Video game voice actors give the National Board "the green light" to vote strike if needed

[Bouzoo]

I mentioned this before on off topic but here's my main beef: They demands are certifiable ridiculous. It's unreasonable that they want basically a piece of the game profits something most game developers don't even get yet. 

 

My main beef as well. If the game is successful, there are many people that should get bonuses before them.

If the game is crap but it has great voice actors it won't save it, but a great game with horrible voice actors is also not a good experience. With that said, I still think people actually building the game are the true heroes here. 

[The_Strict_Nein]

The main thing I disagree with is revealing the titles of games at auditions.

[Bouzoo]

This is why unions of today are garbage. It's no longer about what it was; making sure employees weren't abused and are treated fairly. Now, it's just a organization to bully companies into paying outrageous wages and provided ridiculous benefits all to keep work going. I wish we'd get rid of Unions entirely.

 

I don't know about situations in other contries, but some here actually serve their purpose. It goes w/o saying that some people in unions have such salaries for just being there that it's ridiculous and they do nothing, but then again, we got salaries cut in my country in every possible sector, and I'm not talking 1 or 2 cuts, some have been cut more than 10 times, like teachers,  which should not be underpaid, so they had a strike for the last 2 weeks (but some things even there were debatable). Many shipyards were about to close with thousands of people losing their jobs so there is that as well, and unions were able to do a few things. Unions are a debatable thing. 

[Misanthrope]

This is why unions of today are garbage. It's no longer about what it was; making sure employees weren't abused and are treated fairly. Now, it's just a organization to bully companies into paying outrageous wages and provided ridiculous benefits all to keep work going. I wish we'd get rid of Unions entirely.

 

This leads into my main second beef: That won't happen and the voice actors will probably end up winning.

 

Here's why: nobody wants unions. Certainly not the companies, but contrary to popular belief most employees definitely do not want unions. Mainly because they loose control over their working conditions, deals, whenever or not they can be hired, etc. 

 

However you also hinted as to why we need unions and this is something that will immediately make you think of video game publishers: Abuse. If a certain industry overall gets too greedy, to corrupt, to misanthropic and sociopathic towards it's employees, they will end up with Unions. Whenever anybody wants them or not it simple becomes necessary.

 

Let me tell you how this could go if Voice Actors strike: initially apparently nothing happens. Some big name voice actors are not to be found on games but that's hardly any large indication of the quality of a game, in fact many certified mega gaming hits have pretty crap voice actors or a pretty tiny amount (Like the 4 voice actors that did fucking all of skyrim 2 male voices and 2 female voices, that's it really check just how often the same voice is repeated over and over and over for all NPCs) 

 

What happens next however actually kinda happened again: Unions never come alone. Other Unions support them (In this case, Hollywood Unions) Which in turn have a lot more political power than you'd think. Suddenly EA, Activision and the whole videogame gang are looking down a congressional hearing and investigation, that of course is allegedly only checking on voice actors but end up opening the pandora's box of fucking bullshit that is their employee practices and well, it's all over from there.

 

So they want this to go away quietly, yet if they do, you can pretty much guarantee soundtrack and sound composers and editors will strike. Writers specially will strike too, eventually they will have to give into everyone's demands because they set up a precedent. So actually they managed to get themselves into an impossible situation by not self regulating and treating employees in general like fucking crap, it was only a matter of time before somebody pointed fingers.

[typographie]

What is bad about these conditions again ?

 

Get a microphone, and spend multiple 4-hour sessions screaming into it. You may have a different tone, if you still manage to have a tone at all.

 

At the moment, a developer doesn't even have to disclose to that a voice actor at the time of signing a contract. I don't really think that's so much to ask.

 

I mentioned this before on off topic but here's my main beef: Their demands are certifiable ridiculous. It's unreasonable that they want basically a piece of the game profits something most game developers don't even get yet.

 

Personally, I think what's ridiculous is that neither get that. Just because developers are under-compensated doesn't mean we should demand equal under-compensation for everyone.

[Misanthrope]

 

Get a microphone, and spend multiple 8-hour sessions screaming into it. You may have a different tone, if you still manage to have a tone at all.

 

At the moment, a developer doesn't even have to disclose to that a voice actor at the time of signing a contract. I don't really think that's so much to ask.

 

 

Personally, I think what's ridiculous is that neither get that. Just because developers are under-compensated doesn't mean we should demand equal under-compensation for everyone.

 

So you really think someone that comes in during the last 2 to 3 weeks to record their voice lines deserves equal compensation to someone that spends 3 to 5 years working on the game code? That's like paying the guy who washes the car at the car dealership the same as the guy who builds the fucking car, designs it, etc. Yeah people probably wouldn't buy a dirty looking car but he's incredibly inconsequential to the end user product. 

[Khvarrioiren]

 

Get a microphone, and spend multiple 8-hour sessions screaming into it.

 

 

The union mandates a maximum of 4 hours of work per day.

[typographie]

So you really think someone that comes in during the last 2 to 3 weeks to record their voice lines deserves equal compensation to someone that spends 3 to 5 years working on the game code? That's like paying the guy who washes the car at the car dealership the same as the guy who builds the fucking car, designs it, etc. Yeah people probably wouldn't buy a dirty looking car but he's incredibly inconsequential to the end user product.

 

I'm not saying voice actors should get something developers do not—what I said was that I think we should demand both get that sort of compensation, instead of this spiteful, "developers get this, so voice actors should get less!" mentality. It's a misrepresentation of the issue to say it is an adversarial situation between the programmer and the voice actor. It is between the publisher and everyone else, including the voice actor.

 

I flat-out reject the premise that highly-skilled voice actors are inconsequential to the final product. I don't even see how you could argue against the performances of Nolan North, Troy Baker, Jennifer Hale, etc. Countless games have been made better by their performances. Clearly the publishers agree, else why would they hire them as often as they do?

The union mandates a maximum of 4 hours of work per day.

 

Fixed in my post, because it doesn't really change my point.

[Misanthrope]

I'm not saying voice actors should get something developers do not—what I said was that I think we should demand both get that sort of compensation, instead of this spiteful, "developers get this, so voice actors should get less!" mentality. It's a misrepresentation of the issue to say it is an adversarial situation between the programmer and the voice actor. It is between the publisher and everyone else, including the voice actor.

 

I flat-out reject the premise that highly-skilled voice actors are inconsequential to the final product. I don't even see how you could argue against the performances of Nolan North, Troy Baker, Jennifer Hale, etc. Countless games have been made better by their performances. Clearly the publishers agree, else why would they hire them as often as they do?

 

Fixed in my post, because it doesn't really change my point.

 

The "mentality" is not in correct. Don't feel like remaking most of my points so I'll copy/paste a previously written post elsewhere: 

 

Nobody asked for top of the line voice acting. It is just part of the smoke and mirrors layer: mediocre games with shitty writing but hopefully the graphics and cool voice will make you forget a little bit?

We need to stop talking about the greatness of voice acting and basically brush away their outrageous demands. I cannot in good conscience support any game that gives residuals to fucking voice actors but not game developers, no matter how many house of the dead straw men you include at the end.

And the reason is simple yet powerful: I can potentially get used to going back to no voice acting, I am surely not going back to text only games. Devs deserve their fucking cut, voice actors? Not so much. Not before all devs and graphic designers get residuals anyway.

What you contribute matters, what voice actors contribute is usually relatively inconsequential and often even unnecessary when it comes to really high quality voice acting and high profile actors hired for it.

[rcarteraz]

I don't know about situations in other contries, but some here actually serve their purpose. It goes w/o saying that some people in unions have such salaries for just being there that it's ridiculous and they do nothing, but then again, we got salaries cut in my country in every possible sector, and I'm not talking 1 or 2 cuts, some have been cut more than 10 times, like teachers,  which should not be underpaid, so they had a strike for the last 2 weeks (but some things even there were debatable). Many shipyards were about to close with thousands of people losing their jobs so there is that as well, and unions were able to do a few things. Unions are a debatable thing. 

 

Unions in the US aren't like that anymore. It's more about how much more we can get otherwise we will strike than actually make sure employees are reasonable taken care of. Also, politics are way too involved in Unions. There's instances where it seems the line blurs as to where one begins and the other ends..

 

This leads into my main second beef: That won't happen and the voice actors will probably end up winning.

 

Here's why: nobody wants unions. Certainly not the companies, but contrary to popular belief most employees definitely do not want unions. Mainly because they loose control over their working conditions, deals, whenever or not they can be hired, etc. 

 

However you also hinted as to why we need unions and this is something that will immediately make you think of video game publishers: Abuse. If a certain industry overall gets too greedy, to corrupt, to misanthropic and sociopathic towards it's employees, they will end up with Unions. Whenever anybody wants them or not it simple becomes necessary.

 

Let me tell you how this could go if Voice Actors strike: initially apparently nothing happens. Some big name voice actors are not to be found on games but that's hardly any large indication of the quality of a game, in fact many certified mega gaming hits have pretty crap voice actors or a pretty tiny amount (Like the 4 voice actors that did fucking all of skyrim 2 male voices and 2 female voices, that's it really check just how often the same voice is repeated over and over and over for all NPCs) 

 

What happens next however actually kinda happened again: Unions never come alone. Other Unions support them (In this case, Hollywood Unions) Which in turn have a lot more political power than you'd think. Suddenly EA, Activision and the whole videogame gang are looking down a congressional hearing and investigation, that of course is allegedly only checking on voice actors but end up opening the pandora's box of fucking bullshit that is their employee practices and well, it's all over from there.

 

So they want this to go away quietly, yet if they do, you can pretty much guarantee soundtrack and sound composers and editors will strike. Writers specially will strike too, eventually they will have to give into everyone's demands because they set up a precedent. So actually they managed to get themselves into an impossible situation by not self regulating and treating employees in general like fucking crap, it was only a matter of time before somebody pointed fingers.

 

If Unions worked how they used to and only concerned themselves with making sure employees are reasonably taken care versus demanding and requiring absurd compensation and/or benefits then it wouldn't be so much as an issue. That's not how it works anymore though.

[DigitalHermit]

...

 

How competitive is the voice acting market in the US for them to have time to organize a strike?

[Yog]

I don't know where you got this preconception from that actors are just a product and least important component in a project. Have you ever seen a successful game or movie without good actors in them? Compare a game to a fully animated movie, the actors are what makes the movie great, not the pretty animations, or the cool CGI. It is the same with games, it's all about dialogue, emotions conveyed, and stories. Graphics are much less important than a deep story and emotionally invested characters

 

I completely disagree. Great games have been coming out for decades without any voice acting at all. Some of the best games of this year have no voice acting and most of the ones that do aren't nearly the most important aspect of the game. Emotional connections don't need voice, and a "deep story"...is the writer's job...not sure what you're going with there. Voice acting is great, it gives value to a game, but there are a dozen other aspects of a game that are much more important.

 

It's important to pay people what they're worth...which means you don't overpay them as well, because when someone is overpaid, it means someone else is underpaid. Do you really think programmers deserve to be paid less than the voice actors?

[typographie]

Don't feel like remaking most of my points so I'll copy/paste a previously written post elsewhere:

Did you bother copy/pasting this because you assume that if I had just read more I'd suddenly agree with you?

 

Your opinions are your own.

[Misanthrope]

...

 

How competitive is the voice acting market in the US for them to have time to organize a strike?

I answered this: They're advised and probably controlled or even hijacked by Hollywood Unions, those do have the time, experience, resources and connections to organize a strike.

 

The Screen Actors Guild - American Federation of Television and Radio Artists has announced the results of a vote to strike, with 96.52% of members voting in favour of the Interactive Media Agreement Strike Authorization Referendum. This grants the National Board the authority to declare a strike if necessary

[Misanthrope]

Did you bother copy/pasting this because you assume that if I had just read more I'd suddenly agree with you?

 

Your opinions are your own.

 

No it's a simple matter of the ideas being organized and points made instead of me retyping them. Believe it or not I actually do put some thought into what I write....well mostly.

[CommandMan7]

Past the vocaloid comment,

Unions were created to make sure that people working in heavy industry didn't have to worry about being crushed in the machinery they were operating while being paid barely enough to feed themselves, much less a family. Situations where these dangers exist still need unions, limited and safety oriented unions.

On the other hand, my mom works from home doing office work and is part of a union. I have no clue how a union benefits anyone in that situation. These unions are just there to handle compensation and benefits, something that should be determined by both the employee and employer mutually, on a per-individual basis. Unions are there to prevent dangerous conditions and unlivable wages, not to slowly push wages towards company unprofitibility and manage benefits.

[mattebad]

And yet we have vocalists on world tours doing way more strenuous work and very rarely having any issues with that.

Rarely any issues that you hear of, and the majority of vocalists that do worldwide tours have vocal coaches and private doctors they can go if they do ever hurt their voices. They also stay within their established range for their voice so they are never actually uncomfortable when they sing. And a world tour can go on for a month the longest where they spend 3-4 hours at a concert singing, while usually having breaks in between for other performers. You can't compare a celebrity who makes millions a year and is able to afford the top doctors in the world to regular people who live off their job and can't afford to hurt their voice due to the lack of money buffer they have.

[dalekphalm]

I completely disagree. Great games have been coming out for decades without any voice acting at all. Some of the best games of this year have no voice acting and most of the ones that do aren't nearly the most important aspect of the game. Emotional connections don't need voice, and a "deep story"...is the writer's job...not sure what you're going with there. Voice acting is great, it gives value to a game, but there are a dozen other aspects of a game that are much more important.

 

It's important to pay people what they're worth...which means you don't overpay them as well, because when someone is overpaid, it means someone else is underpaid. Do you really think programmers deserve to be paid less than the voice actors?

Yet you didn't answer his question. You didn't name a single game at all in your post about "how many great games there are".

 

If there are so many, please list all of the amazing games this year that had no voice acting in them.

 

Now, how many of those were financially successful also?

 

No, voice acting is not required for a good game - especially a good indie game.

 

But voice acting is required for a AAA game, because of the narrative style. I can do without voice acting in FTL (Although that would be cool), but no voice acting in Mass Effect Andromeda? Or Deus Ex Mankind Divided? You fucking insane?

 

The voice acting is one of the best parts of Deus Ex Human Revolution - same with the Mass Effect series too. Not just the lead actor, but all the voice acting is superb in those games.

 

Frankly, people are losing their shit over nothing, in my opinion. Yes, devs don't make enough. No, that's not an excuse to also deny Voice Actors proper compensation.

 

If you think devs are underpaid, don't condemn another group that is also underpaid. Instead, why don't the devs get organized and work on their own underpaid working conditions?

[SpaceNugget]

I don't know where you got this preconception from that actors are just a product and least important component in a project. Have you ever seen a successful game or movie without good actors in them? Compare a game to a fully animated movie, the actors are what makes the movie great, not the pretty animations, or the cool CGI. It is the same with games, it's all about dialogue, emotions conveyed, and stories. Graphics are much less important than a deep story and emotionally invested characters

Journey, Oot, hl2, (insert most good games here)

 

games are completely different from movies.

[Bouzoo]

Frankly, people are losing their shit over nothing, in my opinion. Yes, devs don't make enough. No, that's not an excuse to also deny Voice Actors proper compensation.

 

If you think devs are underpaid, don't condemn another group that is also underpaid. Instead, why don't the devs get organized and work on their own underpaid working conditions?

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I said that devs (and many others) should be compensated before voice actors and I still said behind that, but I never said I'd deny the voice actors the money they deserve. I think there is always a middle ground on which most people can be happy, it's just that getting there is hard.

[Khvarrioiren]

Rarely any issues that you hear of, and the majority of vocalists that do worldwide tours have vocal coaches and private doctors they can go if they do ever hurt their voices. They also stay within their established range for their voice so they are never actually uncomfortable when they sing. And a world tour can go on for a month the longest where they spend 3-4 hours at a concert singing, while usually having breaks in between for other performers. You can't compare a celebrity who makes millions a year and is able to afford the top doctors in the world to regular people who live off their job and can't afford to hurt their voice due to the lack of money buffer they have.

 

Not every lead singer is the lead for Metallica. A true far off statement, seeing that not even a fraction of the bands doing world tours are making millions.

Which still doesn't undo the fact that unionized VA's make a minimum of 627 USD for 4 hours of work.

This is a generalization on the level of your statement; Chief Kief for example entered the Jack Bauer state of mind and phoned in 30-somewhat lines for ~500,000 USD.

[Suika]

So who else is excited for $100 triple A titles with micro transactions that allow you play the game more than a half hour a day? Because expensive voice actors, as well as a certainty that developers will also want to unionize, will push far more expensive games or the triple A industry down.

[DigitalHermit]

I answered this: They're advised and probably controlled or even hijacked by Hollywood Unions, those do have the time, experience, resources and connections to organize a strike.

 

 

I meant the ratio of the number of jobs in proportion to the number of available actors...

 

afaik most voice acting jobs are mostly on a per-project basis and not permanent positions...

[Misanthrope]

I meant the ratio of the number of jobs in proportion to the number of available actors...

 

afaik most voice acting jobs are mostly on a per-project basis and not permanent positions...

 

Also something I addressed: nobody asked for professional, high quality voice actors. It's a nice extra but not at the cost of this kind of unfair union deals. More over, unionized voice actors means that people like small indie devs that usually just record the voice dialog themselves wouldn't be able to due to Union regulations, so it will effectively mean a lot of games would need to opt out of expensive voice acting.

[DigitalHermit]

Also something I addressed: nobody asked for professional, high quality voice actors. It's a nice extra but not at the cost of this kind of unfair union deals. More over, unionized voice actors means that people like small indie devs that usually just record the voice dialog themselves wouldn't be able to due to Union regulations, so it will effectively mean a lot of games would need to opt out of expensive voice acting.

thanks for clarifying...

conspiracy theory time:

This is just a huge plot by hollywood to kill off the video game industry...