and windows, so if either one of the two hits the majority of the desktop, the other one is along for the ride. in fact along with that russian windows ripoff, i think windows is the lone outsider in general.

[Guest]

Just now, manikyath said:

windows also works on itanium, because of all 1 itanium processors that were ever made

 

but the reason "windows desktop" isnt available for multiple architectures, is because it breaks it's biggest selling point: it is compatible with 90% of all software and hardware. which is where windows RT really took a hit right on the nose: it is the oposite of that. it runs barely any software, and is limited to very few devices.

 

which inherently, makes it a failed operating system.

That's the reason why I own Windows for my gaming computer, like half the games I own are only for Windows, and Windows's biggest selling point is also the reason why it sucks, it is based on software that is vulnerable to viruses, and simply outdated (MS DOS)

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, AlexTheRose said:

a product that isn’t lackluster at best and outright broken at worst.

you just described my feelings about the raspberry pi.

[manikyath]

3 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

That's the reason why I own Windows for my gaming computer, like half the games I own are only for Windows, and Windows's biggest selling point is also the reason why it sucks, it is based on software that is vulnerable to viruses, and simply outdated (MS DOS)

you're wrong there actually, ever since whatever came past windows 98, MS DOS has basicly been worked out entirely, which unfortunately also caused the windows terminal (CMD) to become a shadow of the functionality it once had, and makes linux's terminal so great. (windows XP 32-bit still had some sort of "DOS compatibiltiy mode" built in, but it was "broken at best" and has been phased out entirely starting with windows vista, with all traces removed starting win7 64 bit)

[Guest]

Just now, manikyath said:

you're wrong there actually, ever since whatever came past windows 98, MS DOS has basicly been worked out entirely, which unfortunately also caused the windows terminal (CMD) to become a shadow of the functionality it once had, and makes linux's terminal so great. (windows XP 32-bit still had some sort of "DOS compatibiltiy mode" built in, but it was "broken at best" and has been phased out entirely starting with windows vista, with all traces removed starting win7 64 bit)

I once met this guy that told me that CMD is shit and that i should use a different terminal for my Windows computer, I didn't do that because I don't use CMD on my windows machine enough to make a big deal about it.

 

I meant outdated in the way that Microsoft are clearly trying to make their operating system more like Mac OS and some Linux distros, but it will never be like that, because the only way Microsoft thinks it can turn Windows into Mac OS is by removing features.

 

On a slightly different topic, have you ever used Visual Studio. Its about 5GB for C++ and like 90% of that will never be used. Its all full of useless stuff like their pre-written code library and their forced project management (you are FORCED to make one of their visual studio projects) when all i ever used from it is the compiler and the syntax highlighting. Now I have Atom text editor and GCC on my other computer that runs Mac OS because I prefer the "hackintosh" to Windows.

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, spidsepttk said:

I once met this guy that told me that CMD is shit and that i should use a different terminal for my Windows computer, I didn't do that because I don't use CMD on my windows machine enough to make a big deal about it.

 

I meant outdated in the way that Microsoft are clearly trying to make their operating system more like Mac OS and some Linux distros, but it will never be like that, because the only way Microsoft thinks it can turn Windows into Mac OS is by removing features.

 

On a slightly different topic, have you ever used Visual Studio. Its about 5GB for C++ and like 90% of that will never be used. Its all full of useless stuff like their pre-written code library and their forced project management (you are FORCED to make one of their visual studio projects) when all i ever used from it is the compiler and the syntax highlighting. Now I have Atom text editor and GCC on my other computer that runs Mac OS because I prefer the "hackintosh" to Windows.

in school i had to use visual studio for writing C code, i dont need to explain you how much eclipse fanboii me cringed inside...

 

but honestly, the biggest issue windows faces, is also it's strength: backwards compatibility and familiarity.

 

you can most likely still run a game written for windows 95 on a modern windows machine, you can put a windows 10 box in front of grandma who was used to W98SE and she'll be off with it rather swiftly.

 

this also creates a very negative view towards dropping some of that backwards compatibility (remember the outrage around XP's EOL?) and changes made to the UI (windows 8's charms, which was honestly not the worst idea they had...)

[AlTech]

10 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

I once met this guy that told me that CMD is shit and that i should use a different terminal for my Windows computer, I didn't do that because I don't use CMD on my windows machine enough to make a big deal about it.

 

I meant outdated in the way that Microsoft are clearly trying to make their operating system more like Mac OS and some Linux distros, but it will never be like that, because the only way Microsoft thinks it can turn Windows into Mac OS is by removing features.

 

On a slightly different topic, have you ever used Visual Studio. Its about 5GB for C++ and like 90% of that will never be used. Its all full of useless stuff like their pre-written code library and their forced project management (you are FORCED to make one of their visual studio projects) when all i ever used from it is the compiler and the syntax highlighting. Now I have Atom text editor and GCC on my other computer that runs Mac OS because I prefer the "hackintosh" to Windows.

I have used Visual Studio 2015.

 

What you download is the files required which are part of the Win32 API, the .NET framework, MFC, ATL, and all the Windows Visual C++ templates they offer you as well as the Compiler, debugger and whatnot.

 

The reason why Atom is so small is because it uses the internet to determine whether or not your syntax is correct. Visual Studio has all the syntax downloaded so your PC can have no internet and still be able to debug a program.

[Guest]

Just now, manikyath said:

in school i had to use visual studio for writing C code, i dont need to explain you how much eclipse fanboii me cringed inside...

 

but honestly, the biggest issue windows faces, is also it's strength: backwards compatibility and familiarity.

 

you can most likely still run a game written for windows 95 on a modern windows machine, you can put a windows 10 box in front of grandma who was used to W98SE and she'll be off with it rather swiftly.

 

this also creates a very negative view towards dropping some of that backwards compatibility (remember the outrage around XP's EOL?) and changes made to the UI (windows 8's charms, which was honestly not the worst idea they had...)

Oh my god yes! I must agree with you there, eclipse is so much better, and its like 200mb. Back then i was using CodeBlocks for my c++ code, now i just use a text editor and g++, because i have absolute freedom for how i want to manage a coding project that way.

 

It seems that Windows is getting hated on more every time they change anything. The audience of Windows is now people that play video games, people that use it for work and people that develop software on it. The average person would use their computer for emails, social networks and internet browsing, which Mac OS does much better than Windows. I think that Microsoft should work more with the people that actually use their operating systems, and not try to lure all the apple users in with their new changes.

 

Overall I don't mind an OS that is more user friendly, I just don't like operating systems that remove features just for the chance that it would be more popular, which is why i prefer using Mac OS for content creation and programming.

[The Benjamins]

What do you guys think of power shell?

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, spidsepttk said:

The average person would use their computer for emails, social networks and internet browsing, which Mac OS does much better than Windows.

i'd rephrase that to this: "the average person... has no idea what an operating system even is, and just buys what looks nice"

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

What do you guys think of power shell?

i used to pick on lua for breaking with common conventions, then i discovered powershell, and bailed out of college.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I have used Visual Studio 2015.

 

What you download is the files required which are part of the Win32 API, the .NET framework, MFC, ATL, and all the Windows Visual C++ templates they offer you as well as the Compiler, debugger and whatnot.

 

The reason why Atom is so small is because it uses the internet to determine whether or not your syntax is correct. Visual Studio has all the syntax downloaded so your PC can have no internet and still be able to debug a program.

Atom is a text editor, Visual Studio is an IDE with way too many features. Eclipse is like Visual Studio without all of the bullshit.

 

*disconnects second pc from internet than starts atom just to prove*

Atom does not get syntax highlighting from the internet, it has it all downloaded, and it contains a good package manager that allows you to extend it. When i used Visual Studio, the only features I used were the compiler and the text editor.

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, spidsepttk said:

Atom is a text editor, Visual Studio is an IDE with way too many features. Eclipse is like Visual Studio without all of the bullshit.

 

*disconnects second pc from internet than starts atom just to prove*

Atom does not get syntax highlighting from the internet, it has it all downloaded, and it contains a good package manager that allows you to extend it. When i used Visual Studio, the only features I used were the compiler and the text editor.

last week i saw something that blew my mind.

 

in intelliJ you can select multiple places in code, and TYPE IN MULTIPLE PLACES AT ONCE.

i need this in my life...

[Guest]

Just now, manikyath said:

i'd rephrase that to this: "the average person... has no idea what an operating system even is, and just buys what looks nice"

haha, but really, buying Mac OS than running it on a pc is cheaper than buying Windows and running it on that computer.

 

Plus, I think that Mac OS is much more secure, and feels like it won't instantly break at any time. People only buy overpriced Windows operating systems because they work with the third party software that they like. I'm sick of games not working on my other computer and my laptop, can't everyone just use linux and be happy.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

last week i saw something that blew my mind.

 

in intelliJ you can select multiple places in code, and TYPE IN MULTIPLE PLACES AT ONCE.

i need this in my life...

Haha, you can in Atom too, and it actually saves a lot of time. I think that the text editor that comes with Fedora has multi line editing, don't remember. I know that Sublime Text 3 has it too. These are the features that Visual is missing!

[manikyath]

Just now, spidsepttk said:

haha, but really, buying Mac OS than running it on a pc is cheaper than buying Windows and running it on that computer.

 

Plus, I think that Mac OS is much more secure, and feels like it won't instantly break at any time. People only buy overpriced Windows operating systems because they work with the third party software that they like. I'm sick of games not working on my other computer and my laptop, can't everyone just use linux and be happy.

or because it looks nice on the shelf.

 

i ran out of cares to try and explain this to the linux people on this forum.

average joe gives no two shits about what an operating system even is as long as they dont need to think about it and it does what they need it to do.

result: they go to the store, tell the first person there "i need  computer for X, Y, and Z" the store guy points at the ones that'll do X, Y, and Z, and they pick the pinkest one off the shelf to become their new facebook machine until that one also faces the inevitable drop off the bed.

[Guest]

Just now, manikyath said:

or because it looks nice on the shelf.

 

i ran out of cares to try and explain this to the linux people on this forum.

average joe gives no two shits about what an operating system even is as long as they dont need to think about it and it does what they need it to do.

result: they go to the store, tell the first person there "i need  computer for X, Y, and Z" the store guy points at the ones that'll do X, Y, and Z, and they pick the pinkest one off the shelf to become their new facebook machine until that one also faces the inevitable drop off the bed.

plus, buying a mac as a "facebook machine" is way better, because they tend to last a lot longer with the "average joes". Windows tends to get clogged up with malware, so they just chuck the piece of shit away, and buy another computer.

 

I don't understand why 12 year old me hated Mac OS and thought Windows was amazing. Now that i see how easy it is to compile software written for Linux on OSX it has become my coding system. Plus osx looks nice.

 

The conclusion: I think windows sucks and Mac and Linux are good.

[manikyath]

Just now, spidsepttk said:

plus, buying a mac as a "facebook machine" is way better, because they tend to last a lot longer with the "average joes". Windows tends to get clogged up with malware, so they just chuck the piece of shit away, and buy another computer.

 

I don't understand why 12 year old me hated Mac OS and thought Windows was amazing. Now that i see how easy it is to compile software written for Linux on OSX it has become my coding system. Plus osx looks nice.

 

The conclusion: I think windows sucks and Mac and Linux are good.

majority of those "illiterates" end up buying a windows machine because they're cheaper and pinker tho

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

majority of those "illiterates" end up buying a windows machine because they're cheaper and pinker tho

Actually they end up buying tablets more and more. I maintain that PCs as a regular consumer appliance will tend to disappear leaving a market for just enthusiasts and developers.