Windows 7 gets "Service Pack 2"

[porina]

4 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

Bunch people believing something doesn't make it true.

Bunch of people not believing something doesn't make it untrue either. If it's testable, test it.

[LAwLz]

1 minute ago, Arokhantos said:

Bunch people believing something doesn't make it true.

Are you illiterate? It is demonstrably true. Do you know what that means? It means that it is possible to show evidence in repeatable tests to prove something. An example of this was when GoodBytes tried to argue against me that Bing gets contacted when you do local searches, even with everything related to online searches was turned off. I set up a traffic analyser, filtered out everything that could be misinterpreted as malicious traffic, and then did a few searches. And wouldn't you know it, whenever I made a search a new connection got opened to Bing. 

 

The only one discarding facts in favor of blind belief is you. I have tested (and recorded) evidence for my claims. Isn't that right @GoodBytes? 

[Sintezza]

6 hours ago, Hawx said:

The keylogger does not exist outside of Windows 10 insider, and only activates when you choose to send bug reproduction steps.

Local searches are not collected under Windows 10 if you disable Bing search.

Advertising ID can be disabled in settings and when you install W10.

 

 

 

I think that allready has been discussed an proven allot.

People who realy believe that just flipping a switch, or using a tool like anti beacon to regain their privacy are realy naive.

You have commited to a EULA afterall.

 

But lets not go to far offtopic, since this topic is about Windows7 and the services pack 2 afterall.

 

Also keyloggers doesnt exists outside of Windows10 you said?

 

KB3088195 (Miscorosft Claims it's a security update but also has a key logger on the Kernel Level)

 

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2444042

 

And that is allready an outdated list.

Because the list of fishy updates thats getting backported to windows7 and 8.1 systems is even longer.

And i´m pretty much sure that some (if not most) of those fishy crap updates are also baked into that nice Service Pack 2.

Because why else would MS bring out a pointless service pack?

 

They just try to screw current Windows7 users over.

Or do you deny the fact that Windows10 is getting installed without your permission, if you are not carefull about which updates you install?

 

So yeah good luck with that crap!

[Sintezza]

15 hours ago, wrath said:

Lots of you might hate me for it but i didn't use W7 for more than a few months.

Why? because my pc couldn't handle it(old junk) and by the time I built my new pc i started using w8.1(more hate XD) and then here I am on windows 10 and I just don't want to go back after getting used to this.

Well no hate at all.

People should use whatever OS works best for them.

I´m exaly more annoyed about the endles Windows vs Mac vs Linux debates for that matter.

[Sintezza]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Are you illiterate? It is demonstrably true. Do you know what that means? It means that it is possible to show evidence in repeatable tests to prove something. An example of this was when GoodBytes tried to argue against me that Bing gets contacted when you do local searches, even with everything related to online searches was turned off. I set up a traffic analyser, filtered out everything that could be misinterpreted as malicious traffic, and then did a few searches. And wouldn't you know it, whenever I made a search a new connection got opened to Bing. 

 

The only one discarding facts in favor of blind belief is you. I have tested (and recorded) evidence for my claims. Isn't that right @GoodBytes? 

 

Exactly.

 

it has been tested, analysed and proven by various people allready.

Blocking most of the stuff turned out to be not that effective at all.

Remember that MS contains a gazillion tracking domains,

its pretty much impossible to block all the crap.

Because that would make the whole OS unusable.

[wrath]

6 hours ago, Sintezza said:

Well no hate at all.

People should use whatever OS works best for them.

I´m exaly more annoyed about the endles Windows vs Mac vs Linux debates for that matter.

Thanks

And i feel the same about those debates also.

[jagdtigger]

6 hours ago, Sintezza said:

 

Exactly.

 

it has been tested, analysed and proven by various people allready.

Blocking most of the stuff turned out to be not that effective at all.

Remember that MS contains a gazillion tracking domains,

its pretty much impossible to block all the crap.

Because that would make the whole OS unusable.

And thats why i will use win7 until MS changes its ways or simply switch to linux when support ends for it . BTW here is a little bit newer list of fishy win7 updates:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1587577/windows-7-updates-list-descriptions-windows-7-8-telemetry-preparation

[Enderman]

On 5/18/2016 at 9:54 PM, Delicieuxz said:

The script in my signature, ( https://voat.co/v/technology/comments/853510 ) removes all invasive telemetry and spying updates from Windows 7 and 8. I wonder if it will still work on Windows 7 SP2. If not, I wonder if there will be a similar script to address these types of things in W7 SP2.

its funny that you think disabling telemetry somehow keeps your ISP and the government from tracking everything you do

lol

[porina]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

its funny that you think disabling telemetry somehow keeps your ISP and the government from tracking everything you do

lol

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see that claimed. This thread is about MS.

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, porina said:

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see that claimed. This thread is about MS.

and that guy is paranoid about some telemetry statistics that windows takes while the government is tracking phone calls you make and everything that goes through your internet connection

 

some people really dont understand how the world works...

 

and btw this thread isnt just about MS

its about whatever people post in it fyi

if someone wants to talk about "spying" then let them

[obsidian1200]

On 5/18/2016 at 3:18 PM, NumLock21 said:

Did a test on this, install a clean Win7 w/sp1 OS, then installed this convenience package. This package does not update your IE and I remember the individual updates goes up to like 1.3GB, this package is half the size of that. So not all updates are included?

I found the same to be true, I just did a test with this pack in a VM. After installing the prerequisite update and this new pack, I manually upgraded IE via the Microsoft site. Then I let the Windows update agent do its thing, and through a few reboots, Windows Update showed zero remaining updates after installing ~70 updates.

 

On a similar note, Microsoft added this page to their support site, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3125574 which lists various things not included as well as some known issues with the rollup and how to fix them.

 

Edit: Well the VM just chimed for additional updates, with plenty "security" updates from 2014 and 2015 popping in. I'll update with a final tally after they've all finished.

 

Edit 2: Looks like it finished after doing another round of updates. I'd say about 10, so let's say there's a total of 80 updates after this pack. Still, better than what the total was before this rollup, but not as amazing as I had hoped.

[Hawx]

21 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I wish that was true, but like I showed GoodBytes before when he did not believe me, your computer still contacts Bing every time you do a local search. It does not matter what settings you have enabled/disabled. 

It does it anyway. 

 

Yep, but not any of the other unique IDs they use for tracking purposes can be disabled. Like for example the unique machine ID. 

My understanding was the search function contacts bing just to say "I'm alive!" and keeps itself up to date if you end up turning it back on (that's what a microsoft engineer said anyways)

 

The unique machine ID is used to activate Windows 10 via upgrades, so disabling it probably isn't the best idea.

 

Also keyloggers doesnt exists outside of Windows10 you said?

 

KB3088195 (Miscorosft Claims it's a security update but also has a key logger on the Kernel Level)

The github link to support that claim has been deleted, and a search of that patch finds no other evidence that a keylogger exists.

 

[Delicieuxz]

7 hours ago, Enderman said:

its funny that you think disabling telemetry somehow keeps your ISP and the government from tracking everything you do

lol

5 hours ago, Enderman said:

and that guy is paranoid about some telemetry statistics that windows takes while the government is tracking phone calls you make and everything that goes through your internet connection

 

some people really dont understand how the world works...

 

and btw this thread isnt just about MS

its about whatever people post in it fyi

if someone wants to talk about "spying" then let them

My post actually wasn't at all about that, and neither is my interest in having a telemetry-free OS. But it's plain to see that you don't understand how encryption works, or that governments, including the USA, cannot crack decent encryption:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-prison-for-refusing-to-decrypt-drives/

 

The USA government can't crack bitcoin addresses, HDD encryption, iPhones that use more than a 4-pin code...

 

 You have an over-active, child's fantasy understanding of things. And clearly don't have a regard for basic privacy, which doesn't depend on there being an inability to access things. You come across to me as if you get your impression about hacking from scenes in movies, like the one with the hacker kid's house gets stormed in (I think it's) Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. There's probably a medication to help with that, and with your ability to comprehend what people are talking about in their posts.

[Enderman]

6 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Actually, you don't understand how encryption works, or that governments, including the USA, cannot crack decent encryption:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-prison-for-refusing-to-decrypt-drives/

 

The USA government can't crack bitcoin addresses, HDD encryption, iPhones that use more than a 4-pin code...

 

 You have an over-active, child's fantasy understanding of things. And clearly don't have a regard for basic privacy, which doesn't depend on there being an inability to access things.

i never said they can get into your HDD

but they can get anything that goes through your internet connection

if they want to, but of course they dont care about some random nobody

 

your government and ISP gets way more info than microsoft does, since they track your connection on any device, whether it uses windows or not

 

but hey, if you want to deny it then go ahead

ignorance is bliss

[Delicieuxz]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

i never said they can get into your HDD

but they can get anything that goes through your internet connection

if they want to, but of course they dont care about some random nobody

 

your government and ISP gets way more info than microsoft does, since they track your connection on any device, whether it uses windows or not

 

but hey, if you want to deny it then go ahead

ignorance is bliss

I suggest you read the edits to my above post. You aren't engaging anything I'm talking about in this thread, or that is my perception on the matter of having a telemetry-free OS.

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

I suggest you read the edits to my above post. You aren't engaging anything I'm talking about in this thread, or that is my perception on the matter of having a telemetry-free OS.

nah, you're just overly paranoid

big data is a good thing, its not "spying"

and blocking windows 10 telemetry doesnt do you any good, but if you want to think it does that's your choice

[Delicieuxz]

3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

i never said they can get into your HDD

but they can get anything that goes through your internet connection

I shouldn't do this, but... No, they don't. They collect meta-data. But most data, not stuff like website visits, that is sent through an internet connection, is delivered through programs that supply end-to-end encryption, or is archived with encryption.

 

No one is talking about paranoia, except for you. You are especially paranoid that somebody will read your infantile posts without assuming the sentiments you're trying to project, and so you alone mention paranoia to make sure that people explicitly know the delusions you're posting out of.

[Enderman]

4 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

I shouldn't do this, but... No, they don't. They collect meta-data. But most data, not stuff like website visits, that is sent through an internet connection, is delivered through programs that supply end-to-end encryption, or is archived with encryption.

 

No one is talking about paranoia, except for you. You are especially paranoid that somebody will read your infantile posts without assuming the sentiments you're trying to project, and so you alone mention paranoia to make sure that people explicitly know the delusions you're posting out of.

i dont think you know what you're talking about...

lol

you're the one trying to stop microsoft from knowing how often you open notepad...and calling it "spying"

if thats not paranoia idk what is

you're hilarious

[Delicieuxz]

4 minutes ago, Enderman said:

i dont think you know what you're talking about...

lol

you're the one trying to stop microsoft from knowing how often you open notepad...and calling it "spying"

if thats not paranoia idk what is

you're hilarious

It's called privacy. It kind of sounds like there could be a lot of basic things that ydk what they are.

[Master Disaster]

22 hours ago, LAwLz said:

It's not paranoia if it's true... And it is demonstrably true. Feel free to argue that it doesn't matter if you want, but saying that they aren't doing it is just flat out false. 

Actually it is, Paranoia is simply the act of suspicion, whether your suspicion is true or not is not a factor.

 

Also its been demonstrated as false and blown out of the water multiple times, Microsoft collect no more data on you than Google do, but hey, its cools for Google to know what time you take a shit in the morning just as long as Microsoft don't find it out, right?

[Sintezza]

8 hours ago, Hawx said:

 

The github link to support that claim has been deleted, and a search of that patch finds no other evidence that a keylogger exists.

 

This was not a github source.

 

Also MS is nerving Windows 7 wsus update for more then a year allready.

Hogging 2GB of ram for more then 5 hours a day.

There are ofc KB updates that fixes these issues with high memory and cpu hogging caused by wsus.

But you need to install a new version of the wsus update client, which also includes all the preperation for Windows10 upgrade crap ofc..

[Hawx]

1 hour ago, Sintezza said:

This was not a github source.

What? The page that forum post uses to backup the claim that KB3088195 is a keylogger was on github and has been deleted. There is no other evidence online that points to that patch being a keylogger.

[alicskysareblue]

WHY HAS IT TAKEN MICROSOFT SO LONG TO PUT THIS OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (facedesk)

 

seriously you guys have NO idea how much we in the i.t side have been waiting for this, when I worked at a computer store I had to install windows 7 on maybe 4 computers at one time and it could take up to 3 F*&(ing days to get them installed and then I would have to do it all over again with another batch, with this it would only take a day to do so.

 

 

[LAwLz]

16 hours ago, Hawx said:

My understanding was the search function contacts bing just to say "I'm alive!" and keeps itself up to date if you end up turning it back on (that's what a microsoft engineer said anyways)

That might be true, and it might not. Microsoft refuses to tell us what and why they are collecting, and they have also gone to great lengths to make sure it is as difficult as possible figure it out (ignoring host files, ignoring proxies, not allowing traffic to be sent to localhost, and so on). The "contact Bing just to say I am alive" is a really bullshit excuse though, because they could just do that when you enable it, not every single time you do a search locally on your computer.

If that is the truth, then Microsoft are morons for designing such an inefficient system.

 

16 hours ago, Hawx said:

The unique machine ID is used to activate Windows 10 via upgrades, so disabling it probably isn't the best idea.

Okay... and what about the unique user ID then? Microsoft got lots of different IDs connected to you and your computer, and all of them could potentially be used to track you.

 

 

14 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Actually it is, Paranoia is simply the act of suspicion, whether your suspicion is true or not is not a factor.

 

Also its been demonstrated as false and blown out of the water multiple times, Microsoft collect no more data on you than Google do, but hey, its cools for Google to know what time you take a shit in the morning just as long as Microsoft don't find it out, right?

Wow wow wow hold on there buddy.

1) Suspicion means that you suspect something to be true. If you know something is true then you don't suspect it, you know it. Kind of how you don't "suspect" that 1+1=2. Again, it is a demonstrable fact that Microsoft are collecting quite large amounts of data on all Windows 10 users (and back porting those things and pushing them to Windows 7 and 8 users as well, according to their own patch notes). Therefore, it is not suspicions that they are doing it. It is a fact.

 

2) I want a good citation on every single claim that they are collecting data. I have done my own tests. I know that some have blown it out of proportions because they don't know what things like NTP are, but I have actually done the work to look into it properly. Even your own posts admits that they do collect data by saying "they collect no more than Google". Google collects a ton of data, and it is really scary that you are saying that Microsoft might collect just as much. Saying "these three people got proven wrong, so all 100 other people making similar claims must be wrong too" is not how science and logic works.

 

3) Why do you think I am totally okay with Google collecting a bunch of info about me? I see this argument made all the time and I think it is nothing but a pathetic attempt at going "b-b-but all the cool kids are doing it". If Google was racist, posting messages about how all black people should be executed on the front page, would you be okay with Microsoft doing it too? Just because one company does something wrong does not mean all other companies should get a free pass to do the same thing. The data harvesting is by far the worst thing about Google, and that's why I am actively fighting against Microsoft going down the same path. Pointing out that Google does the same thing just makes me think "yes, and I want Microsoft to be better than Google so that is why I am against it".

 

 

16 hours ago, Enderman said:

i never said they can get into your HDD

but they can get anything that goes through your internet connection

if they want to, but of course they dont care about some random nobody

 

your government and ISP gets way more info than microsoft does, since they track your connection on any device, whether it uses windows or not

 

but hey, if you want to deny it then go ahead

ignorance is bliss

No they can't. You really shouldn't talk about these things without having a fairly good understanding of cryptography.

1) They can't get everything that goes though my Internet connection. For example I am hosting my own VPN at home. Whenever I am at school or some other public place I connect to my home via an encrypted tunnel that only I have the keys for. Nobody except me can see the data being transmitted. At most my ISP (which are actively fighting against spying, even though as far as to report themselves to the police for breaking the law regarding it) can see meta data about it. They can however not see any of the content.

 

2) They do care about "random nobodies". Have you been living under a rock for the last few years? Mass surveillance are targeting pretty much everybody. Hell, an official report from Belgian authorities states that they knew about the planned terrorist attack that happened in Paris all the way back in 2014. The reason why it was not stopped? Because everyone was busy looking though reports and data about other people. There is solid evidence that suggests that governments and other authorities are collecting so much info about people, that they do not have enough resources to actually look though it all, even going as far as to ignore people they know are planning terrorist attacks.

It is because of this we time and time again have terrorist attacks, and then a little while later we get a ton of info about the perpetrators. They are collecting so much that it is actively harming their search for actual terrorists.

Also, remember that document that showed that merely going to the Tor project's website will flag you as suspicious and worth monitoring? One of my college assignments was to research Tor, so now everyone taking the same course will have been flagged as suspicious, because we looked into how it works for research purposes.

 

 

You are also missing one extremely important thing. The government can collect this much info because companies like Microsoft helps them.

Here is an article about how Microsoft gave NSA access to Outlook before the service was even launched (as well as other Microsoft services).

Another interesting fact is that Skype used to be P2P based and offered end-to-end encryption. Microsoft then bought Skype, and that feature seems to have been removed in later versions (and like the Guardian article states, internal documents from the NSA shows that their Skype monitoring capabilities tripled afterwards).

 

Of course the government will have more info than Microsoft when Microsoft have historically willingly handed them all the info they collect on a silver platter.

 

 

but hey, if you want to deny it then go ahead

ignorance is bliss

[othertomperson]

On 18/05/2016 at 6:06 AM, Nexxus said:

20, better go back to DOS and be safe.

 

actually scratch that, better get an an abacus. 

Or you know, basically any non-Windows OS.

 

I will never understand Americans. The mere whisper of the government making it harder for criminals and the mentally ill to get guns, and you guys to ape-shit. However when it is proven that your government is spending unprecedented amounts of money on tracking the communications of every single one of you (and most of us too), and that Microsoft is essentially bugging your personal computers and then sending any and all information requested to your government for the sole purpose of spying on you, you give them your unilateral support.