Jonathan Morrison Taking shots at Linus?

[PaulKolby]

I just watched this video from Jonathan Morrison has anyone noticed this before? I don't know if I'm late to the bandwagon but during this video he explains how u can edit 4K on the Macbook (the one with one port) when Linus couldn't on the Asus ultrabook with an i7 and a 940m. And then at the end he challenges Linus to an editing off. So, I dunno if anyone knew about this but I found it interesting.

 

 

[DarkBlade2117]

Old news

[Mr.Meerkat]

Just now, DarkBlade2117 said:

Old news

in fact almost 4 months old news...

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, PaulKolby said:

I just watched this video from Jonathan Morrison has anyone noticed this before? I don't know if I'm late to the bandwagon but during this video he explains how u can edit 4K on the Macbook (the one with one port) when Linus couldn't on the Asus ultrabook with an i7 and a 940m. And then at the end he challenges Linus to an editing off. So, I dunno if anyone knew about this but I found it interesting.

 

 

The reason Macbooks are good for editing is because of Software/Hardware Management is better. Although its spec is around 06' It still Outperforms those core 2's.

OSX And Final Cut X are making (single video editors, not like LTT or TekSyndicate)people switch.

[SeanAngelo]

where is this challenge follow up anyway?

 

am i missing something?

[Sauron]

Old news, and the clear flaw in his reasoning is that he uses different software for testing.

 

The new macbook is garbage under almost all points of view and buying it for 4k video editing is just silly.

[Guest]

yep you're late

[AyeJayKay]

8 hours ago, josephaltareb said:

The reason Macbooks are good for editing is because of Software/Hardware Management is better. Although its spec is around 06' It still Outperforms those core 2's.

OSX And Final Cut X are making (single video editors, not like LTT or TekSyndicate)people switch.

Apparently that video has gotten MKBHD and HardwareCanucks to switch to Final Cut. It's surprisingly powerful.

[Zodiark1593]

That export time in Final Cut is startlingly fast. Granted, it's certainly not the only factor, but a Macbook Pro in Final Cut besting a 6 core workstation in Premiere. Adobe really needs to get to work here.

[arnavvr]

Please stop. Someone made a thread about how @JayzTwoCents was challenging @LinusTech and it turned into a big flame war and the thread got locked. These guys aren't out to get each other.

[arnavvr]

14 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

That export time in Final Cut is startlingly fast. Granted, it's certainly not the only factor, but a Macbook Pro in Final Cut besting a 6 core workstation in Premiere. Adobe really needs to get to work here.

Problem is, it's not like a couple of devices. They can't optimize for every single PC combination in the world.

[Dabombinable]

My Aunt's laptop is more powerful than the 2015 Macbook...and using GPU acceleration 4K video editing is possible, but SAF. What's the point of editing 4K video if  you can't do it in real time?

[HelplmChoking]

11 hours ago, Sauron said:

Old news, and the clear flaw in his reasoning is that he uses different software for testing.

 

The new macbook is garbage under almost all points of view and buying it for 4k video editing is just silly.

Except it's not.. The optimisation with FCPX are so good, that this tiny ultrabook (almost a tablet) would outperform full desktops (like early 4 core i7's) running Premiere. Its really impressive that a tiny device can do so much. Obviously, at the same cost as the Pro, there's no point getting it, but it's still very impressive. Unlike most cases, you'd need a much more expensive laptop to edit 4k with Windows/Premiere.

[Zodiark1593]

51 minutes ago, arnavvr said:

Problem is, it's not like a couple of devices. They can't optimize for every single PC combination in the world.

My teeth do not thank me for the gnashing I gave them, trying to come up with an answer and some kind of proof or something of the like to back it up. I sincerely have doubts that were Adobe to put a similar amount of effort into their software as Apple, the performance disparity would be so great (a laptop beating a modern workstation, even unoprimized, in a brute-force task I found unsettling). However, I'm not a developer, so my doubts are just that.

 

Edit: There are a couple site I found that mentioned Quicksync may be in use. Would make sense as all Macs have the hardware.

[abazigal]

2 hours ago, arnavvr said:

Problem is, it's not like a couple of devices. They can't optimize for every single PC combination in the world.

So what devices is Adobe Premeire optimised for then? Seems like Adobe is expecting the user to bulk up on specs and brute-force their way through any imperfections in the software. 

[neebuilda]

Everyone seems to forget that TLD made the video to show off the optimization of final cut, and made the point that it will render quickly even on the crappy little macbook. It was not windows vs OSX or mac vs PC. It was Final cut vs premiere.

[LAwLz]

What really bothers me is when ignorant people start throwing around terms like "optimized" without having any understanding of how things work. "It's optimized" is like basically like saying "I don't understand it, so therefore it must be magic" these days.

 

That Macbook uses Intel QuickSync (or some Apple proprietary implementation of it). That's it. There is no "the software has been specially tailored to the specific CPU used in the Mac. It can't be done on the PC because there are so many different processors" magic involved. Adobe's encoder is just crappy and outdated. It should just be replaced entirely with better ones.

Get a video editing software on the PC that uses it and all of a sudden the PC will be just as "optimized" as the Macbook. Hell, there is even a QuickSync plugin for Premier.

 

 

But like I said a few months ago when we had the first thread about this, you can't just look at the speed when comparing CPU vs GPU encoded videos, because the GPU encoded video generally looks far worse than the CPU one. Or maybe Linus could have installed a CUDA-accelerated encoder for Premier. His video would render a lot faster... and look a lot shittier (like Morrison's probably does).

[Sauron]

4 hours ago, Rangaman42 said:

Except it's not.. The optimisation with FCPX are so good, that this tiny ultrabook (almost a tablet) would outperform full desktops (like early 4 core i7's) running Premiere. Its really impressive that a tiny device can do so much. Obviously, at the same cost as the Pro, there's no point getting it, but it's still very impressive. Unlike most cases, you'd need a much more expensive laptop to edit 4k with Windows/Premiere.

Nonsense, final cut pro is not adobe premiere and is not nearly as functional. If it were, nobody would use Premiere given the price of the program. For some things it may come close, but with equal filters and rendering quality the performance is very similar.

 

LMG has high end workstations and a dedicated rendering server, do you think they'd have put all that effort into that sort of setup to run premiere if they could have used low end imacs for the same tasks simply thanks to final cut pro? And sure, they get most of their hardware for free or at a strong discount, but the time and effort they put into it is nothing to scoff at and if they could get the same performance, as you say, on much lower end machines and without the rendering server they'd take that any day.

 

But of course that's not the case. Optimization can't perform magic. Unless one of the two programs is castrated on purpose to run as terribly as possible, the advantage you can get with hardware specific optimization is below 10%. Which is not bad, but it doesn't make a thermal throttling low end underpowered undervolted cpu with insufficient ram and no decent gpu to rely upon to render the heavy effects even remotely COMPARABLE to even a 6 years old, desktop grade core i7, especially if it has any remotely acceptable dedicated graphics card. Or i5 for that matter.

 

What you're saying is tantamount to claiming a raspberry pi is as fast as an ultrabook running windows because it can load vim faster than the ultrabook can load microsoft office.

[abazigal]

1 hour ago, neebuilda said:

Everyone seems to forget that TLD made the video to show off the optimization of final cut, and made the point that it will render quickly even on the crappy little macbook. It was not windows vs OSX or mac vs PC. It was Final cut vs premiere.

I think the point is  - a great-looking video is the ends, who cares how you went about achieving the means. 

 

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Nonsense, final cut pro is not adobe premiere and is not nearly as functional. If it were, nobody would use Premiere given the price of the program. For some things it may come close, but with equal filters and rendering quality the performance is very similar.

I don't disagree with this, but I sometimes do wonder just what the benefits are, and if they are even noticeable. 

 

I know LMS is a pro-Windows team, and their fanbase are largely Windows users. Admittedly, part of the draw is seeing them working with high-end hardware that I can only dream of owning. Specced-out workstations, multiple 4k monitors, expensive furniture, the best audio equipment money can buy, the works. 

 

This makes me wonder - what if one of the LMS employees starts requesting for a Mac? What if some day, there was coverage of him editing his next video on a Macbook, and nothing else. No external display, no fancy standing desk or other peripherals. Just him, his Macbook and the bare essentials. Would there be a revolt amongst his fanbase? 

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, abazigal said:

I don't disagree with this, but I sometimes do wonder just what the benefits are, and if they are even noticeable. 

 

I know LMS is a pro-Windows team, and their fanbase are largely Windows users. Admittedly, part of the draw is seeing them working with high-end hardware that I can only dream of owning. Specced-out workstations, multiple 4k monitors, expensive furniture, the best audio equipment money can buy, the works. 

 

This makes me wonder - what if one of the LMS employees starts requesting for a Mac? What if some day, there was coverage of him editing his next video on a Macbook, and nothing else. No external display, no fancy standing desk or other peripherals. Just him, his Macbook and the bare essentials. Would there be a revolt amongst his fanbase? 

Why would there be a "revolt"? If the videos came out as quickly as usual nobody should care, and I'm sure Linus would accomodate the editor if he became somehow more proficient at his job with a macbook, after all it would be expensive but not as much compared to other things they bought for sillier reasons.

 

But the thing is, one of these guys went out of his way to add a whole separate keyboard to his setup dedicated exclusively to shortcuts. I don't see him ever wanting to use a macbook over what he has now. Besides, once you're in the program having mac os, windows or whatever makes very little difference. They even made a pretty fast hackintosh once but they never considered using it - if mac os was such a draw for them, that would have been a golden opportunity. Besides, a macbook wouldn't come close to the power of what they use at the moment, if anything a mac pro may be something they *might* want, but a macbook would be like entering a nascar with a standard golf.

 

There's also the fact that some of the software they use to integrate with the rendering servers may not work on mac os, so in the end their workflow would not benefit from it in any way.

 

As for them being "windows centric", I see that more as a direct consequence of doing a lot of gaming-focused builds and being gamers themselves. I don't think they'd have a problem running linux if it did what they need it to, but sadly it doesn't support Adobe products and doesn't run a lot of AAA games, plus the gpu drivers are lacking compared to what you get in windows. And mac os doesn't allow them to build what they want (and also shares the game availability problem). Windows is the ONLY choice for them, although they did use a linux based operating system to run their virtualization setups.

[Wardaddy]

On 30/04/2016 at 0:10 AM, PaulKolby said:

-SNIP-

 

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/520814-i-wonder-if-linus-will-accept-the-challenge/#comment-6916977

There has already been a post based on this topic on 5 Jan, so yeah you're kinda late