Headphones and Dac/Amp for $300

[Mao_Zedong]

Hey guys. So I'm thinking about upgrading my audio setup, and my budget is $300. My current setup is shure se-215s with my onboard audio. I mostly listen to EDM, but it occasionally varies. I want open backed headphones, for all of their numerous advantages, and I'll be using these at home, so leakage isn't an issue. Right now I'm looking at getting AKG K7XX headphones (once they're available again) and a Fiio EK10 as my DAC/Amp. Are there any other good alternatives, or is this basically the best option? Thanks.

[SSL]

That's fine; I wouldn't get carried away and label anything in audio as "the best". The E10K is frankly a waste of money, but if it makes you feel better to get it, go ahead. Normally I would recommend taking the $100 and putting it towards the headphone, but the $100-300 range is mostly homogeneous.

[Mao_Zedong]

4 minutes ago, SSL said:

That's fine; I wouldn't get carried away and label anything in audio as "the best". The E10K is frankly a waste of money, but if it makes you feel better to get it, go ahead. Normally I would recommend taking the $100 and putting it towards the headphone, but the $100-300 range is mostly homogeneous.

Are there any amp/dacs in this price range you would recommend, or is there no advantage over onboard audio at this price?

[SSL]

1 minute ago, Biferony said:

Are there any amp/dacs in this price range you would recommend, or is there no advantage over onboard audio at this price?

 

Very little advantage if you don't have obvious problems with onboard.

[spwath]

3 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

Very little advantage if you don't have obvious problems with onboard.

K7XX may not get loud enough depending on motherboard And person.

 

@op, ifif they are not loud enough, get a Schitt amp, i always mix up the names, so whatever the amp is. 

Else, just save your money.

[STRMfrmXMN]

5 minutes ago, spwath said:

K7XX may not get loud enough depending on motherboard And person.

 

@op, ifif they are not loud enough, get a Schitt amp, i always mix up the names, so whatever the amp is. 

Else, just save your money.

Shit Magni+Modi combo are the popular one

 

24 minutes ago, Biferony said:

Hey guys. So I'm thinking about upgrading my audio setup, and my budget is $300. My current setup is shure se-215s with my onboard audio. I mostly listen to EDM, but it occasionally varies. I want open backed headphones, for all of their numerous advantages, and I'll be using these at home, so leakage isn't an issue. Right now I'm looking at getting AKG K7XX headphones (once they're available again) and a Fiio EK10 as my DAC/Amp. Are there any other good alternatives, or is this basically the best option? Thanks.

The E10k is a mediocre solid state amp. A good solid state, like an ODAC+Objective 2 unit or an Aune X1s (currently saving up to get one of those Aunes myself) are in the area of 300 USD. 

 

Personally I would get lower impedance headphones like the Audio Technica AD700x or Phillips SHP9500 and save up for a better amp and DAC later.

[Mao_Zedong]

8 minutes ago, spwath said:

K7XX may not get loud enough depending on motherboard And person.

 

@op, ifif they are not loud enough, get a Schitt amp, i always mix up the names, so whatever the amp is. 

Else, just save your money.

From my calculations based on the sensitivity of my se215s compared to the K7XX, the se215s should be around 2.6x as loud. I generally listen at around 20%, so I think it would be fine, but I'm not sure. 

 

6 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

Shit Magni+Modi combo are the popular one

 

The E10k is a mediocre solid state amp. A good solid state, like an ODAC+Objective 2 unit or an Aune X1s (currently saving up to get one of those Aunes myself) are in the area of 300 USD. 

I personally can't justify spending that much on a dac. 

8 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

Personally I would get lower impedance headphones like the Audio Technica AD700x or Phillips SHP9500 and save up for a better amp and DAC later.

How much of a difference in quality is there between those and K7XXs when on onboard audio or with a cheap dac/amp?

[STRMfrmXMN]

9 minutes ago, Biferony said:

I personally can't justify spending that much on a dac

That's what they cost if you want both a good amp and DAC. A Schiit Modi is $120 and is a very good DAC but then needs an amp or it can't output any sound. Don't even look at the price of nice tube amps if you don't want a heart attack

 

9 minutes ago, Biferony said:

 

How much of a difference in quality is there between those and K7XXs when on onboard audio or with a cheap dac/amp?

Huge, as a cheap DAC often colors the sound and a cheap amp colors the sound and maybe gets interference and  both don't sound that clean, amp can't power harder to drive headphones, a combo unit for cheap doesn't work out so well.

 

Onboard likely wouldn't be able to power your K7XX properly, volume-wise and would likely bottleneck impact of the extreme highs and lows, instrument separation, soundstage, etc. I would still recommend you get AD700X or Sennheiser HD 558s or something along those lines. 

 

EDIT: Totally forgot, check Amazon for the Micca Origen+ as that has both a decent amp and DAC in it, is intuitive and very good for the money and should be able to power those AKGs no problem.

[Mao_Zedong]

2 minutes ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

That's what they cost if you want both a good amp and DAC. A Schiit Modi is $120 and is a very good DAC but then needs an amp or it can't output any sound. Don't even look at the price of nice tube amps if you don't want a heart attack

 

Huge, as a cheap DAC often colors the sound and a cheap amp colors the sound and maybe gets interference and  both don't sound that clean, amp can't power harder to drive headphones, a combo unit for cheap doesn't work out so well.

 

Onboard likely wouldn't be able to power your K7XX properly, volume-wise and would likely bottleneck impact of the extreme highs and lows, instrument separation, soundstage, etc. I would still recommend you get AD700X or Sennheiser HD 558s or something along those lines. 

In that case, I won't upgrade now. My se215s aren't perfect, but they're good enough for until I can really splurge on my audio setup.

[STRMfrmXMN]

3 minutes ago, Biferony said:

In that case, I won't upgrade now. My se215s aren't perfect, but they're good enough for until I can really splurge on my audio setup.

Sorry, read my edit. I forgot that the Micca Origen exists. Look it up and see if you can accommodate those K7XX in there plus that.

[FloRolf]

Ugh what? 

I can more than comfortably drive my K7XX with my phone or tablet. 

They are not really my favorite headphone at that price though. I'd look more into the 558/598 or DT880/990.

Or with your budget all going towards the headphones (which I'd recommend)  maybe the HD600/650 even. 

[Rodinski]

4 hours ago, Biferony said:

From my calculations based on the sensitivity of my se215s compared to the K7XX, the se215s should be around 2.6x as loud. I generally listen at around 20%, so I think it would be fine, but I'm not sure. 

 

I personally can't justify spending that much on a dac. 

How much of a difference in quality is there between those and K7XXs when on onboard audio or with a cheap dac/amp?

There is a huge difference.  I used to have the Q701s, they sounded poor without a proper source.

[rhyseyness]

4 hours ago, STRMfrmXMN said:

Huge, as a cheap DAC often colors the sound and a cheap amp colors the sound and maybe gets interference and  both don't sound that clean, amp can't power harder to drive headphones, a combo unit for cheap doesn't work out so well.

 

Onboard likely wouldn't be able to power your K7XX properly, volume-wise and would likely bottleneck impact of the extreme highs and lows, instrument separation, soundstage, etc. I would still recommend you get AD700X or Sennheiser HD 558s or something along those lines. 

 

EDIT: Totally forgot, check Amazon for the Micca Origen+ as that has both a decent amp and DAC in it, is intuitive and very good for the money and should be able to power those AKGs no problem.

 

7 minutes ago, Rodinski said:

There is a huge difference.  I used to have the Q701s, they sounded poor without a proper source.

Oh god please stop.

Read this: 

 

[Rodinski]

3 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

 

Oh god please stop.

Read this: 

 

Your article dives in the most basic of things related to DACs and AMPs.  You essentially noted all onboard cards are noise free, with no jitter, and an AMP is for the sole purpose to make the headphones "sound louder".  There is a lot more design that goes into them than you care to put.

[rhyseyness]

1 minute ago, Rodinski said:

Your article dives in the most basic of things related to DACs and AMPs.  You essentially noted all onboard cards are noise free, with no jitter, and an AMP is for the sole purpose to make the headphones "sound louder".  There is a lot more design that goes into them than you care to put.

An amp should just make your sound louder...

That's why it's called an amplifier... It takes an input signal and amplifies it.

If it colours the sound at all, that's usually an undesirable effect (excl. tube amps).

 

Furthermore, 99% of on board audio on a half decent motherboard these days IS transparent.

Any "more" transparency you get from a "better" DAC, isn't going to be audible/isn't worth the money.

 

In the $100-300 price range, the OP is gonna see the most benefit from spending all that on headphones.

$300 headphones with on board will sound better than $100 headphones with $200 worth of DAC/amp.

 

IF his headphones don't get loud enough, he can get an amp.

A DAC is almost definitely unnecessary in this case, UNLESS his on board is actually bad.

This is highly unlikely if his mobo is from the last 10 years and cost more than $50.

[Rodinski]

14 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

An amp should just make your sound louder...

That's why it's called an amplifier... It takes an input signal and amplifies it.

If it colours the sound at all, that's usually an undesirable effect (excl. tube amps).

 

Furthermore, 99% of on board audio on a half decent motherboard these days IS transparent.

Any "more" transparency you get from a "better" DAC, isn't going to be audible/isn't worth the money.

 

In the $100-300 price range, the OP is gonna see the most benefit from spending all that on headphones.

$300 headphones with on board will sound better than $100 headphones with $200 worth of DAC/amp.

 

IF his headphones don't get loud enough, he can get an amp.

A DAC is almost definitely unnecessary in this case, UNLESS his on board is actually bad.

This is highly unlikely if his mobo is from the last 10 years and cost more than $50.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

Might be a good read for you.  I think you know this guy as well.  He makes the O2+DAC.

[Dackzy]

22 minutes ago, Rodinski said:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

Might be a good read for you.  I think you know this guy as well.  He makes the O2+DAC.

the O2 and ODAC is not even that good and how old is that? We have moved a long way with onboard sound.

 

43 minutes ago, Rodinski said:

Your article dives in the most basic of things related to DACs and AMPs.  You essentially noted all onboard cards are noise free, with no jitter, and an AMP is for the sole purpose to make the headphones "sound louder".  There is a lot more design that goes into them than you care to put.

No I am far from saying all onboard have no issues , if you read it properly you will see that I recommend a DAC if there is something wrong with onboard or if it colors it and I also refers to the guide SSL has made for removing noise from onboard. And yes I keep it basic so most people can understand it, most people on this forum will still have a harder time understanding it even though for people who know a lot about audio, it looks really basic and simple. I think you need to take a listen to all the motherboards on the marked, and you will see as long as you don't buy the cheapest one you can find, the onboard solution is 29/30 times really transparent and in my thread I also use a lot of if.

[FloRolf]

41 minutes ago, Rodinski said:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

Might be a good read for you.  I think you know this guy as well.  He makes the O2+DAC.

What gear have you personally used and compared?

I'm sure in a blind test with a decent DAC, and a decent onboard Audio, both hooked up to the same amp, you wouldn't notice a single difference.

If your onboard is not sucky or has static noise or anything then it's just plain Audio. Simple as that.

 

So up to a quite large amount of Money you are better of spending it all on headphones rather than getting meh headphones and a meh amp/dac.

I for example use a o2 Combo mainly because i have 5 pairs of cans i swap regularly and and don't want to climb behind my PC everytime and because i really like 6.35mm plugs.

Sound wise compared to onboard? Not really a big deal, even with 800€ Headphones.

[GlassBomb]

2 minutes ago, FloRolf said:

What gear have you personally used and compared?

I'm sure in a blind test with a decent DAC, and a decent onboard Audio, both hooked up to the same amp, you wouldn't notice a single difference.

If your onboard is not sucky or has static noise or anything then it's just plain Audio. Simple as that.

 

So up to a quite large amount of Money you are better of spending it all on headphones rather than getting meh headphones and a meh amp/dac.

I for example use a o2 Combo mainly because i have 5 pairs of cans i swap regularly and and don't want to climb behind my PC everytime and because i really like 6.35mm plugs.

Sound wise compared to onboard? Not really a big deal, even with 800€ Headphones.

That's pretty much why I am thinking of either wiring up a small extension from my sound card that I have, or get myself a semi-cheap DAC+AMP, since I can really see myself using the external volume control.

 

Though, it's nice that the Xonar STX has 1/4 inch plugs. Really might just get a short extension and fasten it to the side of my desk.

[SSL]

2 hours ago, FloRolf said:

Ugh what? 

I can more than comfortably drive my K7XX with my phone or tablet. 

They are not really my favorite headphone at that price though. I'd look more into the 558/598 or DT880/990.

Or with your budget all going towards the headphones (which I'd recommend)  maybe the HD600/650 even. 

 

I was going to say. I've heard of people driving the even less sensitive K612 from tablets and computers.

 

An amp is by no means going to be necessary here without a doubt - good to keep the possibility open, but I advise against premature purchases.

 

1 hour ago, Rodinski said:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

Might be a good read for you.  I think you know this guy as well.  He makes the O2+DAC.

 

Can you give it a rest? We've been over this dozens of times. Having to explain it again is more sickening, not less.

[FloRolf]

30 minutes ago, GlassBomb said:

That's pretty much why I am thinking of either wiring up a small extension from my sound card that I have, or get myself a semi-cheap DAC+AMP, since I can really see myself using the external volume control.

 

Though, it's nice that the Xonar STX has 1/4 inch plugs. Really might just get a short extension and fasten it to the side of my desk.

Oh yeah i also like it for the volume knob. That's really a cool Thing, i like it a lot more than doing it in Windows.

[Dackzy]

8 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

I was going to say. I've heard of people driving the even less sensitive K612 from tablets and computers.

kek I sometimes use my k612 with my phone  

[rhyseyness]

5 hours ago, Rodinski said:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

Might be a good read for you.  I think you know this guy as well.  He makes the O2+DAC.

I refer you to everyone else who's replied to you, and my original reply.

You appear to have not read what I've actually said, or what the post I linked said for that matter.

I refuse to argue/debate with someone who's not willing to listen to what I have to say.

[STRMfrmXMN]

8 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

 

Oh god please stop.

Read this: 

 

I can tell a drastic difference in the sound quality of my motherboard and of my Encore mDAC. I find it hard to believe that people are arguing that a standalone DAC doesn't sound any better than one from Schiit/SMSL, etc. The DAC in my desktop (Realtek ALC887, I believe) does not color the sound but it can't reach the high highs and low lows of the amp and DAC in my stereo system (the difference is substantial going from plugging my headphones, any of them, in my PC to the receiver with the same audio playing. It's a night and day difference. Sure some onboard audio on high-end motherboards is pretty good but I would argue that getting A standalone DAC/AMP is a good idea if you're spending hundreds on headphones already.

[Rodinski]

9 hours ago, SSL said:

Can you give it a rest? We've been over this dozens of times. Having to explain it again is more sickening, not less.

You have actual results in front of you and you still deny it?  Why?