Will Austin Evans ever learn? (Hazardous part recommendations)

[Crowes]

6 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

...My point was that someone who has come across his YouTube channel might feel encouraged to overclock due to Austin's frequent mentioning of it and dedicated GPU overclocking guide to 'squeeze more performance out of a graphics card'....

I apologize, I'm mistaken.

 

I was looking at his video as a sole source of information. If you were an avid fan, your evidence adds up. However, I used to like watching Austin's videos, and he usually notes where applicable, and won't where not, in terms of overclocking. I guess it's something you don't take notice unless you actually look for.

 

When I say, "inexperience", I mean that my experience, a long with a lot of people I know, of buying their first gaming computer is one where overclocking is too scary to be in the question. Especially when on limited funds, I see people more desperate for something that works, not that it's so much futureproof for that long or otherwise. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Dark_Fuzzy said:

Say some kid saves for months and finally gets enough to build a pc. Boots up a game and a few minutes later his psu quits and possibly other components.Then not only is he out a psu but if it fried something like the board or gpu he has no way of replacing them.

Now that's the point I was looking for. Though, I did say:

 

57 minutes ago, Crowes said:

He's just showing it's genuinely possible and that the hardware included, comparatively, does work. He says nowhere that you should get the combination. With another $100 or so, you can get a better PSU and then a case separately, and the rig would still be fine.

 

[Aereldor]

10 minutes ago, Dark_Fuzzy said:

Read to the bottom of the review

" Some things about this unit are done as well as anything else I've seen. Then, the marketing guys played the numbers game and decided to call it a 500 watt unit. It's not a 500 watt unit. It just isn't."

And when that psu goes because it couldn't keep up with its own specs it could very likely take components with it.

Say some kid saves for months and finally gets enough to build a pc. Boots up a game and a few minutes later his psu quits and possibly other components.Then not only is he out a psu but if it fried something like the board or gpu he has no way of replacing them.

Exactly. @Crowes- it's more important to adequately inform the inexperienced of said risks than it is to criticize them for being inexperienced in the first place- that doesn't help anyone.

[Aereldor]

2 minutes ago, Crowes said:

I was looking at his video as a sole source of information. If you were an avid fan, your evidence adds up. However, I used to like watching Austin's videos, and he usually notes where applicable, and won't where not, in terms of overclocking. I guess it's something you don't take notice unless you actually look for.

 

When I say, "inexperience", I mean that my experience, a long with a lot of people I know, of buying their first gaming computer is one where overclocking is too scary to be in the question. Especially when on limited funds, I see people more desperate for something that works, not that it's so much futureproof for that long or otherwise. 

I enjoy Austin's other content, namely his videos about consumer electronics and peripherals, and his comparisons, such as the one he did on the Oculus Rift. However, when I first got into PC building and did my initial research, as most do, on YouTube, overclocking was one of the first things I came across- namely through Linus' own 'Value Gaming PC Build Guide', where he builds a system around the Pentium G3258 and even shows the audience how to put a conservative overclock on it. Two of my friends went down that path a few months after, and both of them approached me with questions about overclocking. Another two thought building a PC requires special talent, with which I replied 'Get on YouTube for an hour and that's about it'. They also returned to me with questions about overclocking.

 

Perhaps this is because of the emergence of several value-oriented unlocked CPUs that have become wildly popular with the community, notably the Pentium G3258 and the Athlon x4 860k- the latter of which Austin actually uses in this build. I don't have a lot of affluent friends, so it doesn't provide a reasonable representation of all prospective PC gamers, but definitely those on a budget. These chips just happen to be the most popular budget options, and overclocking them is all the rage. The intricacies and risks associated with it? Not so much.

[Crowes]

16 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Exactly. @Crowes- it's more important to adequately inform the inexperienced of said risks than it is to criticize them for being inexperienced in the first place- that doesn't help anyone.

I never said that being inexperienced was anyone's fault.

 

I'm saying that being inexperienced in a certain area leads you to (a) impaired comprehension on cost-to-quality ratio, so you don't understand that one of those corners being cut may be the PSU (although I heavilly advise it, personally); and (b) that you're not likely to want to delve into fiddling with your brand spanking new hardware before you've earnt the money to replace the components if you fuck up.

 

You're not thinking, "shit, I need another 100W to overclock!" like us more experienced enthusiasts do, nor are you thinking, "shit, £300 wont get me very far." Well, these scenarios match up to my past experiences, anyway.

 

 

---

 

But yes, Austin should make it far more obvious, much like Linus does. Just not mentioning it where not applicable clearly isn't enough because it's something these newcomers need to keep in mind; not mentioning it leaves it open to interpreation.. which could go wrong, again, due to that impaired comprehension.

[Aereldor]

20 minutes ago, Crowes said:

I'm saying that being inexperienced in a certain area leads you to (a) impaired comprehension on cost-to-quality ratio, so you don't understand that one of those corners being cut may be the PSU (although I heavilly advise it, personally); and (b) that you're not likely to want to delve into fiddling with your brand spanking new hardware before you've had it for years and have basically earnt the money to replace the components if you fuck up. You're not thinking, "shit, I need another 100W to overclock!" like us more experienced enthusiasts do, nor are you thinking, "shit, £300 wont get me very far."

 

Well, these scenarios match up to my past experiences. I, however, never said that being inexperienced was anyone's fault.

Well, then I misinterpreted your post, and I apologize where apologies are due.

 

However, going into PC part shopping with $350 on hand doesn't necessarily imply that someone's inexperienced and has no idea that this won't get him a capable, future-proof gaming rig. It could just mean someone doesn't have quite as much money to spend, and perhaps this $350 took him/her a damn long time to scrape together. I was one of those people, and my PC was a $400-to-$450 build even though I knew full well that in a few years, it would have trouble getting the same settings and framerates on triple-A titles. I see you've edited that post, so I won't hold it up- it's just a point I felt was necessary to make. Then again, seeing as my personal experience has a sample size of one, I'm just as likely to be the exception to the rule as I am to be the example of it.

 

The point of the post was that Austin, as someone who is evidently more experienced than the aforementioned neophytes, shouldn't be cutting the same corners someone with an underdeveloped understanding of price-to-performance in a PC build would cut. In fact, he should do his utmost to educate them about which corners not to cut- specifically, the one this thread is about; the power supply. His videos are often the first thing prospective PC builders find when doing their initial research, and overclocking is frequently mentioned in them and is generally regarded by him as a safe practice. While not mentioned in this video, if a viewer were to take the information from two videos and put them together, stuff might just blow up in his/her face.

 

As @Dark_Fuzzy's example illustrates- power supplies with a certain wattage rating and poor quality control might not even hold up to said rating on an individual basis. The 300w TDP of the system seems safe at only 75% of the regular voltage, but it's harder to tell in scenarios like these. There's a reason bundled power supplies have a bad reputation among PC builders- a reputation that, in a lesser degree, even extends to 'value' power supplies from big-name companies- namely, EVGA's KR series and Corsair's CX series. I'm sure you've seen this.

[Aereldor]

@Crowes I'm not certain we've established that this power supply is 'Good enough' either. Low-quality PSUs like this one here blow well below their rated wattage. Then again, Rosweill has actually made decent power supplies like the Lighting and Capstone series.

[AshleyAshes]

I'm not concerned about the PSU, there's lots of cheap PSUs in lots of things and they aren't causing fires.  If someone was importing computer power supplies that caused fires, you'd have a whole uproar, recall and lawsuits over it. 

 

But I don't like how he claims that the machine comes out on par with consoles.  His statement ignores that consoles make much MUCH more efficient use of their hardware due to running MUCH closer to metal, since they don't have a bulky general purpose operating system with TONNES of hardware abstraction to allow for a bajillion possible hardware configurations without creating a massive burden on the developer.  The R7 360 has the same configured GCN1.1 cores as an Xbox One, a bit less than a PlayStation 4, but those machines can run laps around the R7 360 due to how their software works.  You'd need something more akin to an R9 280 to make up the shortcomings that the general purpose operating system introduces.

 

It's not a bad build, for $350 it's a PC and it'll obviously do a LOT of things a game console could never do, like write a novel, do your taxes, run Adobe Creative Cloud or even develop your own games, but for just gaming, it can't compete.

 

There's a reason that the classic Xbox could do things with it's single core 733mhz Celeron processor and Nvidia GeForce 3.5 GPU that an equivalent desktop could never do.

[This_guy1998]

6 hours ago, Aereldor said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($73.88 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-H Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($49.88 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($32.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: A-Data Premier SP550 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($38.99 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 360 2GB Core Edition Video Card  ($94.99 @ NCIX US) 
Case: Rosewill R363-M-BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case w/400W Power Supply  ($54.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $345.71
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-27 17:00 EDT-0400

This is Austin's build, down to the last part. Barring the $10 rebate on the R7 360, this comes to $356 with a sketchy power supply. The following is my build, with identical specs, but with a much better power supply. Rebates nonwithstanding, it's a $7 price difference! It really isn't that much more to fit a damn solid power supply in there, which makes me question his decision. Is it because $363 doesn't quiet round off to as even a number as $350? Well, neither does $356!

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($73.88 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A68M-DG3+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($44.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Memory: Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($26.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: A-Data Premier SP550 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($38.99 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R7 360 2GB NITRO Video Card  ($88.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Rosewill SRM-01 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($21.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green 380W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($38.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $334.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-27 17:17 EDT-0400

Another thing you could is use a $10 case because with some mods it would get you by and then use the $45 and buy a really good PSU. 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Well.... I don't really see prebuilts burning down houses... 

[Castdeath97]

Let's be honest for a second, this isn't something particularity limited to Austin Evans, even others like Linus have done that (anyone remember the budget build he made with Austin?). Heck, some other channels pick the nopes like the TR2 sometimes every once a while, power supplies then to be confusing or not given enough priority even by large youtubers sometimes.

[Castdeath97]

Then again, when looking at budget builds like this you got to keep in mind that the load isn't that high it matters less (he should have gotten the 750Ti though since that would have made it even safer).

[I am an SSD]

11 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I've never looked into his builds but if he really is recommending a PSU that one burned his house down, that's pretty funny in an aweful sad, not really funny sort of way

His house didnt burn down due to a PSU.....It was the fault of some neighbour of his

[I am an SSD]

11 hours ago, Aereldor said:

DISCLAIMER: No disrespect intended- this isn't a hate post; I merely take issue with some of Austin's recommendations.

 

For the past few years, Austin's budget PC build videos have gained massive amounts of popularity on YouTube. However, I have noticed that in his 'Boson' $300-$350 budget builds, he has always used a bundled power supply. Even in the latest one, while the rest of his build is great value, it's also guilty of this.

 

I'm disinclined to believe that Austin is unaware of the risks- after all, he did have his house burned down in a terrible accident.

 

As another possibility, does he simply consider a build this cheap a throwaway that makes the risk of a bundled power supply frying the whole thing justifiable?

 

At any rate, due to the incredible popularity to which his channel has arisen, many first-time builders look to his builds for guidance and pay heed to his recommendations, and are not informed of the risks of a low-quality power supply. Not only he putting himself at risk, but the hundreds of people who will likely build their PC based on his recommendations.

 

I'd like to hear your opinions on this, should you wish to share them. Or am I hopelessly ignorant in that the bundled Rosewill power supplies he's used are actually of reasonable- if not exceptional- quality?

 

Regards,
Aereldor.

if you look at the Borinator build, Linus recommended a case + power supply combo. And just like Austin, he knows his stuff. So it really depends on the manufacturer doesnt it ?And Austin obviously trusts that company..

 

However you are right in terms of the dangers...new time PC builders will think anything will suffice...

 

Personally i dont see the problem with getting a Power supply for just a little bit more...EVGA sells them for pretty cheap and they are not bad.

[WereCat]

While I agree that the PSU is shit I also must say that if you are building $350 PC you dont have much of a choice with components.

 

If I had $350 and I was going to build PC I would get better $60 PSU and live with integrated graphics untill I save for GPU but you need to understand normal consumers want their PC to work IMMEDIATELY and they dont care or dont know better and honestly.. for low power PC like this that PSU is most likely enough. I mean .. I had 400W Mercury PSU (which is known to be the silent assassin) for 6 years in my old PC and it worked fine as the PC was pretty old and low power (it was also bundled with the case).

[Aereldor]

3 hours ago, WereCat said:

While I agree that the PSU is shit I also must say that if you are building $350 PC you dont have much of a choice with components.

 

If I had $350 and I was going to build PC I would get better $60 PSU and live with integrated graphics untill I save for GPU but you need to understand normal consumers want their PC to work IMMEDIATELY and they dont care or dont know better and honestly.. for low power PC like this that PSU is most likely enough. I mean .. I had 400W Mercury PSU (which is known to be the silent assassin) for 6 years in my old PC and it worked fine as the PC was pretty old and low power (it was also bundled with the case).

I understand, but if I was able to include a solid power supply like the Earthwatts Green 380w for just $7 more, as I demonstrated in my previous post, cutting that corner isn't really justifiable on Austin's part. The specs were identical, and I even included a very similar-looking Rosewill case.

 

[Aereldor]

3 hours ago, I am an SSD said:

if you look at the Borinator build, Linus recommended a case + power supply combo. And just like Austin, he knows his stuff. So it really depends on the manufacturer doesnt it ?And Austin obviously trusts that company..

 

However you are right in terms of the dangers...new time PC builders will think anything will suffice...

 

Personally i dont see the problem with getting a Power supply for just a little bit more...EVGA sells them for pretty cheap and they are not bad.

I did raise an eyebrow when I saw the Borinator, but it appears Linus made an exception not just due to the fact that it came from Cooler Master, but that he thought it was a power supply of reasonable quality.

 

EVGA's budget 80+-KR series is still considered low-quality, on the same standard as the Thermaltake TR2 or the Corsair CX series and posing many of the same issues. I'd say you could include a much better power supply. If you look at my previous post, I included a very solid Antec Earthwatts Green 380w for just $7 more. I'm using this handy whitelist created by @STRMfrmXMN as a reference, and it checks out (although one thing to note is that it appears the XFX XT power supplies are the exception to his rule that Any XFX PSU is solid).

[I am an SSD]

Just now, Aereldor said:

I did raise an eyebrow when I saw the Borinator, but it appears Linus made an exception not just due to the fact that it came from Cooler Master, but that he thought it was a power supply of reasonable quality.

 

EVGA's budget 80+-KR series is still considered low-quality, on the same standard as the Thermaltake TR2 or the Corsair CX series and posing many of the same issues. I'd say you could include a much better power supply. If you look at my previous post, I included a very solid Antec Earthwatts Green 380w for just $7 more. I'm using this handy whitelist created by @STRMfrmXMN as a reference, and it checks out (although one thing to note is that it appears the XFX XT power supplies are the exception to his rule that Any XFX PSU is solid).

Thanks for the link to the whitelist, and yes you're right...a little more money and you have a lot more assurance

[KuJoe]

I'm sad to hear that you guys are running out of things to be angry about.  A stock PSU shouldn't upset you this much and if it does, consider your lives blessed or cursed depending on how you look at it.

[Aereldor]

8 hours ago, This_guy1998 said:

Another thing you could is use a $10 case because with some mods it would get you by and then use the $45 and buy a really good PSU. 

And where will you find this $10 case brand new with all of its screws included? To a first-time builder, working with a used case, while not hindering the performance, will make the building experience unnecessarily difficult and cumbersome. Even now, the Rosewill case I picked out isn't the best for cable management, but it'll probably get the job done, and is likely on par with the case Austin recommends, minus the power supply.

 

And from what I know, Antec Earthwatts power supplies are pretty solid.

[Starelementpoke]

5 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

And where will you find this $10 case brand new with all of its screws included? To a first-time builder, working with a used case, while not hindering the performance, will make the building experience unnecessarily difficult and cumbersome. Even now, the Rosewill case I picked out isn't the best for cable management, but it'll probably get the job done, and is likely on par with the case Austin recommends, minus the power supply.

 

And from what I know, Antec Earthwatts power supplies are pretty solid.

Certain ones, not all of them. Although, I do believe the 380 is one of them. (Don´t quote me on that.) I personally enjoy the builds Austin does, and I usually find his part reasoning justifiable.

[Aereldor]

2 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

I'm sad to hear that you guys are running out of things to be angry about.  A stock PSU shouldn't upset you this much and if it does, consider your lives blessed or cursed depending on how you look at it.

Nobody's angry, and from the tone of everyone's posts, every single person who has commented on this thread has been perfectly calm and reasonable, regardless of their stance and opinion.

 

A stock power-supply doesn't upset me in the sense that it has pricked my giant PC Master Race ego (I jest). It's only that there are inherent issues with many bundled power supplies, most notably a lack of adequate quality control. Like I said, a power supply failure can take the rest of your system with it, and it doesn't make much sense to underspend. Furthermore I did prove that it isn't going to set someone back that much more to include a solid Antec Earthwatts Green 380w power supply.

 

What 'upsets' me, if you insist on using that word, is that Austin- a popular YouTuber with 1.3 million subscribers, is endorsing the use of these power supplies rather than higher-quality power supplies for virtually the same cost. His build videos and guides are likely to be seen by many a first-time builder, and misinforms them about the adequacy of a bundled power supply.

In short, please read through the rest of the thread before posting based on an assumption. We're not angry, and it isn't the power supply itself that has 'upset' me (I can't speak on behalf of any others), and lastly, I -no, in this case, it's safe to say, 'we'- aren't just looking for things to be angry at. That isn't how people like to spend their free time.

[Starelementpoke]

8 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

And where will you find this $10 case brand new with all of its screws included? To a first-time builder, working with a used case, while not hindering the performance, will make the building experience unnecessarily difficult and cumbersome. Even now, the Rosewill case I picked out isn't the best for cable management, but it'll probably get the job done, and is likely on par with the case Austin recommends, minus the power supply.

 

And from what I know, Antec Earthwatts power supplies are pretty solid.

Also, heads up. Motherboard you chose in your comparative build doesn´t have usb 3.0

[Aereldor]

4 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

Certain ones, not all of them. Although, I do believe the 380 is one of them. (Don´t quote me on that.) I personally enjoy the builds Austin does, and I usually find his part reasoning justifiable.

Certainly, it was a bit of a generalization on my part, although I do believe it is. Out of curiosity, though, which EarthWatts power supplies are known not to be reliable? Just so I know what to recommend and possibly update the whitelist

 

True, Austin plays it safe enough for his TDP to be well below the 'danger zone' of these bundled power supplies that often can't even handle the numbers they're rated to.

3 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

Also, heads up. Motherboard you chose in your comparative build doesn´t have usb 3.0

RATS- I accidentally picked this as the best answer. Mods- how do I undo this?

[Starelementpoke]

1 minute ago, Aereldor said:

Certainly, it was a bit of a generalization on my part, although I do believe it is. Out of curiosity, though, which EarthWatts power supplies are known not to be reliable? Just so I know what to recommend and possibly update the whitelist

 

True, Austin plays it safe enough for his TDP to be well below the 'danger zone' of these bundled power supplies that often can't even handle the numbers they're rated to.

RATS- I accidentally picked this as the best answer. Mods- how do I undo this?

Just the low rated ones such as the VP series:

 

Although, this list tends to be a generalization of each psu line within a brand, so actual results will vary between wattage's.

[LAwLz]

15 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

PSUs goes through governmental certification. Under normal load and specifications, they wont burn down the house.

I don't know about the government certs, but for 80+ there is a ton of cheating going around. I am also fairly sure there have been instances where companies have done certs with some cables (really short and high quality) and then when they finally start shipping the PSUs they change to low quality and long cables, which reduces efficiency.

There are also issues with tests being done in different environments. A PSU might pass tests done out in the open, with a 20 Celsius ambient temp, but once you put it inside a 40 degree case things might not go as well as during the test.

 

Anyway, even low end PSUs won't burn your house down these days. Worst case scenario it will kill your other component early (by feeding them dirty power) or when the PSU dies. For a 350 dollar build I think it's pretty fair to use a low quality bundled PSU. You should make a note of it though. For more expensive builds you really should get a high quality PSU. It is one of the few component that should last you several upgrade cycles.