US government shuts down after Congress fails to pass funding bill

[Mooshi]

ummm, point #2  is not quite correct. i pay liek $300 in taxes, if that, because I make so little. the rich are able to pay to find loopholes. the middle class is somewhere between.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes.html

 

actually, most other contries lack super-advanced healthcare (are overloaded) due to the public healthcare system. i've heard people in the UK have to WAIT FOR THE ER.

 

I hear French healthcare is actually pretty good. But I see your point. It's still kinda odd we pay more than other nations and have so many go without healthcare because they can't afford it. It's sad actually. The scale of our country is so massive, that's a big factor that can't be ignored.

[Profquast]

HA i live in holland

Yeah our politicians are so great we are the only west-european country still in a recession

[Profquast]

We have so many parties here that a majority government won't ever be seen again. Since 2000 to 2012, we should've had 3 elections, once every four years. We've had five. There are about 4-5 parties with a legitimate shot at winning seats, and one of those is only present in Quebec. So we have minority governments right now, and since they don't have half the seats they can call for a reelection every time they don't like something, hence our five elections. Not having a majority also means it's damn near impossible to get anything through Parliament. And chances are, we won't see a majority government in the next long while. And you thought Congress liked to act like children, now you know what can happen every time there's a disagreement.

In the Netherlands we have a system where a few paries form a coalition so they have a majority, but the problem with that is that once every 2 years or so one party decides that they don't like it anymore so there are new elections. Also Wilders. He might have been in the news for some stupid anti-islam things. He does nothing but spew popular opinions and the worst thing is 20% of the Netherlands vote for him. I think you should pass a test or something before you may vote.

[Profquast]

goddammit double post. Can you delete posts?

[Sarcasm]

In the Netherlands we have a system where a few paries form a coalition so they have a majority, but the problem with that is that once every 2 years or so one party decides that they don't like it anymore so there are new elections. Also Wilders. He might have been in the news for some stupid anti-islam things. He does nothing but spew popular opinions and the worst thing is 20% of the Netherlands vote for him. I think you should pass a test or something before you may vote.

Well yes, we can do that too. Unfortunately, these parties don't get along well enough for that to happen.

[Slaeowulf]

ummm, point #2  is not quite correct. i pay liek $300 in taxes, if that, because I make so little. the rich are able to pay to find loopholes. the middle class is somewhere between.

 

Point 2 is correct. EVERYONE pays taxes. Be it a little, be it a lot, everyone pays them. When they don't, they get in trouble.

[wpirobotbuilder]

If nothing else, the shutdown will generate a lot of excellent memes.

 

I'll start.

 

[CoffeeBlack]

If this were any other country, I daresay there would be riots in the streets until things were fixed.

Us americans are too lazy to riot.

[mr moose]

If this were any other country, I daresay there would be riots in the streets until things were fixed.

 

It did happen in Australia.  The Whitlam Government.

 

This is one of the bennefits to having a monarchy and GG. they can dismiss a government when this happens.

 

http://whitlamdismissal.com/

[Commissar]

Point 2 is correct. EVERYONE pays taxes. Be it a little, be it a lot, everyone pays them. When they don't, they get in trouble.

not if you don't make anything. you can stay, on unemployment, and free healthcare, free housing, etc, and not have to work at all

[Slaeowulf]

you can stay, on unemployment, and free healthcare, free housing, etc, and not have to work at all

 

Not in America you can't. Not by a long way.

On that note: Do you not think that access to food, shelter and proper healthcare are basic human rights?

[beebskadoo]

Unfortunately these morons still get paid to sit on their asses. Pen Jillette For President!

[Slaeowulf]

not if you don't make anything

 

-.- Really? Is your argument that weak that you have to state the obvious despite it being completely irrelevant? 

[Sarcasm]

Unfortunately these morons still get paid to sit on their asses. Pen Jillette For President!

Bitch please, Wheatley 2016

[beebskadoo]

not if you don't make anything. you can stay, on unemployment, and free healthcare, free housing, etc, and not have to work at all

Bullshit. simply bullshit. 

[beebskadoo]

Bitch please, Wheatley 2016

I recall Wheatley betraying the player....

This could hurt his campaign a fair bit.

[Commissar]

Bullshit. simply bullshit. 

that's the "ideal" that obamacare is supposed to be. if I don't have to pay for anything, why should I work?

[Commissar]

-.- Really? Is your argument that weak that you have to state the obvious despite it being completely irrelevant? 

how is it irrelevant? if you can get what you want without paying for it, what motivation is there to work at all?

[Slaeowulf]

how is it irrelevant? if you can get what you want without paying for it, what motivation is there to work at all?

 

Like I said in my other comment that you tried to avoid there, that just doesn't happen in America. The point is YOU CAN'T get what you want without working for it. You can get the bare minimum to be able to do things like buy food, clothe your children, etc (things that stop you from dying), but you can't get much beyond that. You might as well have said "There's no motivation for anyone to get a job that pays better because they're already earning money in the job they've got at the moment" (Yes, that really is the same logical application of your statement. Deal with it).

It's a simple motivation: MORE IS BETTER. That you need that pointed out to you shows you've either really not thought this through and just parroted what you heard on Fox yesterday, or you genuinely just don't give a shit about anyone else.

If someone told me that if I paid, let's say, a 50% rate of tax they could guarantee me that no child anywhere in the world would go to bed hungry and they'd all have proper access to even basic health care I would jump at that, because I actually give a damn about people. You are being told that literally tens, even hundreds, of millions of YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS will have access to affordable health care, it will cost you almost nothing, it will save literally tens of thousands of lives every year and ensure that someone isn't put in a position of being made bankrupt because they or someone they loved became ill (by the way, the term "Medical bankruptcy" only exists in America) and you still oppose it because Socialism is somehow still a trigger word in America. Guess what? It works. No system is perfect, but I prefer the one where people don't die because their pay packet isn't big enough.

The problem is you don't have a left-wing in America. You have the Democrats, which are as close to central as you get in America, and the Republicans, which is an extreme right-wing party. Frankly, they are on the same sort of footing as the BNP, Golden Dawn, etc, when it comes to extreme right-wing ideologies. 

[beebskadoo]

that's the "ideal" that obamacare is supposed to be. if I don't have to pay for anything, why should I work?

Clearly your 'argument' is just absolutely hyperbolic and based on stretched truth.

As someone who is unemployed and actively seeking a job I can tell you that it's damn near impossible for MOST people to get any kind of actual government assistance. There are and have been government subsidized programs that help a lot of people and no one has bitched about them for years. But as soon as people soak up the buzzwords and the media spin on programs like national healthcare, people loose their minds. I'm not saying this program is perfect but things need to be done because a lot of people can't afford healthcare. This is a good thing and it's been a long tome coming. 

[beebskadoo]

Like I said in my other comment that you tried to avoid there, that just doesn't happen in America. The point is YOU CAN'T get what you want without working for it. You can get the bare minimum to be able to do things like buy food, clothe your children, etc (things that stop you from dying), but you can't get much beyond that. You might as well have said "There's no motivation for anyone to get a job that pays better because they're already earning money in the job they've got at the moment" (Yes, that really is the same logical application of your statement. Deal with it).

It's a simple motivation: MORE IS BETTER. That you need that pointed out to you shows you've either really not thought this through and just parroted what you heard on Fox yesterday, or you genuinely just don't give a shit about anyone else.

If someone told me that if I paid, let's say, a 50% rate of tax they could guarantee me that no child anywhere in the world would go to bed hungry and they'd all have proper access to even basic health care I would jump at that, because I actually give a damn about people. You are being told that literally tens, even hundreds, of millions of YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS will have access to affordable health care, it will cost you almost nothing, it will save literally tens of thousands of lives every year and ensure that someone isn't put in a position of being made bankrupt because they or someone they loved became ill (by the way, the term "Medical bankruptcy" only exists in America) and you still oppose it because Socialism is somehow still a trigger word in America. Guess what? It works. No system is perfect, but I prefer the one where people don't die because their pay packet isn't big enough.

Yeah, I love how people hear the word 'social' and they flip shit. It's just media buzzwords that keep people in fear. Fearful people are more likely to follow an example rather than make rational decisions and the news media knows this. It's the same with the word 'Islam' it's been demonized in order to push an agenda onto fearful people. The US needs to get its head on straight and get with the fucking times. George Bush is no longer president, you think we would be past this shit by now

[Yoinkerman]

Here in BC we pay health insurance premiums that are more or less the same amount as car insurance.  If you make very little income a part or all of the premium gets subsidized by the government.  Some people have decent jobs where their employers pay for part or all of the premium because healthy happy workers do better work and need less time off.  They also don't quit on a whim.

 

I don't see a downside, it's 2013, first world countries should have affordable healthcare for everyone.

[Slaeowulf]

Yeah, I love how people hear the word 'social' and they flip shit. It's just media buzzwords that keep people in fear. Fearful people are more likely to follow an example rather than make rational decisions and the news media knows this. It's the same with the word 'Islam' it's been demonized in order to push an agenda onto fearful people. The US needs to get its head on straight and get with the fucking times. George Bush is no longer president, you think we would be past this shit by now

 

Very well put, mate. Especially about how fear is used to control populations. There are only 3 ways to make a good person do bad things, religion, fear and force (In that order). 

[mr moose]

Here in BC we pay health insurance premiums that are more or less the same amount as car insurance.  If you make very little income a part or all of the premium gets subsidized by the government.  Some people have decent jobs where their employers pay for part or all of the premium because healthy happy workers do better work and need less time off.  They also don't quit on a whim.

 

I don't see a downside, it's 2013, first world countries should have affordable healthcare for everyone.

 

The only thing I would add is that the health care has to be reasonable and not one large government subsidy to private buisness in the health sectors.

[Slaeowulf]

I don't see a downside, it's 2013, first world countries should have affordable healthcare for everyone.

 

There isn't one. They've just been very effectively brainwashed. If only McCarthyism had never happened the US might have a chance at some form of balance. It's sad that some people there who weren't even alive then are still afraid of the left-wing, and it shows how if you expose a population to propaganda for long enough, they stop seeing the stupid parts less and less and believe it more and more. I showed my parents a Fox News report on the Sandy Hook massacre and they genuinely thought it was some sort of sick parody.