mac commercials Linux Is the New Mac

[Schyken]

Right, so this is just a general inquiry about how the "Why You Should Use Linux" videos appear to their audiences. So, I think we all remember the commercials by Apple for their Mac computers...

Well, lately it seems like many of the new "Why You Should Get Linux" videos are taking the same turn. A turn with many false claims and targeting a less informed or technically inclined audience. That's not a good thing. What do you guys think? Anyone starting to see the similarities? I think it's quite an ironic turn if so.

[vanished]

I didn't know people were making videos about why you should get Linux... it's not something that needs to be or should be pushed on people or advertised.  It's like a Ferrari - everyone knows about it already.  Just let those who actually want it get it; no need to try and convince others because it's not going to help

[Spork829]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I didn't know people were making videos about why you should get Linux... it's not something that needs to be or should be pushed on people or advertised.  It's like a Ferrari - everyone knows about it already.  Just let those who actually want it get it; no need to try and convince others because it's not going to help

And I don't think anyone makes money off you using Linux as far as I know, so that's kind of baffling. Also I've never seen those Mac ads, oh my god

[Schyken]

4 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I didn't know people were making videos about why you should get Linux... it's not something that needs to be or should be pushed on people or advertised.  It's like a Ferrari - everyone knows about it already.  Just let those who actually want it get it; no need to try and convince others because it's not going to help

That's pretty much the mindset we should be in. lately however, I've been seeing more and more people pushing the Linux kernel (or Linux-based operating systems depending on the configuration) in YouTube videos, making claims like "it can't get viruses", when unfortunately, that's not true. Very rare and you have to go out of your way to do it, but it can definitely happen to an inexperienced user I think the thing about these videos that really bothers me, is that many people aren't stressing how important it is to fully understand the implications of its use. And they sell it for more than it is. Well, rather, more than much of the audience can really use as truth. Luke's video was absolutely great in explaining Linux in general, and he made it clear that it's not just for anyone who can clack keys on a keyboard (not EXACTLY what he said but... ) I'm interested to see how much of this community has seen or experienced this direction of content recently

 

4 hours ago, Spork829 said:

And I don't think anyone makes money off you using Linux as far as I know, so that's kind of baffling. Also I've never seen those Mac ads, oh my god

Yeah... 2006-2009 were some great years

[othertomperson]

9 minutes ago, Schyken said:

Right, so this is just a general inquiry about how the "Why You Should Use Linux" videos appear to their audiences. So, I think we all remember the commercials by Apple for their Mac computers...

Well, lately it seems like many of the new "Why You Should Get Linux" videos are taking the same turn. A turn with many false claims and targeting a less informed or technically inclined audience. That's not a good thing. What do you guys think? Anyone starting to see the similarities? I think it's quite an ironic turn if so.

I think that it's false to claim that Linux is in any way advanced or only for power users.

 

Would you claim that for Windows you need to use Power Shell or the Registry? Because that's how people talking about Linux come across. For people doing web browsing or creating word documents, I doubt most would tell the difference.

 

And since all of the common distros have a software centre (which is the basis of Apple, Google and Microsoft's app stores) installing software safely on Linux is now more intuitive and familiar than on any other platform.

[vanished]

3 minutes ago, Schyken said:

That's pretty much the mindset we should be in. lately however, I've been seeing more and more people pushing the Linux kernel (or Linux-based operating systems depending on the configuration) in YouTube videos, making claims like "it can't get viruses", when unfortunately, that's not true. Very rare and you have to go out of your way to do it, but it can definitely happen to an inexperienced user I think the thing about these videos that really bothers me, is that many people aren't stressing how important it is to fully understand the implications of its use. And they sell it for more than it is. Well, rather, more than much of the audience can really use as truth. Luke's video was absolutely great in explaining Linux in general, and he made it clear that it's not just for anyone who can clack keys on a keyboard (not EXACTLY what he said but... ) I'm interested to see how much of this community has seen or experienced this direction of content recently

That whole "it can't get viruses" thing is a classic example of a simplification - an oversimplification in fact - to the point of being incorrect.  Any OS can "get" a virus if the user chooses to install one.  The differentiating factor is how easily one will be picked up just browsing the internet, due to the existence and severity of exploits, etc.

[Schyken]

1 minute ago, othertomperson said:

I think that it's false to claim that Linux is in any way advanced or only for power users.

 

Would you claim that for Windows you need to use Power Shell or the Registry? Because that's how people talking about Linux come across. For people doing web browsing or creating word documents, I doubt most would tell the difference.

 

And since all of the common distros have a software centre (which is the basis of Apple, Google and Microsoft's app stores) installing software safely on Linux is now more intuitive and familiar than on any other platform.

Ah, I see. No, that's not what I meant. I meant that it's not something many people can just go out and replace what their using with. It's just not that easy, and if people make these descisions, it's VERY important that they know that it's NOT the same and they may be stuck with something they can't put to full use.

[Spork829]

2 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

I think that it's false to claim that Linux is in any way advanced or only for power users.

 

Would you claim that for Windows you need to use Power Shell or the Registry? Because that's how people talking about Linux come across. For people doing web browsing or creating word documents, I doubt most would tell the difference.

 

And since all of the common distros have a software centre (which is the basis of Apple, Google and Microsoft's app stores) installing software safely on Linux is now more intuitive and familiar than on any other platform.

All true, but I think the point is that Linux shouldn't really be pushed on people who are comfortable with what they use. And though I haven't seen any of them really do this, if the ads are spreading misinformation that is never a good thing. 

[manikyath]

thing about the "why you should get linux" videos is most of them COMPLETELY miss the point.

 

linux is *NOT* a mainstream OS, see it as buying an electrical device, or buying a kit for the same electrical device.

if you have the knowledge of putting it together yourself, it'll be your perfect fit, if you dont... it can be a disaster.

 

i'm a "part-time penguin" and prefer that side of the fence, but the time spent on figuring things out, and still limited support for several things, make me still use windows for the majority of the time, and not really recommend linux for people that arent into tech that much.

--

actually, there's one place where i would recommend linux: grandma's pc.

 

wether its OSX, windows, or linux doesnt matter to her, nor will she be able to understand any of those, all that matters is that it's simple to use (for her) and that billie (thats you, btw.) can easily come fix it if something goes wrong. since billie (once again, thats you.) will be configuring it for her either way you might as well go for a linux distro you can make pretty minimal, giving her just the buttons she needs, to make things less confusing. and every time she gets the hang of it billie (once again, you.) can add another button for something she needs. kind of turning that learning cliff of using a computer into a series of easily to climb stairs, with a railing.

[Spork829]

2 minutes ago, manikyath said:

ll that matters is that it's simple to use (for her) and that billie (thats you, btw.) can easily come fix it if something goes wrong. since billie (once again, thats you.) will be configuring it for her either way you might as well go for a linux distro you can make pretty minimal, giving her just the buttons she needs, to make things less confusing.

Personally I've been in the position of Billie many times and I've found that Windows works pretty well for my grandma, it's also pretty customizeable in the way of giving her just the buttons she needs.

[othertomperson]

2 minutes ago, Schyken said:

Ah, I see. No, that's not what I meant. I meant that it's not something many people can just go out and replace what their using with. It's just not that easy, and if people make these descisions, it's VERY important that they know that it's NOT the same and they may be stuck with something they can't put to full use.

 

1 minute ago, Spork829 said:

All true, but I think the point is that Linux shouldn't really be pushed on people who are comfortable with what they use. And though I haven't seen any of them really do this, if the ads are spreading misinformation that is never a good thing. 

Having not seen any Linux ads I can't comment on their content. What I will say, though, is that it is much harder to get malware on Linux than on Windows, and there are enough equivalents to general software that that isn't an issue to me.

 

I mean -- are you really talking about a demographic that is going to be affected by a lack of Adobe Suite, or hardcore gamers? I have seen, however, laptops with AMD A8 - A10 APUs sold with Ubuntu that cost the same as a Chromebook (so Celeron, maybe Pentium if you're lucky, and not a full OS either), and they offer a massive amount of value to the average laptop-buying consumer.

[manikyath]

4 hours ago, othertomperson said:

I think that it's false to claim that Linux is in any way advanced or only for power users.

 

Would you claim that for Windows you need to use Power Shell or the Registry? Because that's how people talking about Linux come across. For people doing web browsing or creating word documents, I doubt most would tell the difference.

 

And since all of the common distros have a software centre (which is the basis of Apple, Google and Microsoft's app stores) installing software safely on Linux is now more intuitive and familiar than on any other platform.

the thing is that on linux that terminal is far more deeply integrated, and comes up A LOT faster. i'd actually claim that it's not hard to use, but the issue is that black box with white text is just scary, in the same way as cmd on windows is scary. it is a sandbox where you can do anything, and putting your shovel in the wrong way may destroy everything.

 

and trust me if i tell you, you'll need to use that terminal at least at some point. it just happens.

 

4 hours ago, Spork829 said:

Personally I've been in the position of Billie many times and I've found that Windows works pretty well for my grandma, it's also pretty customizeable in the way of giving her just the buttons she needs.

my grandpa has an issue with computers, its just something he cant get into. but giving him a very toned down "ARCH LINUX OUT OF ALL THINGS" running a kde shell with pretty much nothing but a clock, a button to open the browser, a button for email, and a button for keepass (he isnt very good with passwords, and actually likes keepass) was a very interesting concept for him.

[othertomperson]

3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

the thing is that on linux that terminal is far more deeply integrated, and comes up A LOT faster. i'd actually claim that it's not hard to use, but the issue is that black box with white text is just scary, in the same way as cmd on windows is scary. it is a sandbox where you can do anything, and putting your shovel in the wrong way may destroy everything.

 

and trust me if i tell you, you'll need to use that terminal at least at some point. it just happens.

And if we were having this conversation 20 years ago I'd agree with you. But you don't need to use it. Its GUI is for the most part more intuitive than Windows 10's (though that isn't saying much.) In case you hadn't notice, Windows also has a Command Prompt.

 

I use the Terminal in Linux because it's fast if you know what you're doing. That doesn't mean that you have to use it.

[Spork829]

2 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

 

Having not seen any Linux ads I can't comment on their content. What I will say, though, is that it is much harder to get malware on Linux than on Windows, and there are enough equivalents to general software that that isn't an issue to me.

 

I mean -- are you really talking about a demographic that is going to be affected by a lack of Adobe Suite, or hardcore gamers? I have seen, however, laptops with AMD A8 - A10 APUs sold with Ubuntu that cost the same as a Chromebook (so Celeron, maybe Pentium if you're lucky, and not a full OS either), and they offer a massive amount of value to the average laptop-buying consumer.

That's odd, I guess they just under price the Linux PC's because they know most people would rather have Windows for the same price? It's not like Windows costs $120 a key for OEMs.

[othertomperson]

2 minutes ago, Spork829 said:

That's odd, I guess they just under price the Linux PC's because they know most people would rather have Windows for the same price? It's not like Windows costs $120 a key for OEMs.

Maybe Canonical sponsor it to get Ubuntu out there beyond their usual demographic.

[Spork829]

1 minute ago, othertomperson said:

Maybe Canonical sponsor it to get Ubuntu out there beyond their usual demographic.

Could be

[othertomperson]

1 minute ago, Spork829 said:

Could be

People do like to forget that Linux is free as in speech, not free as in beer.

[Spork829]

2 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

People do like to forget that Linux is free as in speech, not free as in beer.

 I love that

[manikyath]

6 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

But you don't need to use it.

that tells me you havent dabbled very deep into linux, because the moment you run into some kind of issue, it's down to the terminal.

 

@Spork829 and actually, ubuntu tried that whole ubuntu laptop for the masses thing a while back where some laptops were shipping with ubuntu, and it caused articles like these because people are just very, very dumb:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/27nouw/dumbest_news_story_ever_ubuntu_causes_girl_to/

[handymanshandle]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I didn't know people were making videos about why you should get Linux... it's not something that needs to be or should be pushed on people or advertised.  It's like a Ferrari - everyone knows about it already.  Just let those who actually want it get it; no need to try and convince others because it's not going to help

Maybe not everyone knows about Linux, but maybe they do idk. I like it but yeah I agree no need to pushed or advertised. But I do sort of hope that Open Source does start becoming the future of computing. But there's nothing wrong with closed source either.

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, Fooshi said:

 

 

If Linux was for the common man, it wouldn't have so much issues with dependencies being an absolute nightmare to get right. Want to get something working in WIndows, but requires Java? Just download the exe and install it. Want to do the same in Linux? Fucking this. Sure, you could drag and drop into the terminal, but that's already a step way ahead of the average consumer.

 

I have Antegros and Xubuntu dualbooted on my ThinkPad as a way of forcing myself to see why people like it. Every time I find a problem, I see solutions that could take me literally less than a minute to fix in Windows. WIth Linux, you're lucky any of the terminal commands you find are actually pointing towards any active repositories.

 

Anyone who says Linux is user friendly is full of bullshit. Just because it's easy for the doctor give a medical diagnosis, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone else.

actually, that java thing is for oracle's java, the linux world has their own poker club called "openJDK" which is avaliable trough apt-get or the like, or the vareous software stores.

 

and the thing with linux's user friendlyness is very weird. it is not user friendly at all for someone that is inexperienced or has no interest or knowledge into computers, but as your knowledge and skill rises, so does linux's ease of use, to the point where a lot of things become significantly easier to do on linux than on windows, once you really know what you're doing.

--

if it comes down to it, i could fix a completely borked linux install that barely boots into the terminal, let alone a desktop enviroment. but if a windows install is borked, i just DD off the data to a different drive (yup. DD. if you dont know what that is, google is your friend ) and reinstall before putting back important data.

[othertomperson]

11 minutes ago, Fooshi said:

If Linux was for the common man, it wouldn't have so much issues with dependencies being an absolute nightmare to get right. Want to get something working in WIndows, but requires Java? Just download the exe and install it. Want to do the same in Linux? Fucking this. Sure, you could drag and drop into the terminal, but that's already a step way ahead of the average consumer.

Aptitude has been fairly competent at handling its own dependencies for ages. What version of Linux are you even using to come up with this, Fedora Core 6?

 

16 minutes ago, manikyath said:

that tells me you havent dabbled very deep into linux, because the moment you run into some kind of issue, it's down to the terminal.

You could say the same about Windows. Do you know how scary "edit the registry" sounds to the average person? Not very, because they don't know enough about how severely that could go wrong to be as worried as they should be. Or better yet when you find yourself digging around a GUI that still has the old NT 4 style buttons and you realise that this hasn't changed since then and it may as well be written in hieroglyphs.

[manikyath]

3 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

You could say the same about Windows. Do you know how scary "edit the registry" sounds to the average person? Not very, because they don't know enough about how severely that could go wrong to be as worried as they should be. Or better yet when you find yourself digging around a GUI that still has the old NT 4 style buttons and you realise that this hasn't changed since then and it may as well be written in hieroglyphs.

i defenately get your point. the thing just is that you get to "needing to step into the scary basement to fix something" on linux far quicker than on windows.

EDIT: my brain is turning potato, i did a derp.

[othertomperson]

7 minutes ago, manikyath said:

i defenately get your point. the thing just is that you get to "needing to step into the scary basement to fix something" on linux far quicker than on windows.

EDIT: my brain is turning potato, i did a derp.

I think the "problem" with Linux (or the perception of Linux) is that the terminal is genuinely easy and intuitive to use, so a lot of power users just use it as their go-to. I don't see the issue with that. Some people are the same on Windows. A lot of the time, "type sudo thing mc thingface -r" just works too easily for online forums to suggest any alternative, and that's what makes it scary. There almost always is a very simple, intuitive GUI for that exact same thing, but people who use Linux are too used to the Terminal being the quickest way of getting that thing done.

 

I use the Terminal out of convenience. That isn't the same statement as "you need to use the terminal" though.

 

My mum used openSuSE for a long time a few years ago -- until that laptop's GPU broke -- without issue. She's only a couple of rungs above Linus's Granddad technologically. Linux has come a massive distance even since then.

[manikyath]

Just now, othertomperson said:

I think the "problem" with Linux (or the perception of Linux) is that the terminal is genuinely easy and intuitive to use, so a lot of power users just use it as their go-to. I don't see the issue with that. Some people are the same on Windows. A lot of the time, "type sudo thing mc thingface -r" just works too easily for online forums to suggest any alternative, and that's what makes it scary. There almost always is a very simple, intuitive GUI for that exact same thing, but people who use Linux are too used to the Terminal being the quickest way of getting that thing done.

 

I use the Terminal out of convenience. That isn't the same statement as "you need to use the terminal" though.

the issue is that for a lot of things the "sudo thing mc thingface -r" actually is not, or not properly implemented into UI.

 

i've actually encountered A LOT of things where doing a thing trough UI is actually more complicated and scary than just opening the terminal and editing a config file, without even me having any idea if i was even editing the right thing.

 

on top of that, as much as the linuxy folks like to scream drivers got a lot better, i'd be using linux right now if i had propper audio drivers. but unfortunately something is causing them to crap out, and i was unable to use anything but one of the jacks on the back that wasnt even meant to be the headphone out. oh, and did i mention already i was unable to change volume as well? i spent an entire day diving trough the very user friendly looking UI, changing settings that didnt seem to do anything, let alone solve my problems.