Tesla driver gets killed with AutoPilot active

[SirNumbers]

Were they sleeping, he didnt realize his car was drifting under a truck. If you touch the steering wheel you get complete control back

[wrath]

8 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Oh great now people are going to go running away from self-driving cars again for another decade...

Sadly that's how most people work

[Thony]

I really hope Tesla doesn't come out of this as an evil in the eyes of Public (general people, not press..).

 

Even if it was an autopilot malfunction it shouldn't be Tesla's fault. We don't live in perfect world and any tech fail from time to time. As Tesla states "Driver must be alert". 

 

When your breaks fail or u get flat tyre u don't go and sue the roadway service for not keeping it clean or tyre company....

[NinjaJc01]

8 hours ago, theninja35 said:

I'm okay with that. I'd rather drive the car than have it drive me.

Drive you.. Mad?

[ChrisCross]

you know what i get the volvo engineer. some people are stupid enough to fully trust the system. maybe the mercedes approach on the technology isnt that bad afterall.

i feel sorry for the poor man but if you dont look at the road thats what happens. maybe tesla will use this opportunity to correct the issue (white sky white truck). 

[comicsansms]

The car saved him once, but the 2nd time it killed him.

 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-01/tesla-driver-killed-while-car-was-in-on-autopilot/7560126

[ChrisCross]

8 hours ago, brune67 said:

I don't care if the government assures me or not, there is no way I will get in a car even that has the capability to do that.

mhm why? i mean you dont have to turn it on do you? and planes are controlled that way for years now. most of the starts and landings are automated anyways. they just turn it off if there is bad weather!

[ManIkWeet]

I wonder how fast the Tesla was driving, considering the tractor driver was at fault. If the Tesla was autopiloting at 60mph (100km/h-ish) then I can imagine it not seeing the trailer in time, the camera is limited in range... If the user happened to look away for a moment, then this can very well happen within seconds.

 

It's also possible that the user fainted right before the next "is the user paying attention" check from the Tesla.

 

It makes sense that it is fatal, the trailer hit the windshield. Your head is usually right behind that windshield...

 

The issue here is the trailer: why doesn't it have shielding at the bottom so you can't go below it? Because there are no regulations like in Europe enforcing that!

[Bouzoo]

Notice how it says that the tractor was driving across the highway. Not sure how it looked, but nor an AI nor a driver can react in proper way if a tractor drives perpendicular to you on a highway. How did he even drove like that I'm not sure. 

Also the auto-pilot is still in beta mode and as such it's the drivers fault from what I got, you don't just let it drive you if it first warns you. 

[theninja35]

2 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

-snip-

The issue here is the trailer: why doesn't it have shielding at the bottom so you can't go below it? Because there are no regulations like in Europe enforcing that!

There are "shielding" regulations on the back of semi-truck trailers in the US. However, because of the many sizes and heights of trailers as well as the very poor road conditions in many areas, shielding/railing on the underside of trailers could be very disruptive. Also, the truck or car should have stopped whether it was the driver's fault or not, because I can only assume there would be some means of traffic control on a divided highway. Whether it be a stop sign or a traffic light, I cannot imagine they would let it go uncontrolled. Either way, it's the driver's fault in this situation (truck driver or Tesla driver).

 

2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Notice how it says that the tractor was driving across the highway. Not sure how it looked, but nor an AI nor a driver can react in proper way if a tractor drives perpendicular to you on a highway. How did he even drove like that I'm not sure. 

Also the auto-pilot is still in beta mode and as such it's the drivers fault from what I got, you don't just let it drive you if it first warns you. 

They said highway but it was most likely a four-lane road with a median. We call those "highways", but they're really not. The travel speed on those roads, here in Michigan, is only 55MPH and occasionally 45MPH. Intersections occur often on roads like the one mentioned. I'm assuming there was a light or even a stop sign on one side. So, either the truck ran a red light or the car did.

[spartaman64]

4 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Notice how it says that the tractor was driving across the highway. Not sure how it looked, but nor an AI nor a driver can react in proper way if a tractor drives perpendicular to you on a highway. How did he even drove like that I'm not sure. 

Also the auto-pilot is still in beta mode and as such it's the drivers fault from what I got, you don't just let it drive you if it first warns you. 

im probably going to have an unpopular opinion but i think it is tesla's fault and they shouldnt have allowed normal people to use it when it is in beta. the person in this case is probably thinking it braked like a hundred other times so it should brake now and when he realised that it isnt going to brake it was probably too late.

[Bouzoo]

23 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

im probably going to have an unpopular opinion but i think it is tesla's fault and they shouldnt have allowed normal people to use it when it is in beta. the person in this case is probably thinking it braked like a hundred other times so it should brake now and when he realised that it isnt going to brake it was probably too late.

We need more details about this, because some things are weird things. However beta is quite a dfficult term since

Quote

Tesla says Autopilot has been used for more than 130 million miles, noting that, on average, a fatality occurs every 94 million miles in the US and every 60 million miles worldwide.

130 million is certainly not a small amount, to me it seems enough to put it in beta use if you will. From that you could say higher chances are that a human may kill himself than an autopilot.

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Notice how it says that the tractor was driving across the highway. Not sure how it looked, but nor an AI nor a driver can react in proper way if a tractor drives perpendicular to you on a highway. How did he even drove like that I'm not sure. 

Also the auto-pilot is still in beta mode and as such it's the drivers fault from what I got, you don't just let it drive you if it first warns you. 

 

4 hours ago, theninja35 said:

There are "shielding" regulations on the back of semi-truck trailers in the US. However, because of the many sizes and heights of trailers as well as the very poor road conditions in many areas, shielding/railing on the underside of trailers could be very disruptive. Also, the truck or car should have stopped whether it was the driver's fault or not, because I can only assume there would be some means of traffic control on a divided highway. Whether it be a stop sign or a traffic light, I cannot imagine they would let it go uncontrolled. Either way, it's the driver's fault in this situation (truck driver or Tesla driver).

 

They said highway but it was most likely a four-lane road with a median. We call those "highways", but they're really not. The travel speed on those roads, here in Michigan, is only 55MPH and occasionally 45MPH. Intersections occur often on roads like the one mentioned. I'm assuming there was a light or even a stop sign on one side. So, either the truck ran a red light or the car did.

That is a hell of a lot of assumptions about the road. You have no idea whether this was on a "real" highway (like an Interstate, or equivalent), or if it was just a median divided multi-lane inner city roadway. That's 100% speculation.

 

I suspect that both the Transport Truck as well as the Tesla were driving on the same side of the road, in the same direction, and that the Transport Truck swerved suddenly across the lanes, cutting the Tesla off. When the news article says the truck was driving "across" the highway, I interpret that to mean that the truck was at one end (Lets say the outer most right lane for example) and then suddenly swerved across all the other lanes to the opposite side of the road. Perhaps the truck got multiple flat tires and lost control, or perhaps he fell asleep at the wheel.

 

In this scenario, it likely would not have mattered much if the Tesla driver was awake and paying attention, or even if Autopilot was engaged or not. If you're driving 100KM/H, and a transport truck right beside you suddenly swerves across multiple lanes - you're fucking dead. The end. Period. That's it. Your average human would not be able to react in time. By the time they realize what is happening, and tell their hands to swerve, the truck will have already ran them over.

 

Now, could this have been prevented by the Tesla driver being in control? Unknown. We simply do not have enough information. As I said above, my thoughts are suspicions only, and are not confirmed. They are speculative. We do not know enough about what happened to definitely say "This was the Tesla drivers fault".

 

Maybe it was. Maybe it was the truck driver. Maybe it was both of their fault. Until we learn more about the circumstances, we will simply be unable to say for sure.

[Sauron]

I'd correct the title, he didn't die with the autopilot active, he died BECAUSE of the autopilot.

20 hours ago, othertomperson said:

"Autopilot"? I wasn't aware that Tesla had commercial self-driving cards. I thought what they had was more like a type of cruise control...

No, it's full self driving, but since it's experimental you're supposed to pay attention anyway. This accident clearly shows why. Basically the sensors confused a white truck with the sky and the car drove right under it.

[theninja35]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

 

That is a hell of a lot of assumptions about the road. You have no idea whether this was on a "real" highway (like an Interstate, or equivalent), or if it was just a median divided multi-lane inner city roadway. That's 100% speculation.

 

I suspect that both the Transport Truck as well as the Tesla were driving on the same side of the road, in the same direction, and that the Transport Truck swerved suddenly across the lanes, cutting the Tesla off. When the news article says the truck was driving "across" the highway, I interpret that to mean that the truck was at one end (Lets say the outer most right lane for example) and then suddenly swerved across all the other lanes to the opposite side of the road. Perhaps the truck got multiple flat tires and lost control, or perhaps he fell asleep at the wheel.

 

In this scenario, it likely would not have mattered much if the Tesla driver was awake and paying attention, or even if Autopilot was engaged or not. If you're driving 100KM/H, and a transport truck right beside you suddenly swerves across multiple lanes - you're fucking dead. The end. Period. That's it. Your average human would not be able to react in time. By the time they realize what is happening, and tell their hands to swerve, the truck will have already ran them over.

 

Now, could this have been prevented by the Tesla driver being in control? Unknown. We simply do not have enough information. As I said above, my thoughts are suspicions only, and are not confirmed. They are speculative. We do not know enough about what happened to definitely say "This was the Tesla drivers fault".

 

Maybe it was. Maybe it was the truck driver. Maybe it was both of their fault. Until we learn more about the circumstances, we will simply be unable to say for sure.

Perhaps, but your idea seems to be speculation as well. The article says that the truck was perpendicular to the Tesla, which would mean the truck would have to have a massive amount of space to turn anywhere near 90 degrees to the rest of the highway. Perhaps you're right, maybe the truck missed a u-turn and tried to cut across or had a flat tire or anything similar. But don't you think that the article would mention that if this was the case? Or do you think that they are trying to make the Tesla/driver appear worse than they really are? I sense that there would be more of a description if the semi-truck simply cut across the highway in an attempt to do something.

 

I am also assuming the "highway" is a "road" with multiple lanes because of the way the accident is explained. The only way for the truck to be perpendicular is to either have enough lane/space, which we've been over, or to come from another road that is perpendicular to the "highway". Most Interstates do not have intersections without being raised/lowered below the intersection, so if the truck was directly perpendicular or coming from another road/highway, I could only imagine the Tesla was on a four-lane "road" and not a "highway".

 

Hopefully you understand what I am trying to say.

 

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, theninja35 said:

Perhaps, but your idea seems to be speculation as well. The article says that the truck was perpendicular to the Tesla, which would mean the truck would have to have a massive amount of space to turn anywhere near 90 degrees to the rest of the highway. Perhaps you're right, maybe the truck missed a u-turn and tried to cut across or had a flat tire or anything similar. But don't you think that the article would mention that if this was the case? Or do you think that they are trying to make the Tesla/driver appear worse than they really are? I sense that there would be more of a description if the semi-truck simply cut across the highway in an attempt to do something.

 

I am also assuming the "highway" is a "road" with multiple lanes because of the way the accident is explained. The only way for the truck to be perpendicular is to either have enough lane/space, which we've been over, or to come from another road that is perpendicular to the "highway". Most Interstates do not have intersections without being raised/lowered below the intersection, so if the truck was directly perpendicular or coming from another road/highway, I could only imagine the Tesla was on a four-lane "road" and not a "highway".

 

Hopefully you understand what I am trying to say.

 

Oh of course what I am saying is speculation too. I explicitly said so in my post. My entire point was that the article was pretty vague on some important details, so it's impossible for us to say one way or the other.

 

Perpendicular has a specific definition, but since they didn't use the specific definition of "Highway", how can I trust that they used "perpendicular" as well? The truck might have jackknifed (This happens when a truck slams on the breaks too hard, and the trailer doesn't slow down as fast as the cab, and thus swings out to the side at a 90deg angle, thus making it perpendicular to the Tesla). Again, total speculation. You could be 100% correct. We just don't know. The truck might also have been entering the highway on an on-ramp and somehow lost control. There are numerous ways that a truck can be perpendicular (though most are unlikely, to be fair). Or of course, "perpendicular" might not have been used precisely.

 

I agree that the article probably would have mentioned it, but hey, the article didn't mention a ton of stuff, so therefore I can not conclude anything from the article until more info is released. I totally understand what you're saying though. It's not to say that I disagree with you, but rather, there's very little solid information to confirm any of our suspicions.

[theninja35]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Oh of course what I am saying is speculation too. I explicitly said so in my post. My entire point was that the article was pretty vague on some important details, so it's impossible for us to say one way or the other.

 

Perpendicular has a specific definition, but since they didn't use the specific definition of "Highway", how can I trust that they used "perpendicular" as well? The truck might have jackknifed (This happens when a truck slams on the breaks too hard, and the trailer doesn't slow down as fast as the cab, and thus swings out to the side at a 90deg angle, thus making it perpendicular to the Tesla). Again, total speculation. You could be 100% correct. We just don't know. The truck might also have been entering the highway on an on-ramp and somehow lost control. There are numerous ways that a truck can be perpendicular (though most are unlikely, to be fair). Or of course, "perpendicular" might not have been used precisely.

 

I agree that the article probably would have mentioned it, but hey, the article didn't mention a ton of stuff, so therefore I can not conclude anything from the article until more info is released. I totally understand what you're saying though. It's not to say that I disagree with you, but rather, there's very little solid information to confirm any of our suspicions.

Yes, you have made some very good points here. I am convinced that there is no true conclusion of what has happened because of the lack of information provided by the article. I suppose we will have to wait and see if they release further information, though the accident was nearly two months ago and I doubt any more information will be revealed.

 

Good debate, I think you've won. I have no more counter-arguments.

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, theninja35 said:

Yes, you have made some very good points here. I am convinced that there is no true conclusion of what has happened because of the lack of information provided by the article. I suppose we will have to wait and see if they release further information, though the accident was nearly two months ago and I doubt any more information will be revealed.

 

Good debate, I think you've won. I have no more counter-arguments.

Haha I wouldn't say that I "won". You had some excellent points as well. Let's call it a stale mate

 

The fact that they use the word perpendicular really does tend to lean in the favour of your explanation of how it might have happened. It really all comes down to what the fuck they mean by "highway", because you're right, a real highway has no intersections, no stop lights, no stop signs, no crossing of different roads across at a perpendicular angle, etc.

 

Possibly a large boulevard or parkway? I'm kind of envisioning a large 4-lane road, with a center median, going through the downtown area of a town. That's what I envision with your scenario. In such a case, this accident could easily happen.

[ttam]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Haha I wouldn't say that I "won". You had some excellent points as well. Let's call it a stale mate

 

The fact that they use the word perpendicular really does tend to lean in the favour of your explanation of how it might have happened. It really all comes down to what the fuck they mean by "highway", because you're right, a real highway has no intersections, no stop lights, no stop signs, no crossing of different roads across at a perpendicular angle, etc.

 

Possibly a large boulevard or parkway? I'm kind of envisioning a large 4-lane road, with a center median, going through the downtown area of a town. That's what I envision with your scenario. In such a case, this accident could easily happen.

A lot of US highways are designed like this.. with stop lights and intersecting roads.

[theninja35]

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Haha I wouldn't say that I "won". You had some excellent points as well. Let's call it a stale mate

 

The fact that they use the word perpendicular really does tend to lean in the favour of your explanation of how it might have happened. It really all comes down to what the fuck they mean by "highway", because you're right, a real highway has no intersections, no stop lights, no stop signs, no crossing of different roads across at a perpendicular angle, etc.

 

Possibly a large boulevard or parkway? I'm kind of envisioning a large 4-lane road, with a center median, going through the downtown area of a town. That's what I envision with your scenario. In such a case, this accident could easily happen.

Yes, a boulevard or parkway. The primary reason I came to believe that the accident occurred at an intersection of a 4-lane road/boulevard is because of how popular said roads seem to be in Florida. They are pleasing to the eye when combined with the Palm Trees that are common in Florida. However, after researching Williston, Florida (the location this accident occurred), I'm not so sure that a road like this would be common. Williston appears to be a small area and I am not sure a 4-lane road like this would be particularly common.

 

I can understand both your guess as well as mine equally because of the circumstances and the information provided. I would like to learn more on what really happened, but unfortunately, I believe we might not ever know.

 

2 minutes ago, ttam said:

A lot of US highways are designed like this.. with stop lights and intersecting roads.

Most true highways do not have any intersections in order to maintain the flow of traffic. Four-lane roads/"highways" often times have these intersections, and that's where the truck would truly be perpendicular to the Tesla.

[dalekphalm]

7 minutes ago, ttam said:

A lot of US highways are designed like this.. with stop lights and intersecting roads.

They might very well be common, but they're still wrong

 

If a highway has anything that makes the flow of traffic stop, then they're doing it wrong. Highways should exclusively use merging and splitting, and off/on-ramps to control the flow of traffic, as well as the splitting and merging of different roads.

 

While I understand this isn't always followed, it baffles me when it's not. (Just like it infuriates me to watch a SimCity or Cities Skylines playthrough, and the LP'er puts a damn redlight intersection right in the middle of their major highway, and they get confused as to why there is bad traffic there).

[TetraSky]

Tesla really shouldn't have named this system "auto pilot", it makes people think that it truly can drive itself 100%, even if they clearly say it isn't... This is not the same as an actual Self driving car... it's just a more advanced "cruise control".

[ttam]

8 minutes ago, theninja35 said:

Most true highways do not have any intersections in order to maintain the flow of traffic. Four-lane roads/"highways" often times have these intersections, and that's where the truck would truly be perpendicular to the Tesla.

There are many different types of highways and freeways. I've seen a lot of highways that have lights and intersections. When I was living in Utah, we had Bangerter Highway which had intersections with stoplights for miles and miles and miles.

[ttam]

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

They might very well be common, but they're still wrong

 

If a highway has anything that makes the flow of traffic stop, then they're doing it wrong. Highways should exclusively use merging and splitting, and off/on-ramps to control the flow of traffic, as well as the splitting and merging of different roads.

 

While I understand this isn't always followed, it baffles me when it's not. (Just like it infuriates me to watch a SimCity or Cities Skylines playthrough, and the LP'er puts a damn redlight intersection right in the middle of their major highway, and they get confused as to why there is bad traffic there).

"A highway that's not a freeway may also have long stretches that are without any intersections. But highways typically have lower speed limits, may pass through inhabited areas where there are traffic signals, pedestrians or other slower traffic."

 

This is exactly how it was intended to be since it was invented in the USA by Mr Dwight Eisnenhower.

 

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, ttam said:

"A highway that's not a freeway may also have long stretches that are without any intersections. But highways typically have lower speed limits, may pass through inhabited areas where there are traffic signals, pedestrians or other slower traffic."

 

I suppose this is where we might have cultural differences. A Freeway here is generally only a major highway, such as the 400 series highways, these tend to be the biggest with the highest speed limit.

 

I will accede that in some areas, a highway might have intersections and stop lights, but only in remote areas. A properly designed highway will never have an intersection, unless it's going through a small town and is a low traffic area to begin with.

 

Either way I will give you points for that.