AMD’s 7th Generation APU specifications leaked – 50% faster than Kaveri

[PlayStation 2]

12 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

APU is the POS Trinity thing that ruins my 13.3 inch notebook with its bloody heat .

welcome to the world of laptops in general

Impressively enough, my laptop actually has a relatively mediocre APU in it (it's actually a Jaguar APU, hooray for the AMD A6-5200!) that's put up with a lot of shit.

And I've seen shit on both sides that run like ass under its cooling. My mom's laptop being an example of a bad AMD APU thrown with mediocre cooling and our old school laptops that had 2 core i5s in them being an example of a bad cooling system with a decent CPU.

[awesomeness10120]

I find it funny that I'm more excited for the socket more than the APU. Who knows, Bristol Ridge could be a nice budget system with up to date features that competes with low end Skylake. 

[shdowhunt60]

I think most of us are more excited to see AM4.

[Curufinwe_wins]

13 hours ago, don_svetlio said:

50% above Kaveri means it's damn close to Haswell i5 levels in terms of MC

IDK if anyone already mentioned this to you, but the graphic specifically states 50% graphics improvement (compared to intel chip as well lol...)

[don_svetlio]

1 minute ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

IDK if anyone already mentioned this to you, but the graphic specifically states 50% graphics improvement (compared to intel chip as well lol...)

oh. That makes sense.... ops

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, don_svetlio said:

oh. That makes sense.... ops

Yea I was super excited too before I saw that...

[LAwLz]

25 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

IDK if anyone already mentioned this to you, but the graphic specifically states 50% graphics improvement (compared to intel chip as well lol...)

The way I read it, there is only an 18% graphics performance improvement.

 

Quote

With an amazing graphics performance uplift of up to 18% and improved system performance over the previous generation, 7th Generation AMD FX processors offer superior gaming performance and features.

Quote

Get up to 50% more graphics performance compared to the comparable Intel product with 7th Generation AMD FX processors.

That's what the slide says.

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

The way I read it, there is only an 18% graphics performance improvement.

 

That's what the slide says.

I know...

 

1 hour ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

IDK if anyone already mentioned this to you, but the graphic specifically states 50% graphics improvement (compared to intel chip as well lol...)

 

[spartaman64]

On 5/22/2016 at 7:47 PM, DarkRuskov said:

they honestly won't win back the market with APUs. Like they said on the wanshow, it feels like AMD is in that kind of spot where they focus on the low end and gave up on the mid to high end which is really unfortunate (and it seems to be slowly becoming the case for gpus too...).

almost all intel processors are apus ...

[DarkRuskov]

19 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

almost all intel processors are apus ...

that's not the point they're not marketed as such (although intel pushes it a bit more with the last couple of generations), they're still primarily good cpus, amd when naming something apu is often putting a mediocre cpu in it.

[spartaman64]

5 minutes ago, DarkRuskov said:

that's not the point they're not marketed as such (although intel pushes it a bit more with the last couple of generations), they're still primarily good cpus, amd when naming something apu is often putting a mediocre cpu in it.

its like nvidia naming their stream processors cuda cores it doesnt make a difference what you call it

[awesomeness10120]

3 minutes ago, DarkRuskov said:

that's not the point they're not marketed as such (although intel pushes it a bit more with the last couple of generations), they're still primarily good cpus, amd when naming something apu is often putting a mediocre cpu in it.

I'd say AMD needs to step up on marketing. Intel I believe had a Super Bowl commercial about Skylake. They need to convince the technologically ill-informed that their product is good. If Zen gets into a Surface or an XPS, it's a slam dunk. 

[DXMember]

they having eDRAM? or finally HBM?

[Trixanity]

2 hours ago, DXMember said:

they having eDRAM? or finally HBM?

Neither I'm certain. At best you'll see it in Raven Ridge. The problem is though that they drive the price up significantly and it can clash with AMD's HSA strategy: eDRAM is relatively small in quantity and expensive to implement but otherwise is great in performance. HBM is also expensive, probably takes up quite a bit of space, has latencies too high to work well in shared scenarios but has otherwise great performance and can achieve decent quantities.

 

Note: by quantities I mean megabytes and gigabytes. 

7 hours ago, DarkRuskov said:

that's not the point they're not marketed as such (although intel pushes it a bit more with the last couple of generations), they're still primarily good cpus, amd when naming something apu is often putting a mediocre cpu in it.

That's because AMD only has mediocre processors right now. They don't have anything better. It's not exactly something they're happy about but you gotta work with what you have. 

11 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

welcome to the world of laptops in general

Impressively enough, my laptop actually has a relatively mediocre APU in it (it's actually a Jaguar APU, hooray for the AMD A6-5200!) that's put up with a lot of shit.

And I've seen shit on both sides that run like ass under its cooling. My mom's laptop being an example of a bad AMD APU thrown with mediocre cooling and our old school laptops that had 2 core i5s in them being an example of a bad cooling system with a decent CPU.

Indeed. A relative has an HP Pavilion (aka substitute grill) with Sandy Bridge. The fans run constantly and it's still hot. Even on idle or light work loads. And it's a 15.6" and not exactly thin and light. 

12 hours ago, Prysin said:

 What will be interesting to see is if 14nm Excavator APUs will downclock the CPU portion to stay within strict TDP rules. Kaveri does this already. However the memory bandwidth for the GPU is such a huge limit for Kaveri that even the four Steamroller cores doesnt bottleneck it at 3GHz.

 

 

Also, side note:

AMD has confirmed in a interview with PcPer? i think it was, that they will be recycling part of CMT. Namely the Cache structure and some other things for ZEN. The Cache is already 40% slower then Intel (comparing AIDA 64 readouts in bandwidth only) from the get go. So this worries me greatly.

I'm 95% sure that there is no such thing as 14nm Excavator. Bristol Ridge is 28nm.

 

As for cache, unless I misunderstand your meaning, it's brand new. At least according to this very recent slide:

Oh and there is a die shot of Summit Ridge there too as you can see. So we're definitely getting closer. 

[Coaxialgamer]

A 50% increase ? In what ? Gpu or cpu performance? This is excavator performance we are talking about. So  the bulk of the improvement will be on the gpu...

[tbake0155]

11 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

almost all intel processors are apus ...

 

No they are not quite the same.  Intel has a graphics chip on the same die as the cpu chip.  In that, intel CPUs and AMD APUs are similar.

 

APU stands for advanced processing unit.  What differentiates it from intel is HSA, heterogenous system architecture.  I posted this earlier in the thread even.  The APU can take advantage of the on-die GPU and use it for compute.

 

The technology does not work that great so far.  I Think it needs more driver support.  But supposedly kaveri has functional HSA technology.

[patrickjp93]

16 hours ago, Prysin said:

Also, side note:

AMD has confirmed in a interview with PcPer? i think it was, that they will be recycling part of CMT. Namely the Cache structure and some other things for ZEN. The Cache is already 40% slower then Intel (comparing AIDA 64 readouts in bandwidth only) from the get go. So this worries me greatly.

What?! The cache structure requiring that a miss at L2 requires "sniffing" the L1 of the other cores is an asinine design choice! It would mean the cache miss penalty is nearly 50% higher than Intel's! Jim Keller is no God, but come on, he ain't this stupid...

[patrickjp93]

26 minutes ago, tbake0155 said:

 

No they are not quite the same.  Intel has a graphics chip on the same die as the cpu chip.  In that, intel CPUs and AMD APUs are similar.

 

APU stands for advanced processing unit.  What differentiates it from intel is HSA, heterogenous system architecture.  I posted this earlier in the thread even.  The APU can take advantage of the on-die GPU and use it for compute.

 

The technology does not work that great so far.  I Think it needs more driver support.  But supposedly kaveri has functional HSA technology.

Accelerated Processing Unit

 

Intel's can too. It's baked into the OpenMP APIs.

 

if(OMP_GFX_OFFLOAD_AVAIL()) {

    #pragma offload target(gfx)

    {

        //same old C++ code here

    }

}

[tbake0155]

7 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Accelerated Processing Unit

 

Intel's can too. It's baked into the OpenMP APIs.

 

if(OMP_GFX_OFFLOAD_AVAIL()) {

    #pragma offload target(gfx)

    {

        //same old C++ code here

    }

}

 

I didn't realize that, thanks for clarifying.  Did AMD pilot the introduction of the technology at least or are they being slightly deceitful in their marketing? 

[Trixanity]

8 minutes ago, tbake0155 said:

 

I didn't realize that, thanks for clarifying.  Did AMD pilot the introduction of the technology at least or are they being slightly deceitful in their marketing? 

The APU term was coined before HSA was a thing. As for supporting HSA etc, I'm guessing AMD is fully compliant with the spec whereas Intel is either partially compliant and/or not certified. AMD was probably one of the first to push for HSA in any case.

[Prysin]

21 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

What?! The cache structure requiring that a miss at L2 requires "sniffing" the L1 of the other cores is an asinine design choice! It would mean the cache miss penalty is nearly 50% higher than Intel's! Jim Keller is no God, but come on, he ain't this stupid...

some official AMD slides from some time ago said they would reuse it. Cannot seem to find it atm, cuz there is like 6 bajillion ZEN slides out by now

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, tbake0155 said:

 

I didn't realize that, thanks for clarifying.  Did AMD pilot the introduction of the technology at least or are they being slightly deceitful in their marketing? 

You could argue either way. HSA is also a hardware-level dynamic scheduling system that can look at a given workload and reschedule it to the GPU for better throughput. Intel was the first with the iGPU, and Intel has been the chief developer of OpenMP since 2000 when it was unveiled. I believe the offload proposal is from 2009, so that's about the same time as AMD started talking about fusion.

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

The APU term was coined before HSA was a thing. As for supporting HSA etc, I'm guessing AMD is fully compliant with the spec whereas Intel is either partially compliant and/or not certified. AMD was probably one of the first to push for HSA in any case.

Pushing for HSA though is not the same as pushing for integrated acceleration as a whole. Intel believes the model is doomed to fail, and so does IBM for that matter. That said, both of them are creating their own solutions (Intel's being the open software standard OpenMP combined with flexible but not specialized hardware such as iGPUs but not a hardware-level workload sniffer and rescheduler which AMD is providing).

[spartaman64]

5 hours ago, tbake0155 said:

 

No they are not quite the same.  Intel has a graphics chip on the same die as the cpu chip.  In that, intel CPUs and AMD APUs are similar.

 

APU stands for advanced processing unit.  What differentiates it from intel is HSA, heterogenous system architecture.  I posted this earlier in the thread even.  The APU can take advantage of the on-die GPU and use it for compute.

 

The technology does not work that great so far.  I Think it needs more driver support.  But supposedly kaveri has functional HSA technology.

even before amd had HSA they called them apus

[Dabombinable]

22 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

welcome to the world of laptops in general

Impressively enough, my laptop actually has a relatively mediocre APU in it (it's actually a Jaguar APU, hooray for the AMD A6-5200!) that's put up with a lot of shit.

And I've seen shit on both sides that run like ass under its cooling. My mom's laptop being an example of a bad AMD APU thrown with mediocre cooling and our old school laptops that had 2 core i5s in them being an example of a bad cooling system with a decent CPU.

I've been in the world of laptops since 2003 as I was able to get more use out of laptops than desktops. None of my laptops with Pentium 4 3.2GHz, Celeron M380, Pentium M, CD T2600, C2D T7600, PhII P920 and N970 ever had any thermal issues. And the times they did overheat (blocked vents, external or dust), they at least thermal throttled-even the Phenom II, and didn't risk series damage to the laptop or injury to me. So far with the APU in this I've found it to have no thermal protection at all like early Athlon chips. The damn thing caused this notebook to get hot enough to burn me as it was running at 107^oC on the GPU (the CPU has a shit sensor, like every other CMT CPU/APU from AMD) and still running at its boost speed of 1.8GHz, with the GPU also not throttling. And that was all with the Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006. Which ran very well on even an Ati Mobility Radeon 9000igp and Pentium 4 3.2GHz. 

BTW I'm not pissed at you but AMD, because the design flaws in their APU really are retarded-especially when the K10 CPU and APU (yes they were the first) lack the same flaws.