Province of Quebec (Canada) is considering mandating that all new houses to be equiped with an 240V EV charging station

[GoodBytes]

The province of Quebec, located in Canada (for those who you don't know), is considering mandating that all new homes, including condo's and apartment buildings, be equipped with 240V EV charging station. The province is trying to encourage electric vehicles. Already electricity in Quebec is practically free compared to the rest of the world as it mostly powered by hydro's, and Quebec has many land opportunity for building hydro stations. In addition, the electric company is managed by the province itself. It used to be a crown corporation (that a company that the government fully owns), but now it is only partial. A hint of history: In the old old old days, you had a few electricity provider company in Quebec, but Montreal Light, Heat and Power Company started to monopolize the market, jacking up prices to a point that many could not afford it, and offered horrible service, to a point that in 1944 the company was nationalized by the government, drastically cutting cost and large projects were underway to build hydro damns, and the company was renamed to Hydro-Quebec. So that is why electricity is inexpensive. At least for residence. Businesses pay more. Quebec produces so much electricity that they are selling to other provinces around it, and the U.S, including selling to New York.

 

 

Anywho, back to topic, These new EV station are estimated to cost only around $400 Canadian more for new constructions. Normally, if the house is already built, it would cost around 1500$ to have one. Already the government is offering 1000$ incentives if you install one, dropping the price for current home owners to only 500$ .

 

Quote

The addition of these outlets are expected to increase the cost of new homes -- be they single family residences, condos or duplexes -- but only by about $400. That's a heck of a lot less than installing one after the fact. According to Quebec's electric vehicle information site, putting a 240-volt charging station in an existing home will run you about $1500 on average, depending on the model of charger and installation costs. However, Quebec offers a $1000 subsidy for doing so.

Assuming you drive 20,000km (~12,000 miles) per year, operating the EV station for residence of Quebec, cost only $300 per year Canadian (~$ 237 US), which is nothing.

 

This isn't the first time that the government mandates something like this. In 1970's a number of municipalities, mandated that new homes have a electric outlet for washing machines and dryers .

 

Quebec's Transportation Minister Jacques Daoust told Le Journal de Montreal.

Quote

It wasn't standard in 1975. If you built a house today without an outlet for a dryer, no one would buy it. We're talking about a 30 ampere outlet. It's not the end of the world.

 

Source: http://www.engadget.com/2016/04/22/quebec-contemplates-mandating-home-ev-charging-stations/

 

Should more states and provinces mandate charging stations for new homes? Do you think it will encourage people to switch to electric powered or hybrid cars, especially if they become a bit more affordable? Or the price increase of such vehicle is still a determent for the average middle class person to get.. at least for many more years to come, and not 2-3 years?

 

[Midnitewarrior4]

i think its a good idea, even if you dont currently own an ev eventually they will become more common and it might eventually be a selling point in a home such as already furnished or has appliances....

[suicidalfranco]

electricity almost free? damn, wished i live there when i tried to mine BTC 

[atrash]

next, the developers will entice the home buyers with something like "buy a house,get a Tesla' or something like that. 

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

electricity almost free? damn, wished i live there when i tried to mine BTC 

$0.0571 / kWh here

http://www.hydroquebec.com/residential/customer-space/account-and-billing/understanding-bill/residential-rates/rate-d.html

[GoodBytes]

8 minutes ago, atrash said:

next, the developers will entice the home buyers with something like "buy a house,get a Tesla' or something like that. 

They sometimes already do that.. but a normal car. But it is silly in reality, as the price of the car is in the price of the home... and you get a car which you may or may not like, and would prefer another one. The only winning part, is appliances, as those are usually much cheaper than if you bought them yourself, and usually pretty good ones also. The reason for this, is the mass order the developer does... unless he building 1 house, in a land that you have, or the developer has and plan to sale. As it is only 1 home, there is no saving he can get. Basically, a Massdrop like thing the developer does, but himself for the many homes/condos.

[suicidalfranco]

33 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

$0.0571 / kWh here

http://www.hydroquebec.com/residential/customer-space/account-and-billing/understanding-bill/residential-rates/rate-d.html

0.074€ here and the energy is composed of 51% renewable, 21% gas and 18% coal

[BobbyG2]

I think it would be a good idea for home builders to offer charging stations as an option,  but I don't agree that the government should require it. 

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, BobbyG2 said:

I think it would be a good idea for home builders to offer charging stations as an option,  but I don't agree that the government should require it. 

Why not, given that a house costs upwards of $200,000 (In many places, double or triple this figure), and it only costs the contractor/developer $400 to install the station? That's pocket change for a new house.

[BobbyG2]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Why not, given that a house costs upwards of $200,000 (In many places, double or triple this figure), and it only costs the contractor/developer $400 to install the station? That's pocket change for a new house.

Because government mandates are a form of coercion, and I'm a voluntaryist.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, BobbyG2 said:

Because government mandates are a form of coercion, and I'm a voluntaryist.

Well, government mandate is part of democratic society. Else it would be pure anarchy.

[BobbyG2]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Well, government mandate is part of democratic society. Else it would be pure anarchy.

I'm a libertarian,  borderline anarco-capitalist. I believe the role of government should be limited to protecting the rights of citizens and that's it. I am very much against the idea of Democracy (mob rule).

 

 

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, BobbyG2 said:

I'm a libertarian,  borderline anarco-capitalist. I believe the role of government should be limited to protecting the rights of citizens and that's it. I am very much against the idea of Democracy (mob rule).

 

 

Fair enough - I respect your right to believe in those political ideologies, but I do not share them.

 

Often the government has to step in when the market fails to act.

 

I personally think this is a great idea for Quebec. I think that BC and Ontario should also follow suit, given the comparatively clean/renewable power generation of all three provinces.

 

I do however think Ontario needs to get it's damn act together in terms of Electricity prices. Our power comes predominantly from Nuclear, then next most from Hydro. Both are damn cheap to generate. Why are we paying so much, when Quebec is paying ~$0.05/ kWh?

[BobbyG2]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Fair enough - I respect your right to believe in those political ideologies, but I do not share them.

 

Often the government has to step in when the market fails to act.

 

I personally think this is a great idea for Quebec. I think that BC and Ontario should also follow suit, given the comparatively clean/renewable power generation of all three provinces.

 

I do however think Ontario needs to get it's damn act together in terms of Electricity prices. Our power comes predominantly from Nuclear, then next most from Hydro. Both are damn cheap to generate. Why are we paying so much, when Quebec is paying ~$0.05/ kWh?

It is most likely because their is little to no competition in the energy industry. This means no motivation to innovate or to charge competitive prices. This lack of competition is due to almost total government control over the industry.

[thekeemo]

1 minute ago, BobbyG2 said:

It is most likely because their is little to no competition in the energy industry. This means no motivation to innovate or to charge competitive prices.

They had to nationalize it because the free market allowed a monopoly.

[BobbyG2]

13 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

They had to nationalize it because the free market allowed a monopoly.

And Nationalizing it ensures a monopoly, and that the free market won't be able to work it out or innovate. 

[thekeemo]

2 minutes ago, BobbyG2 said:

And Nationalizing it ensures a monopoly, and that the free market won't be able to work it out or innovate. 

A monopoly whose profit goes back to you through other services doesnt sound like a bad idea and tell me the USSR did not innovate.

[captain cactus]

We as humanity should be starting to look more and more into grid upgrades before we all run out and buy Model 3s and Bolts and whatnots. The current grid setup won't cut it with so many high-draw EVs being plugged in (especially at night when everybody's asleep and all the cars are charging). And then again, at what current? 16A? 32A? 48A? Even higher (Tesla Model S can now have a 72A charger)?

 

It's a step in the right direction though. As long as the tech stays as expensive as it is now getting incentives from the government is an awesome thing. It helps move the tech forward by giving people reasons to buy it and companies reasons to keep investing in making the tech better. 

[BobbyG2]

3 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

A monopoly whose profit goes back to you through other services doesnt sound like a bad idea and tell me the USSR did not innovate.

Those profits could be used to innovate. The USSR fell, the economy collapsed. All communist and socialist economies eventually fail as it doesn't account for human nature. 

[Yog]

Why on earth force people who have no need for it to make this expense? If you're purchasing a car, no matter what type it is, you should account for the other expenses - in this case, the installation of a charger. Does Quebec force all homes to be wheelchair accessible? That's a more valid requirement and even that I think is unwarranted.

[Centurius]

While usually I'm all for free market and limiting government intervention I feel certain developments that stand to really improve the world for everyone are worthy of government aid if the private sector isn't fast enough in picking it up. As such I consider this a very good development and would like to see other countries follow the example.

[BobbyG2]

There are tons of building codes that are meant to be standard of living improvements but are a major hindrance to people who don't want/or to participate in such features.

 

For example,  in the U.S. it is illegal for a house to be built without connection to the power grid, or to be disconnected from the power grid. Any such house would be deemed unlivible and be seized. This means you can't choose to live off the grid providing your own power (through,  for example,  solar panels) or choose to live without power.

 

This is a hindrance to your freedom. There are no "one size fits all" solutions. We are all individuals with our own preferences and should be allowed to make our own choices.

[thekeemo]

1 hour ago, BobbyG2 said:

Those profits could be used to innovate. The USSR fell, the economy collapsed. All communist and socialist economies eventually fail as it doesn't account for human nature. 

Or they could not.

[BobbyG2]

2 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

Or they could not.

You're correct,  but the current implementation ensures that they can't. 

[thekeemo]

Just now, BobbyG2 said:

You're correct,  but the current implementation ensures that they can't. 

Not necessarily.

The money goes back into things like making higher levels of education cheaper.

What people do with that education is innovate.

Just because you wont do anything for no money doesn't mean everyone is like that.