ESD/Anti-Static Protection

[stconquest]

But wheres the proof.  This is what I am asking for. Just saying you know how to discharge yourself doesn't mean anything. All you have said so far is that you haven't had any DOA components.   What about all those DOA's that other people talk about when building/upgrading systems? there is no proof they where actually DOA and weren't killed by static. 

 

Many people have said they don't use straps and haven't had issues, but also many people have had issues. So all this proves is that the figure is low at worse and none existent at best.  To say that straps aren't necessary is erroneous until we have proof.

 

I have proof... my personal experience.

[mr moose]

I have proof... my personal experience.

that's not proof, that anecdotal evidence.  Proof would be something the empirically links static to component damage.

[stconquest]

that's not proof, that anecdotal evidence.  Proof would be something the empirically links static to component damage.

 

How is that not proof?  I have been molesting PC components for almost a decade now without incident.  It may not be enough proof for you, but it is enough proof for me.

 

[soup]

ESD math and a handstrip is making the voltage 0 in both you and the components on the math as long the math is grounded.

 

 

 

Nope!

 

Same voltage, NOT 0 Volts.

[mr moose]

How is that not proof?  I have been molesting PC components for almost a decade now without incident.  It may not be enough proof for you, but it is enough proof for me.

 

 

I have been doing it since the mid 80's, plus I have several electronics qualifications,  I have yet to kill a component whilst wearing a static strap,  Does this equal proof? nope. I have killed ram by not wearing a strap, does this equal proof that not wearing a strap stops static killing ram? nope.  it could have died from anything.  Why do we even have static straps? because theoretically static will kill devices made with CMOS technology.  That's why I ask for proof.  So far their is more evidence to say that static is dangerous, maybe not as bad as some make out, but it's still potentially dangerous. 

 

By all means, keep on building without a strap, you may go your whole life without encountering a DOA product, then again you might encounter another 5 and won't know if wearing a strap might have prevented that.

[stconquest]

I have been doing it since the mid 80's, plus I have several electronics qualifications,  I have yet to kill a component whilst wearing a static strap,  Does this equal proof? nope. I have killed ram by not wearing a strap, does this equal proof that not wearing a strap stops static killing ram? nope.  it could have died from anything.  Why do we even have static straps? because theoretically static will kill devices made with CMOS technology.  That's why I ask for proof.  So far their is more evidence to say that static is dangerous, maybe not as bad as some make out, but it's still potentially dangerous. 

 

By all means, keep on building without a strap, you may go your whole life without encountering a DOA product, then again you might encounter another 5 and won't know if wearing a strap might have prevented that.

 

To be fair, if I did this type of work everyday, I would have measures taken to protect equipment that is NOT mine.

[mr moose]

To be fair, if I did this type of work everyday, I would have measures taken to protect equipment that is NOT mine.

 

Just so we are on the same page, I only worked in the field full time for about 5 years after getting my qualifications (94), I lived in the country and there was more money in plastering/building so I did that for stint and IT on the side, now I haven't worked full time in the IT field (only on the side) since.  But I still do consultation for charities, etc.  I still love it and build computers for everyone, plus help out at work when I can.

[ViruZ_HUN]

Nope!

 

Same voltage, NOT 0 Volts.

right

[sumdumgai]

Doing my first build and am a little nervous about handling all these sensitive components, especially since I'll be working in my carpeted office.  My question is: because I'll be working on the MB first (outside the case) in order to install the CPU, cooler and DIMMs, where do I attach the wrist strap?  Do I just clip it to the MB? It seems to me that it doesn't make sense to clip it to something else.  I need to equalize myself to the MB, right?  Thanks for your help.

[Thebman712]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

clip it to the case or something metal, but not the motherboard

[MrTiC]

https://youtu.be/jQRIzgEVsjI

[sumdumgai]

But the MB won't be in the case, and the case isn't plugged in yet so it won't be grounded.

[rmac52]

Your grounding yourself. So that any charge you build up leaves via the ground and not into the components. If you ground yourself to the mobo you are going to discharge any charge into the mobo and that's what you want to avoid.

[sumdumgai]

Gotcha.  Thanks.

[Avolate]

  You know how you build up a static charge sometimes and you get shocked when you touch something metal.   You were grounded the instant you touched the metal object.   All your charge jumps from you to the ground.

 

 If you had that same static charge and you touched your MB, you could fry it.  

[soup]

 it's still potentially dangerous. 

 

 

As is going to bed (the number of people that die every year in their beds is...).

You honestly cannot go through life worrying about everything that is POTENTIALY dangerous, as everyting(<only slight hyperbole there) is, what you have to do is decide what level of risk is acceptable and just forget about it. For some people that the level of  'acceptable risk' is set higher than frying components with static (if ordinary sensible precautions are observed ) so they choose not to wear one.

[mr moose]

As is going to bed (the number of people that die every year in their beds is...).

You honestly cannot go through life worrying about everything that is POTENTIALY dangerous, as everyting(<only slight hyperbole there) is, what you have to do is decide what level of risk is acceptable and just forget about it. For some people that the level of  'acceptable risk' is set higher than frying components with static (if ordinary sensible precautions are observed ) so they choose not to wear one.

 

Except that we are not talking about unavoidable dangers,  That is the key in all this.  You can avoid the dangers of static by wearing a strap.   It's not realistic to ignore a proven practice using suck logic.  Why not use that logic next time you get in the car, don't put on a seat belt because you might die in your sleep anyway and you can't go through life worrying about everything. 

[soup]

  Why not use that logic next time you get in the car, don't put on a seat belt because you might die in your sleep anyway and you can't go through life worrying about everything. 

You obviously didn't understand the bit about 'acceptable risk '.  To most not wearing a seat belt is above the acceptable risk level so most would wear a belt whilst the likliehood of static zapping your components is below this level for some so some won't bother wearing one.

 

  Personal opinion :-

   If anyone want's to wear a strap, fair enough, I don't, as I feel the strap restricts me and  I feel there is a very low risk of static zapping the components (especially in the really quite humid atmosophere of Scotland).

 

Oh and everything ≠ anything

[MblaZe7run]

I usually go all out with an antistatic mat paired with a wrist-strap on my ankle plugged into the mat. The mat is then grounded to the wall through a socket I rigged up that only has the ground wire running to it. Biggest reason I do this is because it has become mandatory at work, and is now just a force of habit. I ended up getting two mats from RadioShack for about $10 in total.

[BurgerBum]

they're not reqired.

they're worth it. 

 

chance of static killing your components? 

1/500 i'd say. factoring in average climates and what not. 

 

1/500 is still not 0/500.

 

its better to wear one. you dont have to. ive built many without. wearing socks. on carpet. 

while i cant say they all survived (two or three had a cpu die, one killed a motherbaord) 

most made it. 

thats why i say spending 5 bucks on a little thing you tie to your ankle is worth the money. plus i believe you can re-use them. its a >10$ investment that makes that 1/500 chance turn to a 0-1/2000 

 

 

 

 

end of discussion... please... 

[mr moose]

You obviously didn't understand the bit about 'acceptable risk '.  To most not wearing a seat belt is above the acceptable risk level so most would wear a belt whilst the likliehood of static zapping your components is below this level for some so some won't bother wearing one.

 

  Personal opinion :-

   If anyone want's to wear a strap, fair enough, I don't, as I feel the strap restricts me and  I feel there is a very low risk of static zapping the components (especially in the really quite humid atmosophere of Scotland).

 

Oh and everything ≠ anything

 

You're the one that tried to equate the possible damage of not wearing a static strap to dying in the night.

[Mitchell yeah]

Never in my history with computers have I ever needed one. I built a computer while sitting on a carpet floor and I was fine(didn't know better). Never had an issue building anything just save your $5 and avoid rubbing a balloon in your hair while building

[TechnoBacon]

Is it enough to touch the psu sometimes when building or do I need a wrist band?

Hope this is an okay subforum to post it in.

[SonoDanshi]

if you don't get shocks when touching metal items normally then don't stress about it too much. Just touch a radiator or the pc case if you are really concerned about it.

[W-L]

Is it enough to touch the psu sometimes when building or do I need a wrist band?

Hope this is an okay subforum to post it in.

 

For PC components if you don't work on carpet and periodically touch the case of a plugged in but powered off PSU that's grounded, it will be fine for 99% of situations.