Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Crunchy Dragon]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

TBH I've gotten so proficient with a handgun and even a large format handgun, that I wouldn't mind a somewhat kludgey looking 300blko 8" bullpup pistol without a stock, to be used as a handgun for home defense  Its partly why I've liked 5.7x28mm so much.

 

Either way, you're dropping multiple rounds into them, and with a handgun, shot placement matters whether its 9mm or 5.7x28mm, so why not min-max effectiveness on 2 legged predators in that scenario, especially when its ballistic performance in a full sized handgun isn't much different?

I wouldn't ever carry 5.7x28mm concealed, since any handgun that's reasonably concealable (I also have a Hellcat I finally moved to after a year of practice off my previous multi-year carry, just so I could get red dot options and weaponlight capabilities). 5.7x28mm in this case would be practically worthless out of the 2" barrel necessary for it to fit in that form factor compared to 9mm.

 

Regarding a home defense rifle, the Hellion is interesting, but it's not nearly as 'compact' or convenient than something like the MDR. The big reason being its length of pull, which for an average height or lower person, isn't conducive in comparison. Its minimum supposedly being 16" LOP, compared to the MDRx's probable ~14" with spacers.

 

Just something to consider, then if the NFA gets repealed, you can simply get the 11" barrel with a whisper pickle for it  

Yeah, shot placement is the main thing I need to get better at with my Hellcat. I'm better with it than any other pistol I've shot, but I haven't put in enough rounds to feel confident carrying yet(plus I have some other criteria to meet first). Once I have a holster and a belt, I can start doing some more drills and have some more variation in my training. Smallest gun you can shoot well, and all that.

 

I haven't properly measured LOP, but I'd guess my body likes 14-16" anyway so it might be a moot point with regards to comparing the Hellion and MDRX in that case. I'll probably have to handle both of them in some capacity before I decide which one I actually want.

 

There's always hope of the NFA getting repealed, but I'd rather not set my hopes on it and use "but the NFA could get repealed!" as my excuse for not having as good of a defensive setup as I possibly can, you know?

If it does, great, I'll probably take advantage of it, but I'm not prepared to wait around for it to happen before taking some action.

[Agall]

15 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

There's always hope of the NFA getting repealed, but I'd rather not set my hopes on it and use "but the NFA could get repealed!"

 

[Real_PhillBert]

15 hours ago, Agall said:

so I could get red dot options and weapon light capabilities

[Agall]

15 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

However, my EDC doesn't rock a red dot right now  I run a Hellcat with the Surefire XSC.

 

I tried a couple of red dots on the gun but ended up going back to irons. Within 25 yards, I'm more than capable of 'point shooting' on draw+presentation, but I'll explore more options in the future. I refuse to carry an open emitter red dot again with all the problems that lint on the lens can incur. 

[Real_PhillBert]

2 hours ago, Agall said:

However, my EDC doesn't rock a red dot right now  I run a Hellcat with the Surefire XSC.

 

I tried a couple of red dots on the gun but ended up going back to irons. Within 25 yards, I'm more than capable of 'point shooting' on draw+presentation, but I'll explore more options in the future. I refuse to carry an open emitter red dot again with all the problems that lint on the lens can incur. 

Again? Have you carried one before?

 

I've carried my G19.4 W/RMR every day for the last ~12 Years, and competed with Glocks and 2011s with RMRs for ~10 years without a single issue caused by the open emitter design. I personally believe that 99.9999% of the complaints about open emitter optics on pistols are internet lore that isn't based in reality. Can something happen, sure but virtually 100% of the time it's the same remedial action than something blocking your iron sights or closed emitter optic; shake/brush it off.

 

 

I am probably an outlier, but I've actually had more failures of pistol iron sights than pistol mounted optics. 

[Agall]

27 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Again? Have you carried one before?

 

I've carried my G19.4 W/RMR every day for the last ~12 Years, and competed with Glocks and 2011s with RMRs for ~10 years without a single issue caused by the open emitter design. I personally believe that 99.9999% of the complaints about open emitter optics on pistols are internet lore that isn't based in reality. Can something happen, sure but virtually 100% of the time it's the same remedial action than something blocking your iron sights or closed emitter optic; shake/brush it off.

 

 

 

I am probably an outlier, but I've actually had more failures of pistol iron sights than pistol mounted optics. 

I've had a first run G19 gen5 that's had an RMR cut on it since 2018 which I concealed carried for a while years back which was also my first forte. I had the same experience with the type 2 RMR that was on that firearm that I've had with other open emitter type red dots, including other RMRs, where it doesn't take much to absolutely annihilate the clarity of the dot for me. What doesn't help is without glasses, (which its quite frequent) dots are 5x the size and asymmetrical. 

 

The combination of my eyesight and having lint on the lens/emitter lens compounds to just make it not worth it for CCW right now. I have a red dot on almost every other pistol, including revolvers, but on my EDC CCW, I found it not worth it right now. When there are problems with the lens/emitter, its less of a problem if its an OWB carried firearm, but the stakes in those scenarios are lower, since that's generally at the range. Open emitter type just adds another variable that I don't find acceptable, given all the other variables that a red dot adds on a handgun.

 

I don't think its bad/wrong to use open emitter type red dots on CCW handguns, but I just don't think its worth it for me which is based on prior experience with them. What changes that is closed emitter types, which I'm still weighing if the other variables involved are ultimately worth it still.

[Real_PhillBert]

2 hours ago, Agall said:

I've had a first run G19 gen5 that's had an RMR cut on it since 2018 which I concealed carried for a while years back which was also my first forte. I had the same experience with the type 2 RMR that was on that firearm that I've had with other open emitter type red dots, including other RMRs, where it doesn't take much to absolutely annihilate the clarity of the dot for me. What doesn't help is without glasses, (which its quite frequent) dots are 5x the size and asymmetrical. 

 

The combination of my eyesight and having lint on the lens/emitter lens compounds to just make it not worth it for CCW right now. I have a red dot on almost every other pistol, including revolvers, but on my EDC CCW, I found it not worth it right now. When there are problems with the lens/emitter, its less of a problem if its an OWB carried firearm, but the stakes in those scenarios are lower, since that's generally at the range. Open emitter type just adds another variable that I don't find acceptable, given all the other variables that a red dot adds on a handgun.

 

I don't think its bad/wrong to use open emitter type red dots on CCW handguns, but I just don't think its worth it for me which is based on prior experience with them. What changes that is closed emitter types, which I'm still weighing if the other variables involved are ultimately worth it still.

Have you ever done any occluded dot practice/training? Your first paragraph is almost text book symptoms of people who are looking at the dot, not the target. Lots of people do this without even realizing that they're doing it, especially those who have lots of practice being front sight focused. 

 

It sounds really dumb, but if you put a bit of masking tape over the objective lens of your optic, look at a target, then bring the gun up. if you cannot see the target, you're focusing on the dot, not he target. I know a few guys who have gone as far as to shoot matches with their dots taped over. Something like this:

 

 

I know that I had some dot focus issues when I first tried it and I thought for sure I was target focused. I still do occluded dot dry practice every now and then, and it certainly helps.

[Agall]

13 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Have you ever done any occluded dot practice/training? Your first paragraph is almost text book symptoms of people who are looking at the dot, not the target. Lots of people do this without even realizing that they're doing it, especially those who have lots of practice being front sight focused. 

 

It sounds really dumb, but if you put a bit of masking tape over the objective lens of your optic, look at a target, then bring the gun up. if you cannot see the target, you're focusing on the dot, not he target. I know a few guys who have gone as far as to shoot matches with their dots taped over. Something like this:

 

 

 

I know that I had some dot focus issues when I first tried it and I thought for sure I was target focused. I still do occluded dot dry practice every now and then, and it certainly helps.

I target focus even with iron sights, especially close up. My peripherals can properly sight align with handgun irons without needing to front sight focus. I do the same with red dots. I also always shoot with both eyes open outside of zeroing, if even necessary.

 

Its simply really bad astigmatism, worse in my dominant eye than my non dominant eye. I have no problems actually using a red dot when I use my glasses or understand that my point of aim looks like this:

 

Glasses off:

 

Glasses on:

 

Its easy for me to replicate by simply having my glasses on/off, on/off to see this. It's also different with each eye, usually better if I use my non-dominant eye. All corrected by glasses, but I don't always wear them. Less of a problem with normal red dots, but I just use prism optics for this reason anyways.

[Real_PhillBert]

I shot a Steel Challenge match this weekend. I'm pretty happy with my performance considering I haven't shot a steel challenge match in a few years; ended up 4th of 37 centerfire pistol shooters.

 

Because Steel Challenge doesnt have a limited optics div, I shot my Staccato P with RMR in open, still ended a high B class even in open, which was cool. 

 

The real fun though was bringing out my cop buddy who's never shot a match of any type before, he is pretty down to earth but still was pretty humbled but didnt get DQ'd. He had a good time and want to do the next one, so I'm counting that as a victory.

[Agall]

1 minute ago, Real_PhillBert said:

I shot a Steel Challenge match this weekend. I'm pretty happy with my performance considering I haven't shot a steel challenge match in a few years; ended up 4th of 37 centerfire pistol shooters.

 

Because Steel Challenge doesnt have a limited optics div, I shot my Staccato P with RMR in open, still ended a high B class even in open, which was cool. 

 

The real fun though was bringing out my cop buddy who's never shot a match of any type before, he is pretty down to earth but still was pretty humbled but didnt get DQ'd. He had a good time and want to do the next one, so I'm counting that as a victory.

Not getting DQ'd his first match is a victory in my book. Congrats!

[Slash003]

On 9/12/2023 at 1:03 PM, Agall said:

Not getting DQ'd his first match is a victory in my book. Congrats!

That's my goal, doing my first match in October! Got a case of 9 and an owb holster finally, could do one this month, but got a prior commitment the same night as the match.

[SansVarnic]

New Top 3 possible next rifle purchase. 

 

Ruger Precision Gen 3 Bolt-Action Rifle - .338 or .308

Henry X Model Lever-Action Rifle - .360 Buckhammer

Winchester XPR Vortex Bolt-Action Rifle and Scope Combo - .30-06 Springfield

[wONKEyeYEs]

 

[Crunchy Dragon]

On 10/16/2023 at 9:19 PM, SansVarnic said:

New Top 3 possible next rifle purchase. 

 

Ruger Precision Gen 3 Bolt-Action Rifle - .338 or .308

Henry X Model Lever-Action Rifle - .360 Buckhammer

Winchester XPR Vortex Bolt-Action Rifle and Scope Combo - .30-06 Springfield

Faxon is supposed to be restocking on their bolt action FX-7 this week, I think. Available in 6.5CM, .308, and 8.6BLK.

[FakeNSA]

On an unrelated note: I just shot my first 22 pistol match (the entry level steel match at my club), and I'm hooked! (I have an SR22, and the combo of 10rd mags and gawdawful trigger.... didn't help my admittedly lackluster skill).

 

This, of course, activated the "poor financial decisions" part of my brain, and I am constantly scrolling past listings for the P322/TX22 (although I'm leaning towards the P322).

 

Now I've just got to wait for the MVD to ship my updated license, so the address matches :(.

[Agall]

52 minutes ago, FakeNSA said:

On an unrelated note: I just shot my first 22 pistol match (the entry level steel match at my club), and I'm hooked! (I have an SR22, and the combo of 10rd mags and gawdawful trigger.... didn't help my admittedly lackluster skill).

 

This, of course, activated the "poor financial decisions" part of my brain, and I am constantly scrolling past listings for the P322/TX22 (although I'm leaning towards the P322).

 

Now I've just got to wait for the MVD to ship my updated license, so the address matches :(.

I have a Taurus TX22 competition and it's a hilariously amazing pistol. The competition version is just better overall in my opinion for various reasons, to include how open the chamber is when you're +200 rounds in a range session and there's enough carbon buildup to start causing issues with any .22lr handgun. Better meets the use-case of a competition/range .22lr handgun.

 

On top of the barrel mounted optics system, threaded barrel (which I have a Witt Machine SME 5.56 muzzle device on) 3 factory magazines, amazing trigger, its hard to argue against. I use Recover Tactical's picatinny rail and holster system for it since finding a holster would otherwise be a nightmare, which I've modified one to accept Safariland style QD by simply drilling a lower hole with a self threaded bolt. 

Recover Tactical G7 OWB Paddle Holsters | $4.00 Off Customer Rated Free Shipping over $49! (opticsplanet.com)

 

I've had it go through whole boxes of 500 aguila without a single failure.

[SansVarnic]

13 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Faxon is supposed to be restocking on their bolt action FX-7 this week, I think. Available in 6.5CM, .308, and 8.6BLK.

Thanks I will look into this. Never shot a Faxon but have heard good things.

 

On another note, I may be looking into adding 6.8spc to my inventory and though I should have known this before but apparently the 5.56 is easily convertible to 6.8 with just a barrel and bolt swap.

[Crunchy Dragon]

11 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

Thanks I will look into this. Never shot a Faxon but have heard good things.

 

On another note, I may be looking into adding 6.8spc to my inventory and though I should have known this before but apparently the 5.56 is easily convertible to 6.8 with just a barrel and bolt swap.

I was thinking of doing something very similar with .350 Legend, since it'll run out of standard AR mags, lowers, and bolts -- just have to slap together an upper and I can have a deer rifle.

[Crunchy Dragon]

Started my first AR build today. It'll come slowly, but I'm piecing together an upper, paycheck by paycheck. Should have it done by the end of the year, or shortly after the new year.

 

Contrary to what my above post may imply, I'm opting for 5.56 instead of .350 Legend.

 

In terms of price, it should come out to More Expensive Than My Current Rifle, which is partly why I'm not buying all at once. I also like the idea of having a rifle that I picked all the parts of and assembled myself. Should be fun!

 

Today I ordered the barrel from our boys at Faxon Firearms because early holiday sales go hard. Not sure what order I'll buy the rest of the parts in, but I'll figure that out.

[Agall]

15 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Started my first AR build today. It'll come slowly, but I'm piecing together an upper, paycheck by paycheck. Should have it done by the end of the year, or shortly after the new year.

 

Contrary to what my above post may imply, I'm opting for 5.56 instead of .350 Legend.

 

In terms of price, it should come out to More Expensive Than My Current Rifle, which is partly why I'm not buying all at once. I also like the idea of having a rifle that I picked all the parts of and assembled myself. Should be fun!

 

Today I ordered the barrel from our boys at Faxon Firearms because early holiday sales go hard. Not sure what order I'll buy the rest of the parts in, but I'll figure that out.

 You have yourself an armorer's wrench for the castle nut and barrel nut yet?

[atxcyclist]

18 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Started my first AR build today. It'll come slowly, but I'm piecing together an upper, paycheck by paycheck. Should have it done by the end of the year, or shortly after the new year.

 

Contrary to what my above post may imply, I'm opting for 5.56 instead of .350 Legend.

 

In terms of price, it should come out to More Expensive Than My Current Rifle, which is partly why I'm not buying all at once. I also like the idea of having a rifle that I picked all the parts of and assembled myself. Should be fun!

 

Today I ordered the barrel from our boys at Faxon Firearms because early holiday sales go hard. Not sure what order I'll buy the rest of the parts in, but I'll figure that out.

I owned an M&P AR when they first got to market, sold it at one point to fund other stuff. I built my current AR a few years back, started with a matched Wilson Combat receiver set and picked-out everything over a few months time; It’s much more rewarding to piece something together, and it is more accurate than the factory rifle I had.

[Agall]

12 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I owned an M&P AR when they first got to market, sold it at one point to fund other stuff. I built my current AR a few years back, started with a matched Wilson Combat receiver set and picked-out everything over a few months time; It’s much more rewarding to piece something together, and it is more accurate than the factory rifle I had.

Most of it is usually the barrel with other variables like the mating face of the receiver. Depending on how 'standard' you go with the parts will depend on how difficult it is to tune.

 

My DIY InrangeTV WWSD clone rifle took some time to tune, part of the problem was getting a slightly out of spec first batch KP-15 lower. Something about that lower had the takedown pin holes too far forward, something KE Arms fixed by replacing the lower. Wasn't my go-to rifle for a solid year after tuning all the parts, although, every part was non-standard but the gas tube  

 

@Crunchy Dragon Something to keep in mind with Faxon barrels is they like to oversize the gas port. Easily fixed by using an H1 buffer, something you can usually get away with no matter what, but especially important on most Faxon barrels. Supposedly they do it to reliably cycle underpowered ammo, and usually having a slightly larger gas port is A LOT better than a slightly too small one when it comes to reliability. My Faxon 14.5" integral barrel wanting an H1 buffer to not beat the lower up with too high of a bolt velocity.

[Crunchy Dragon]

8 hours ago, Agall said:

 You have yourself an armorer's wrench for the castle nut and barrel nut yet?

Yeah, a basic set of tools are also on my list. I'm not too fussed about obtaining all the tools immediately, since I'll likely be waiting until I have all the parts to start putting things together. Will be needing some lube for the castle nut also, I forget if I need it for the barrel nut too. Fortunately I already have a workbench with a vise mounted to it, so that's something I won't have to buy.
Found this nifty Reddit post detailing tools needed, which is more or less what I already had on my list from reading other guides online and watching some videos.

Spoiler

plus I'm trying to see if I can convince some of my relatives to gift me gunsmithing tools for Christmas this year >:D

 

5 hours ago, Agall said:

 

 

@Crunchy Dragon Something to keep in mind with Faxon barrels is they like to oversize the gas port. Easily fixed by using an H1 buffer, something you can usually get away with no matter what, but especially important on most Faxon barrels. Supposedly they do it to reliably cycle underpowered ammo, and usually having a slightly larger gas port is A LOT better than a slightly too small one when it comes to reliability. My Faxon 14.5" integral barrel wanting an H1 buffer to not beat the lower up with too high of a bolt velocity.

Good to know, thanks! What I'll probably do once I have the upper completed is test it on my current lower, and use that to figure out some of the finer details, so I can definitely pick up an H1 buffer to try with it, and then I'll have that on hand for when I build the dedicated lower for this rifle

 

You think any regular gas block will be fine? I was looking at an Aero Precision adjustable block, as a suppressor is on my list of extreme stretch goals for this rifle. Kind of wanting a Surefire Warcomp as my muzzle device, and Surefire doesn't appear to be making flow through suppressors at all.

[Agall]

2 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Yeah, a basic set of tools are also on my list. I'm not too fussed about obtaining all the tools immediately, since I'll likely be waiting until I have all the parts to start putting things together. Will be needing some lube for the castle nut also, I forget if I need it for the barrel nut too. Fortunately I already have a workbench with a vise mounted to it, so that's something I won't have to buy.
Found this nifty Reddit post detailing tools needed, which is more or less what I already had on my list from reading other guides online and watching some videos.

  Reveal hidden contents

plus I'm trying to see if I can convince some of my relatives to gift me gunsmithing tools for Christmas this year >:D

 

Good to know, thanks! What I'll probably do once I have the upper completed is test it on my current lower, and use that to figure out some of the finer details, so I can definitely pick up an H1 buffer to try with it, and then I'll have that on hand for when I build the dedicated lower for this rifle

 

You think any regular gas block will be fine? I was looking at an Aero Precision adjustable block, as a suppressor is on my list of extreme stretch goals for this rifle. Kind of wanting a Surefire Warcomp as my muzzle device, and Surefire doesn't appear to be making flow through suppressors at all.

I'd just get a Faxon gas block of the same gas port spec, but that's just my opinion. Gas tube, just get a milspec one, its designed to be a failure point before the barrel, so getting a crazy high temperature one is somewhat contradictory to its purpose.

 

You can dimple the barrel for the set screws but you're unlikely to run into an issue if you simply red locktite them with enough torque. I didn't do that for mine since I'd rather not drill into a pencil barrel. Less of a problem with a properly free floated handguard than the time with a front sight block style gas block.

 

Unless you're planning on a certain suppressor, I'd genuinely just get an A2 birdcage  

[Crunchy Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Agall said:

I'd just get a Faxon gas block of the same gas port spec, but that's just my opinion. Gas tube, just get a milspec one, its designed to be a failure point before the barrel, so getting a crazy high temperature one is somewhat contradictory to its purpose.

 

You can dimple the barrel for the set screws but you're unlikely to run into an issue if you simply red locktite them with enough torque. I didn't do that for mine since I'd rather not drill into a pencil barrel. Less of a problem with a properly free floated handguard than the time with a front sight block style gas block.

 

Unless you're planning on a certain suppressor, I'd genuinely just get an A2 birdcage  

Good enough for me.

 

The barrel I bought was Faxon's Gunner profile, so it's a Government profile near the receiver, and Pencil after the gas journal. Not sure if it comes dimpled or not, but yeah I'd probably just loctite + torque, call it a day.

 

I wasn't planning on a specific suppressor, still need to do research. I guess muzzle devices are fairly easy to swap out so it probably doesn't matter a ton. I'm sure there are plenty of suppressors that give better bang for buck(lol) than Surefire anyway.