Microsoft officially acknowledges request for Pokemon Go on Windows 10

[AlTech]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

There is a difference though.

OS X users aren't crying about how they get "discriminated" against when a Windows program doesn't get released on OS X. Windows users do when something comes out for Android but not Windows.

The problem here is hypocrisy. They expect everyone to bow down and hand Microsoft stuff on a silver platter, but Microsoft should not have to do anything in return.

Part of that comes from them knowing what they signed up for and not caring if a program doesn't work on OS X.

Quote

 

I don't think it is unreasonable considering the push for Continuum (which is, take a phone and plug it into a big screen). Running Win32 programs on a 5" screen would be bad. Running Win32 programs on a 24" screen, powered by a device that fits inside a 5" device would not be bad.

It would be very niche, but it would at least be some USP for Windows Phone.

What? You don't like UWP apps or you just happen to like asking for the impossible? I can't decide which because Win32 on a phone is not what Microsoft is making.

 

They want Win32 to be phased out and be used LESS and not MORE.

 

They want as many apps as possible to be both on PCs and Mobile devices.

[LAwLz]

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

Part of that comes from them knowing what they signed up for and not caring if a program doesn't work on OS X.

So exactly the same as with Windows phone, unless you were ignorant enough to buy it without knowing all the drawbacks of Windows Phone.

 

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

What? You don't like UWP apps or you just happen to like asking for the impossible? I can decide which because Win32 on a phone is not what Microsoft is making.

I don't like UWP, and I am not asking for the impossible. Put an Atom chip inside a phone and it will be able to run Win32 programs just fine. Make it accessible only when Continuum is on if you think people will accidentally launch Win32 programs while in "phone mode" (which would end up being a terrible experience).

I really don't see how that is "asking for the impossible". When you use Continuum your phone basically becomes a small desktop. Asking to run desktop programs when sitting down at a desk is not too much to ask for. As for the last sentence, you are basically saying "Microsoft is doing this therefore it is the best!". That's what a fanboy would say. It is not based on any facts or logic.

 

 

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

They want Win32 to be phased out and be used LESS and not MORE.

Yes and I think that is a terrible thing which actually frightens me. I want more openness and power to developers. UWP spits in the face of all of what I stand for.

UWP is about making a walled garden of fart apps for the desktop.

[AlTech]

Just now, LAwLz said:

So exactly the same as with Windows phone, unless you were ignorant enough to buy it without knowing all the drawbacks of Windows Phone.

 No. Different target market and target audience. People don't complain who use Macs because they usually find what they want or run Windows on their mac using BootCamp.

 

Windows Phones users are annoyed at the app gap and most wish for it to be removed so that most if not all Android apps are on Windows 10 Mobile.

 

Just now, LAwLz said:

I don't like UWP, and I am not asking for the impossible. Put an Atom chip inside a phone and it will be able to run Win32 programs just fine. Make it accessible only when Continuum is on if you think people will accidentally launch Win32 programs while in "phone mode" (which would end up being a terrible experience).

That's kinda impossible considering Intel just said that they're gonna stop making Atom chips.

Just now, LAwLz said:

I really don't see how that is "asking for the impossible". When you use Continuum your phone basically becomes a small desktop. Asking to run desktop programs when sitting down at a desk is not too much to ask for. As for the last sentence, you are basically saying "Microsoft is doing this therefore it is the best!". That's what a fanboy would say. It is not based on any facts or logic.

No. I was saying they were pushing to have apps using UWP. This would mean it could be used on Continuum.

 

You complain about not having access to Win32 on a phone. If you think that UWP shouldn't be used in Continuum then you are not the customer Microsoft is targeting.

 

Just now, LAwLz said:

Yes and I think that is a terrible thing which actually frightens me. I want more openness and power to developers. UWP spits in the face of all of what I stand for.

UWP is about making a walled garden of fart apps for the desktop.

No. UWP is about doing what Apple did with the mac app store.

 

Except it's going above and beyond what apple did.

[ManIkWeet]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

Android never promised to bring the desktop to your phone, but coincidentally Canonical is making a mobile OS capable of running Liux desktop application without requiring an x86 SoC.

Windows never promised to bring the desktop to your phone. It promises to make your phone function like a desktop.

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

You can develop for Android an any platform, and Google even released their own IDE (Android Studio) on all three platform, and if you think all it takes to develop for Android only requires Java SDKs, then go ahead, do it, tell me how that will go.

I never said you can develop Android without an SDK, that is silly.

 

You can develop cross-platform because Android used to be developed in Eclipse, an IDE that has been available cross-platform before Android even existed. Due to the nature of the Android SDK (Java/C++) it took no effort for Google at all to support cross-platform development, it was done for them.

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

For a while, you said it yourself, yes. All of Google's own app have support all the way back to Android 4.x, MS can't even support the previous OS? laughable

That's because Google's own apps don't have new features that require newer versions of Android. And when they do, those new features simply aren't available on older Androids.

 

Apple can't even support custom keyboards on the previous OS? Laughable.

It's a new feature, that requires new fundamental support, that isn't feasible to remake for older OSes.

 

DirectX12 is no difference, it's a new feature that requires new fundamental support, which is not available in previous OSes.

 

 

[BingoFishy]

On 7/19/2016 at 7:54 AM, AluminiumTech said:

Yeah man. Pekoman! Who even plays that? Everybody be at Pokémon Go  /jk

 

 

I'm joking! Yeah Pokémon Go is a bit of a sad joke. i'm not interested cos of Data Consumption and the fact that it's not on Windows 10 Mobile.

It doesn't use much data. Over the course of a month, probably less than 150 MB.

[ManIkWeet]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

UWP and what Ubuntu is doing are not the same thing, Ubuntu keeps legacy, UWP breaks it

Ubuntu doesn't break legacy because legacy has supported different platforms/architectures for a decade.

 

Microsoft legacy has existed long before Ubuntu, and did not keep different architectures in mind. UWP is changing that by being rebuilt to actually support cross-architecture development.

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

It just means Google isn't there to force people to use their newest and shiny by setting up artificial barriers 

DirectX12 isn't an artificial barrier, it's a fundamental feature that can't be made in older OSes. It's been baked into the core of Windows 10.

 

Same with iOS keyboards, it's not a standalone feature that can be ported to older OSes, as it's baked into the core of the new iOS.

 

Same with Google fingerprint support. Older versions of Android support it because device manufacturers came up with their own solution. Older versions don't support Google's solution.

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

Right they can bring all the new shiny telemetry to older OSs but they cant bring DX12 to a 1 gen older OS

That's because older versions of Windows support the majority of Telemetry already. Any new features from W10 are just omitted from Telemetry on W7/8/8.1

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

An IDE is composed of a code editor, a compiler or interpreter, a builder and a debugger, tell me where are the last three in VSC

Visual Studio Code does have support for compilers, interpreters and debuggers.

Debugging is even talked about on their main page: https://code.visualstudio.com/#powerful-debugging

 

Compilers are available through extensions, which makes sense because some compilers (like .NET 4+) aren't available cross-platform.

 

A builder is a different name for a compiler.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

No. Different target market and target audience. People don't complain who use Macs because they usually find what they want or run Windows on their mac using BootCamp.

BootCamp is not the same as running it natively. There is a fairly significant performance penalty making it unsuitable for a wide variety of programs.

 

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

That's kinda impossible considering Intel just said that they're gonna stop making Atom chips.

They never said that. They canceled two Atom lineups (so the future of Atom is kind of unclear) but that does not stop Microsoft from doing a special order (which companies like Apple has done several times from other companies), or use the currently available Atom chips. I have been saying it would be pretty cool (although niche) to have Win32 programs on a smartphone (for Continuum use) for several years. Microsoft was standing on the station and let several trains pass by without ever jumping onboard (because they have been half-assing Windows Phone all this time).

Why was there no Surface phone with Moorefield? If Microsoft wants to get into the smartphone game (I think it is too late now) then they can't just sit on their asses and expect a solution to be handed to them on a silver platter. They have to spend a lot of time and money to get ahead of their competitors.

Huawei spent 6.6 billion dollars on R&D last year. Microsoft spent 10.41 billion. Sounds like Microsoft spent way more, but if you look at R&D vs revenue Huawei spent a lot more (14.2% compared to 12%). Not only that, Huawei most likely spends a way bigger percentage of that total budget towards smartphone R&D (since Microsoft is spending a ton of money on cloud R&D. In 2011 they said 90% of their R&D budget was allocated to that).

 

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

You complain about not having access to Win32 on a phone. If you think that UWP shouldn't be used in Continuum then you are not the customer Microsoft is targeting.

Judging by the sales of Windows Phones, Microsoft is targeting a customer that does not exist.

 

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

No. UWP is about doing what Apple did with the mac app store.

 

Except it's going above and beyond what apple did.

No, they are aiming to do what Apple did with the app store. Create a closed eco system which hinders competition, limits developers and takes freedom away from the users. It is my worst nightmare to see it happen on the desktop.

The Mac app store is just a fancy GUI for a repository. UWP is not that at all (NuGet is like the OS X app store, except without the fancy GUI).

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ManIkWeet said:

I never said you can develop Android without an SDK, that is silly.

You did imply it though.

1 hour ago, ManIkWeet said:

You can develop cross-platform because Android used to be developed in Eclipse, an IDE that has been available cross-platform before Android even existed. Due to the nature of the Android SDK (Java/C++) it took no effort for Google at all to support cross-platform development, it was done for them.

That is completely false. Android Studio and the Android SDK did not appear out of nothing. Google worked to create it. You can not develop Android apps with Eclipse by itself. If you want to use Eclipse to develop Android apps then you have to download the Android SDK and then add the ADT plugin to Eclipse. Just so you know, Google specifically had to develop it in a certain way to make it work with Eclipse. You got this thing completely backwards.

You think it was like this:

Android is created -> Since Eclipse works with Java it also works with Android apps. No work from Google needed.

What actually happened was this:

Android is created -> Google creates an SDK -> Google realize that Java developers like using Eclipse so they create a plugin which allows the Android SDK to hook into Eclipse -> Google also release their own IDE.

 

Please stop talking about things you do not understand. You got this completely backwards.

 

 

2 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

That's because Google's own apps don't have new features that require newer versions of Android. And when they do, those new features simply aren't available on older Androids.

While that is partially true, it has more to do with the fact that Google has decoupled a lot of APIs from the Android core. A wide variety of APIs can now be updated by updating a service called the Google Pay Services. This can be updated independently from the OS. By creating the Google Play Services, Google can now rollout API updates to devices automatically, and without users and manufacturers having to update from let's say Android 4.3 to Android 4.4.

Please stop talking about things you do not understand.

[byalexandr]

thank god

 

All I hear at work when I'm browsing Reddit on my Lumia 1020: "DID YOU CATCH ANY POKEMON BRO?!" "YOU BEEN PLAYING POKEMON MAN? COME ON, YOU DON'T GOTTA LIE"

[iamdarkyoshi]

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

I know. But it's unreasonable to expect that on a phone form factor.

 

Microsoft themselves insist that all devices under 10 inches should not run full Windows 10 Desktop and instead should run Windows 10 Mobile.

I know someone with a windows 10 tablet in a 7in form factor. It runs a standard windows 10 desktop OS.

[AlTech]

30 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

I know someone with a windows 10 tablet in a 7in form factor. It runs a standard windows 10 desktop OS.

Microsoft sets manufacturing guidelines.

 

It's up to an OEM to follow them or not.

 

This is their guideline

 

Anything 4-6" should run Windows 10 mobile - Phones

 

Anything 7-9" should generally run Windows 10 Mobile

 

Anything 10+ inches should generally run Windows 10

[Serin]

1 hour ago, byalexandr said:

thank god

 

All I hear at work when I'm browsing Reddit on my Lumia 1020: "DID YOU CATCH ANY POKEMON BRO?!" "YOU BEEN PLAYING POKEMON MAN? COME ON, YOU DON'T GOTTA LIE"

There's gotta be a way to run NOX or something on it surely.

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

I never said you can develop Android without an SDK, that is silly.

 

You can develop cross-platform because Android used to be developed in Eclipse, an IDE that has been available cross-platform before Android even existed. Due to the nature of the Android SDK (Java/C++) it took no effort for Google at all to support cross-platform development, it was done for them.

Okay then, download Eclipse and make an hello world app for android only with eclipse, i'll wait here for the result

3 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

That's because Google's own apps don't have new features that require newer versions of Android. And when they do, those new features simply aren't available on older Androids.

 

Apple can't even support custom keyboards on the previous OS? Laughable.

It's a new feature, that requires new fundamental support, that isn't feasible to remake for older OSes.

 

DirectX12 is no difference, it's a new feature that requires new fundamental support, which is not available in previous OSes.

But when they can they will make new api capable of running on older versions

older version could support custom keyboards when jailbroken, Apple is just acting as bad as MS

DX12 really doubt that that's the reason; too bad it's not open, i'd bet your run of the mill neck beard would have been able to make it work on previous OSes.

4 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

Ubuntu doesn't break legacy because legacy has supported different platforms/architectures for a decade.

 

Microsoft legacy has existed long before Ubuntu, and did not keep different architectures in mind. UWP is changing that by being rebuilt to actually support cross-architecture development.

all they would have need is something like wine for ARM on Windows, if this guys can do it

can't see how MS with access to their own source code can't make offer a more refined, polish solution

 

4 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

Visual Studio Code does have support for compilers, interpreters and debuggers.

Debugging is even talked about on their main page: https://code.visualstudio.com/#powerful-debugging

 

Compilers are available through extensions, which makes sense because some compilers (like .NET 4+) aren't available cross-platform.

 

A builder is a different name for a compiler.

an IDE is a one package thing, not a "you can have it access a random compiler you already installed", Boreland C++ is an IDE, VS is an IDE, Eclipse is an IDE, Netbeans is an IDE, xCode is an IDE, VSC is not IDE, Notepad++ is not an IDE,  Gedit is not an IDE, Atom is not an IDE

4 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

Windows never promised to bring the desktop to your phone. It promises to make your phone function like a desktop.

when you tell someone that your phone will bring you the desktop experience, what are you supposed to imagine it will do? to me it means actually run programs you use on the desktop, but maybe that's just me