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Intel Says "Moore's Law isn't dead"

niofalpha
By niofalpha
in Tech News
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I would argue that technology is making us mentally lazier.

I was thinking that too but 50 years ago we didn't know nearly as much about space as we do now thanks to technology. Most kids know how to use a computer and phone when 20 years ago no kid did. But they did things we don't know how to do. I guess it is all perceptions

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Graphene was 1THz actually (MIT testing).

Why exactly is it taking so long to switch to graphene then? Obviously it is better than silicon.

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Why exactly is it taking so long to switch to graphene then? Obviously it is better than silicon.

First guess. Yields. It might be able to operate at a high switching frequency, but how many can do that right now and remain stable enough for production?

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Good luck with <6nm intel, (and everyone for that matter) the quantum tunnel wall approaches, so they'll either have to find something completely different or the limit will be when quantum tunneling prevents the effectiveness of electrons being used for measurement

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Good luck with <6nm intel, (and everyone for that matter) the quantum tunnel wall approaches, so they'll either have to find something completely different or the limit will be when quantum tunneling prevents the effectiveness of electrons being used for measurement

Intel has already battled with Quantum Tunneling with the last lithography shrink which is 10nm. Delayed to 2017.

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Why exactly is it taking so long to switch to graphene then? Obviously it is better than silicon.

Graphene is still a bit difficult to produce and expensive to do so. It is also difficult to work with.

A few article to get you familiar with it;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene

http://www.graphenea.com/pages/graphene#.Vk51wHarRhE

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/22/material-question

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"They said it was impossible, we said 'we have Moore up our sleeve'" -Intel probably.

That is an awful pun.

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Intel has already battled with Quantum Tunneling with the last lithography shrink.

I'm aware, but once they get to a certain point (I think 5nm) they will be un able to use any standard chip design methods as gate sizes can't be any thinner than 1 nm without quantum tunneling ruining their day, my point is that the end is nigh for moore's law despite what intel says.

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Why exactly is it taking so long to switch to graphene then? Obviously it is better than silicon.

Currently the main problem is the production.

They can make it without a problem in small numbers but for a commercial chip it needs to be automated and mass produced which they can't right now.

There also some health concerns regarding graphene as there are signs that it could be very damaging to humans which needs to be taken care off as well.

http://www.gizmag.com/graphene-bad-for-environment-toxic-for-humans/31851/

 

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my point is that the end is nigh for moore's law despite what intel says.

I agree. Moore's Law cannot continue forever.

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Moore's law was nothing more than a product development guideline that was taken way out of context.

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that would only work to a certain extent though, no?

 

at some point wouldnt it become too easy to overvolt?

well not if you can have finer voltage control, which you can have, if you improve the voltage controller

 

Graphene was 1THz actually (MIT testing).

:o when was that? got a link?

 

I forgot to mention that the lithography of a transistor(10nm, 14nm, etc) is not the diameter of the transistor. It's normally the distance between the source and the drain.

naaah. its just the lenght or width of the drain/source. the whole transistor (what from source to drain means) is in the hundreds

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Why exactly is it taking so long to switch to graphene then? Obviously it is better than silicon.

As mentioned above, don't think there's a mass production method of doing it like you can with photolithography.

 

But it's rather exciting to think that even though we don't have the ability to do it now, the method is just out there waiting to be found and put to use.

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Stack the dies? 4D transistors?

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well not if you can have finer voltage control, which you can have, if you improve the voltage controller

:o when was that? got a link?

naaah. its just the lenght or width of the drain/source. the whole transistor (what from source to drain means) is in the hundreds

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23419782/

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14 nm, 10nm, etc. is the diameter of the transistors. has nothing to do with speed.

 

it can make it so they can use more, but the size wont directly make it faster

Gate length, not diameter...

 

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Thanks, awesome stuff :D

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Why exactly is it taking so long to switch to graphene then? Obviously it is better than silicon.

 

First guess. Yields. It might be able to operate at a high switching frequency, but how many can do that right now and remain stable enough for production?

Because getting pure graphene sheets is next to impossible. Samsung and IBM are working on it.

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It has about a decade left in it, even with carbon nanotubes and graphene. After that it will come down to increasing core sizes, increasing cache sizes, tuning architecture, and stacking chips.

Thats when the FUN begins!!! cant wait, not that im eager to get older lol.

Software will have to catch up at that point, multi-gpu/multi-cpu setups, having awesome scaling on cores and sli/xfire will be a must, i hope the market stagnates at such a point without new materials for a while in order to force innovation and a change of programming style and software.

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Thats when the FUN begins!!! cant wait, not that im eager to get older lol.

Software will have to catch up at that point, multi-gpu/multi-cpu setups, having awesome scaling on cores and sli/xfire will be a must, i hope the market stagnates at such a point without new materials for a while in order to force innovation and a change of programming style and software.

I personally understand why consumer computing is so far behind professional and enterprise, but damn it if Intel and Co. haven't done all they can to help push it along. If anyone's actually failed in this regard, it's AMD. AMD provided hardware that was in some ways revolutionary, but they never pushed the software side, and I think that sunk them on FX more than anything else. Intel made multithreading easy with OpenMP. You'd have to be braindead to fail at it. Nvidia made GPGPU programming fairly easy with CUDA, proprietary as it is. OpenCL just did not and doesn't yet compare. With 2.1 and native C++ being usable in kernel code (including parallel implementations of the Standard Library Algorithms), some of that may change, but the boilerplate is still ugly and cumbersome.

 

If AMD had backed OpenMP and helped developers with it, it would be in a much better place today.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Moore's Law will eventually die. It must. Computers as they function today cannot have transistors that get infinitely small.

 

Well, if we can start stacking them, it should be possible. Moore's law does not define size, nor z axis. Only number of transistors.

Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

CPU: Intel I7 4790K@4.6 with NZXT X31 AIO; MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z97 Maximus VII Ranger; RAM: 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1600 DDR3; GFX: ASUS R9 290 4GB; CASE: Lian Li v700wx; STORAGE: Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD; Samsung 850 500GB SSD; Various old Seagates; PSU: Corsair RM650; MONITOR: 2x 20" Dell IPS; KEYBOARD/MOUSE: Logitech K810/ MX Master; OS: Windows 10 Pro

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Well, if we can start stacking them, it should be possible. Moore's law does not define size, nor z axis. Only number of transistors.

number of transistors/area ;) stacking helps, but its really not feasible for logic ciurcits. those heat up too much

"Unofficially Official" Leading Scientific Research and Development Officer of the Official Star Citizen LTT Conglomerate | Reaper Squad, Idris Captain | 1x Aurora LN


Game developer, AI researcher, Developing the UOLTT mobile apps


G SIX [My Mac Pro G5 CaseMod Thread]

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number of transistors/area ;) stacking helps, but its really not feasible for logic ciurcits. those heat up too much

 

Ah yes it's transistors per inch per year. My bad. As for heat, yeah maybe, but it depends whether new technology can lead away the heat between the layers. HBM for instance has microbump dummys between the layers to dissipate heat. But as things are now we won't get it anytime soon.

Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

CPU: Intel I7 4790K@4.6 with NZXT X31 AIO; MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z97 Maximus VII Ranger; RAM: 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1600 DDR3; GFX: ASUS R9 290 4GB; CASE: Lian Li v700wx; STORAGE: Corsair Force 3 120GB SSD; Samsung 850 500GB SSD; Various old Seagates; PSU: Corsair RM650; MONITOR: 2x 20" Dell IPS; KEYBOARD/MOUSE: Logitech K810/ MX Master; OS: Windows 10 Pro

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