"Brexit"

[maulemall]

Really does my heart good when the will of the people is done. Good ,bad or Indifferent it's a beautiful thing.

[maulemall]

just heard that John Kerry is going to Brussels to make everything all right.

[Trik'Stari]

3 hours ago, Mug said:

Well, the EU is a free-market capitalist body, advocating "proper capitalism".

I'll give you an example, the British steel industry makes no money. The British government wants to nationalise it to protect jobs. However, the EU would block this move because there are successful steel industries in other countries and nationalising British steel would harm the market within the EU.

This is the trouble, does free-market capitalism actually benefit the UK? Does it benefit anywhere really? Like in the west, our jobs are constantly being undecut and outsourced. In Poland for example, which is part of the European market, workers can get paid as low as £1.50/hour and since Polish companies have the right to trade on equal grounds with Western Europe as Western European business, all that happens is that Western European businesses get undercut. Meanwhile, countries like Romania are experiencing unprecedented economic growth. This is the real anger from European countries, where did our economies go?

You make some fair points.

 

Hopefully we aren't too far off from the point where automation makes work, and thus currency, completely obsolete, and we can live (probably very briefly) in a utopia provided for by technology.

 

More likely, the people at the top will fire everyone, automate, and then laugh as everyone starves because no one has any money to buy the products that now cost almost nothing to produce.

[Thorium19]

All I can say on the topic of brexit now, is that I'm rather pleased that this still has to go to parliament to be voted on, before we can initiate article 50 legally. And as there are 350 MPs known to be pro remain,  that's a majority of 50 already, so it's actually looking more unlikely that we will be leaving the EU, which really makes me feel better.

As long as Messrs Johnson, Gove, Greyling and Farage are kept away from number 10 (Give the PM job to Theresa May please!) then I'll feel a lot better about the whole situation, because Farage is, to be blunt, An absolute nonce. Greyling is an incompetent excuse for a genetically enhanced ape, Gove hasn't learnt to lie straight (he managed to screw up lying about his parents jobs) and Boris is a two-faced double-crossing career advancing plonker who looks like an etonian educated Donald Trump.

 

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Thorium19 said:

All I can say on the topic of brexit now, is that I'm rather pleased that this still has to go to parliament to be voted on, before we can initiate article 50 legally. And as there are 350 MPs known to be pro remain,  that's a majority of 50 already, so it's actually looking more unlikely that we will be leaving the EU, which really makes me feel better.

As long as Messrs Johnson, Gove, Greyling and Farage are kept away from number 10 (Give the PM job to Theresa May please!) then I'll feel a lot better about the whole situation, because Farage is, to be blunt, An absolute nonce. Greyling is an incompetent excuse for a genetically enhanced ape, Gove hasn't learnt to lie straight (he managed to screw up lying about his parents jobs) and Boris is a two-faced double-crossing career advancing plonker who looks like an etonian educated Donald Trump.

 

If Parliament blocks the leave there will be a full blown civil war, we voted, the result was final and the people decided. No matter what politicians think of the result they will block it at their peril. 

[Real_PhillBert]

2 hours ago, Thorium19 said:

All I can say on the topic of brexit now, is that I'm rather pleased that this still has to go to parliament to be voted on, before we can initiate article 50 legally. And as there are 350 MPs known to be pro remain,  that's a majority of 50 already, so it's actually looking more unlikely that we will be leaving the EU, which really makes me feel better.

As long as Messrs Johnson, Gove, Greyling and Farage are kept away from number 10 (Give the PM job to Theresa May please!) then I'll feel a lot better about the whole situation, because Farage is, to be blunt, An absolute nonce. Greyling is an incompetent excuse for a genetically enhanced ape, Gove hasn't learnt to lie straight (he managed to screw up lying about his parents jobs) and Boris is a two-faced double-crossing career advancing plonker who looks like an etonian educated Donald Trump.

 

*SNIP*

I don't really have a horse in this race one way or the other, but you do have to realize how incredibly dangerous it is to have a government disregarding the will of the majority of the population, right?

 

Leaving the EU will not be without it's hardships but after the population has spoken as it has, any action to the contrary by the government should be carefully monitored. 

[vorticalbox]

5 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

I don't really have a horse in this race one way or the other, but you do have to realize how incredibly dangerous it is to have a government disregarding the will of the majority of the population, right?

 

Leaving the EU will not be without it's hardships but after the population has spoken as it has, any action to the contrary by the government should be carefully monitored. 

hence why so many people are resigning. Any one who becomes prime minister in October will with have tonnes of work dragging the UK out of the EU or will no invoke article 50 and commit political suicide not following the wish of the people.

 

Me leaving in scotland, which mostly voted to stay in the EU think it's unfair for us to get dragged out of it against are will. We might see an independent Scotland again.

[DildorTheDecent]

16 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

Me leaving in scotland, which mostly voted to stay in the EU think it's unfair for us to get dragged out of it against are will. We might see an independent Scotland again.

Same here in Northern Ireland. The counties closest to the Irish border voted remain while the counties closer to england i guess voted leave. 

 

If Northern Ireland were to leave the UK then there'd be a united ireland. Either that or join scotland for our own UK

[Secret Hitler]

I am still curious who this is going to turn out. If we do end up staying in the EU I will lose all hope for voting in this country. 

 

I thought the whole point of a vote was for the majority vote to win. Apparently though because alot of people didn't like the outcome, they are thinking about having a revote. I voted to leave, if the remain side had won I would have just accepted the loss and moved on but apparently the remain side are refusing to do that. It is a load of shit and either way it turns out there is going to be some serious trouble in our country... possibly even a civil war judging by how militant some ppeople are being about this,

[Rodinski]

19 minutes ago, Secret Hitler said:

I am still curious who this is going to turn out. If we do end up staying in the EU I will lose all hope for voting in this country. 

 

I thought the whole point of a vote was for the majority vote to win. Apparently though because alot of people didn't like the outcome, they are thinking about having a revote. I voted to leave, if the remain side had won I would have just accepted the loss and moved on but apparently the remain side are refusing to do that. It is a load of shit and either way it turns out there is going to be some serious trouble in our country... possibly even a civil war judging by how militant some ppeople are being about this,

See, I just don't get this.  All these SJWs are all for democracy as long as it is their democracy.  In the end, they don't believe in democracy, in it's own right.  This seems to be common in those who lean left.  The new democratic movement resembles more of a nazi-like (in political structure) environment than something new and progressive.

 

I'm at my wits end with social media.  The fear-mongering has gotten out of hand.  I would vote for mandatory IQ tests for everyone that uses the internet at this point.

[Master Disaster]

46 minutes ago, Rodinski said:

See, I just don't get this.  All these SJWs are all for democracy as long as it is their democracy.  In the end, they don't believe in democracy, in it's own right.  This seems to be common in those who lean left.  The new democratic movement resembles more of a nazi-like (in political structure) environment than something new and progressive.

 

I'm at my wits end with social media.  The fear-mongering has gotten out of hand.  I would vote for mandatory IQ tests for everyone that uses the internet at this point.

Democracy died the day proportional representation became the norm, it's not about everyone having a say anymore, these days it's about who holds the most power has the biggest influence and those with no power have no control over anything, any apparent power we have is nothing but smoke and mirrors. 

 

I said this before the vote, we have no choice in the outcome of this, our vote means nothing. At the end of the day it comes down to politicians to decide and they WILL do what's best for them, not us. 

[rm -rf]

13 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Democracy died the day proportional representation became the norm, it's not about everyone having a say anymore, these days it's about who holds the most power has the biggest influence and those with no power have no control over anything, any apparent power we have is nothing but smoke and mirrors. 

 

I said this before the vote, we have no choice in the outcome of this, our vote means nothing. At the end of the day it comes down to politicians to decide and they WILL do what's best for them, not us. 

True Democracy is bad

[stconquest]

7 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

True Democracy is bad

That is hard for a lot of people to understand.  Brainwashing extreme edition.

[rm -rf]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

That is hard for a lot of people to understand.  Brainwashing extreme edition.

It's not that people don't realise that it isn't good, it's that they don't realise what system they actually have.

The current system (in countries like Australia) are probably the best we'll ever have.

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

It's not that people don't realise that it isn't good, it's that they don't realise what system they actually have.

The current system (in countries like Australia) are probably the best we'll ever have.

I was thinking more of something like this:

 

You have one person out of 100 that can solve a problem and 99 people have a general idea of what direction start in to form an analysis help to solving the problem.

 

A democracy could very easily mean that the problem won't be immediately solved and maybe take a long while.

[rm -rf]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

I was thinking more of something like this:

 

You have one person out of 100 that can solve a problem and 99 people have a general idea of what direction start in to form an analysis help to solving the problem.

 

A democracy could very easily mean that the problem won't be immediately solved and maybe take a long while.

Yes, that's why true democracy doesn't work.

Though a representative democracy with a modern voting system is a good way to take into consideration the needs of the many.

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

Yes, that's why true democracy doesn't work.

Though a representative democracy with a modern voting system is a good way to take into consideration the needs of the many.

Unless you live in the USA.  I don't mean to bash, but they made bribery legal.  The needs of the many are out funded by the "needs" of the few.  I am using the term needs loosely for the latter.

[rm -rf]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

Unless you live in the USA.  I don't mean to bash, but they made bribery legal.  The needs of the many are out funded by the "needs" of the few.  I am using the term needs loosely for the latter.

Yes, and their voting system is built to give more power to the sheeple and unrepresentativly less to minorities.

[stconquest]

7 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

Yes, and their voting system is built to give more power to the sheeple and unrepresentativly less to minorities.

Well... control the masses and you control the "democracy".

 

You may be far away from this corrupt type of practice.  My country is a stone skip from the USA and we consider each other friendly neighbors.  We just got a PM out of office that was using his position to sully the benefits of our current system, instead of improving on what already is working.

 

If you take something good and mess it up, then convince people it was never good, you can have those same people accept something worse in order to gain whatever objective you personally had in store for the future.

 

@rm -rf  Loose example of the difference between political lines and cultural ones:  My cousin was surprised to see KKK members handing out flyers not 30 minutes from where I live in a public mall. 

 

I have a problem with this personally.  I have seen my government attack a man that re-tweeted an ISIS post.  Was incarcerated and then released with over a dozen conditions including not being able to use the internet. 

 

I do not see a difference between these ideologies:  KKK, ISIS.  Same shit to me.

[rm -rf]

4 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Well... control the masses and you control the "democracy".

 

You may be far away from this corrupt type of practice.  My country is a stone skip from the USA and we consider each other friendly neighbors.  We just got a PM out of office that was using his position to sully the benefits of our current system, instead of improving on what already is working.

 

If you take something good and mess it up, then convince people it was never good, you can have those same people accept something worse in order to gain whatever objective you personally had in store for the future.

Though how could they control the masses?

What country is that if you don't mind me asking?

[stconquest]

3 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

Though how could they control the masses?

What country is that if you don't mind me asking?

People have a very short reach when it comes to investigating truths.  Most people do not have the time and energy to go out in the world to gather real and direct evidence.  Once you gain peoples trust, you can ultimately twist their beliefs in many ways using many techniques.

 

Example:  A large % of people trust authority figures of any nature:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[rm -rf]

4 minutes ago, stconquest said:

People have a very short reach when it comes to investigating truths.  Most people do not have the time and energy to go out in the world to gather real and direct evidence.  Once you gain peoples trust, you can ultimately twist their beliefs in many ways using many techniques.

 

Example:  A large % of people trust authority figures of any nature:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

I've heard of that, though I think that's different.

[stconquest]

25 minutes ago, rm -rf said:

I've heard of that, though I think that's different.

How is it different?  You have a level of trust in the population and you use it nefariously to get the masses to support any given cause.  As long as the masses do not have any means to gather intelligence on their own, most will follow their "trusted" sources.

 

@rm -rf  Remind me again how many billions of people believe that a little man in the clouds hears their prayers?

 

...or how chopping off the foreskin to a male's *you know what is beneficial?  <<It really isn't....really.

 

@rm -rf  That does not mean you should not trust people.  Just have a method to organizing what you hear:  Things I know, things I do not know.  Simple.   Things you know are aspects of life you have direct means to experiment with.  Everything else is relatively unknown.

 

My pediatrician was jewish and circumcised.  My mother asked him what should she do about me.  Luckily this man was honest and told her how useless it was to circumcise a child.  I trusted this man growing up, my mother did as well.  I went to him until he retired.

 

He could have easily given bad information at any point to appease a self serving desire, but fortunately did not.

 

Disclaimer:  For anyone reading this that has been circumcised... it is not the end of the world in my view.  You life is not in danger.  I would simply ask you really investigate the issue if/when a decision has to be made of your child.

 

Disclaimer #2:  I have realized through my own investigation that I am part of the LTT round table of going off topic in any thread... maybe even the king.

[vorticalbox]

3 hours ago, stconquest said:

How is it different?  You have a level of trust in the population and you use it nefariously to get the masses to support any given cause.  As long as the masses do not have any means to gather intelligence on their own, most will follow their "trusted" sources.

 

@rm -rf  Remind me again how many billions of people believe that a little man in the clouds hears their prayers?

 

...or how chopping off the foreskin to a male's *you know what is beneficial?  <<It really isn't....really.

 

@rm -rf  That does not mean you should not trust people.  Just have a method to organizing what you hear:  Things I know, things I do not know.  Simple.   Things you know are aspects of life you have direct means to experiment with.  Everything else is relatively unknown.

 

My pediatrician was jewish and circumcised.  My mother asked him what should she do about me.  Luckily this man was honest and told her how useless it was to circumcise a child.  I trusted this man growing up, my mother did as well.  I went to him until he retired.

 

He could have easily given bad information at any point to appease a self serving desire, but fortunately did not.

 

Disclaimer:  For anyone reading this that has been circumcised... it is not the end of the world in my view.  You life is not in danger.  I would simply ask you really investigate the issue if/when a decision has to be made of your child.

 

Disclaimer #2:  I have realized through my own investigation that I am part of the LTT round table of going off topic in any thread... maybe even the king.

too be fair i would agree the leaving the EU is the same as circumcision isn't any befit, the only difference is england cut it off by choice.

 

Spoiler

see back on topic.

 

[Mug]

20 hours ago, Secret Hitler said:

I am still curious who this is going to turn out. If we do end up staying in the EU I will lose all hope for voting in this country. 

 

I thought the whole point of a vote was for the majority vote to win. Apparently though because alot of people didn't like the outcome, they are thinking about having a revote. I voted to leave, if the remain side had won I would have just accepted the loss and moved on but apparently the remain side are refusing to do that. It is a load of shit and either way it turns out there is going to be some serious trouble in our country... possibly even a civil war judging by how militant some ppeople are being about this,

I think that the thing is that many leave voters didn't know what they voted for. Like what did you vote for? Common market integration like Norway where they have to follow the laws? A painful trade deal which would take years like Switzerland?

My point is simple: Leave voters were voting on multiple (and completely different) models of internationalism. I hate to say this, but I support Jeremy Hunt's idea for a second referendum on what we should be negotiating for... And perhaps if we should be negotiating. I think that is a valid argument for a second referendum.

 

19 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I said this before the vote, we have no choice in the outcome of this, our vote means nothing. At the end of the day it comes down to politicians to decide and they WILL do what's best for them, not us. 

It was an advisory referendum.