AMD's Zen architecture will be late

[SirNumbers]

Hang in there lil phenom

[Deletive]

Your missing my point. Of course they don't need to die. They are already dead. I love AMD, but eventually you have to stop the CPR and move on with life.

They're not dead yet. When they sell out or go bankrupt then they'll be dead. This is a corporate you're legally allowed to be in debt. Unless you can't pay that debt then sure but they can pay it off currently so they are alive. 

[That Norwegian Guy]

terrible architecture designs

 

This is patently false. On the GPU side, AMD's forward thinking in terms of async compute is well-documented by now, so obviously they've got to have some brains there to be able to pass by Nvidia with DX11 optimizations becoming obsolete.

[pixeldensity]

i think everyone is losing their minds over something that hasn't been confirmed yet. AMD has not released any official statement supporting the statement.

[AlwaysFSX]

This is patently false. On the GPU side, AMD's forward thinking in terms of async compute is well-documented by now, so obviously they've got to have some brains there to be able to pass by Nvidia with DX11 optimizations becoming obsolete.

Having async compute in general isn't the whole story with performance. Notice this thread is specifically about CPUs however, which they fail miserably at.

[Guest Kloaked]

Having async compute in general isn't the whole story with performance. Notice this thread is specifically about CPUs however, which they fail miserably at.

 

Also notice how anything good happens with AMD, it's praised on the highest pedestal.

 

Nvidia releases better performance-per-watt architecture while still beating Radeon GPU's? Fucking fanboy why would you ever buy that shit from Nvidia kekekeke XDDDXDDDD

[Guest Kloaked]

I also think it's the idea that they're the underdogs and people are naturally going to root for the under-dog. I'm sure if the roles were switched, nVidia would inevitable be praised for their little achievements as well.

 

I wouldn't completely agree with that statement anymore though. AMD has been criticized a lot lately and praised little - mostly because they have made some dumb decisions the last 6 months.

 

People should think rationally no matter what.

[ACatWithThumbs]

They're not dead yet. When they sell out or go bankrupt then they'll be dead. This is a corporate you're legally allowed to be in debt. Unless you can't pay that debt then sure but they can pay it off currently so they are alive. 

While they are technically not dead they practically are.

They lost massive value AMD is less worth than ATI was when they bought it and they are now less worth than some game studios.

Intel is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge compared to AMD they simply can't compete no matter what they do.

And while they have more power in the GPU market Nvidia has far more resources while AMD is selling expensive GPU's for low prices.

The fact that they couldn't surpass Nvidia with the disaster that Maxwell was speaks for itself I don't think they will be able to handle Pascal especially if Nvidia goes aggressive on the pricing.

Them getting bought by a big company is a good thing because we need money to flow into competition again.

AMD being so weak has more than doubled the GPU prices in the last 5 years.

 

[AresKrieger]

People should think rationally no matter what.

Yep and a rational decision would be for everyone to calm down and see how this plays out. LOL like that will happen

[Notional]

Also notice how anything good happens with AMD, it's praised on the highest pedestal.

 

Nvidia releases better performance-per-watt architecture while still beating Radeon GPU's? Fucking fanboy why would you ever buy that shit from Nvidia kekekeke XDDDXDDDD

 

It's not just that AMD is better at async compute, which is going to be focus for more developers, thanks to the consoles and DX12. We now know why NVidia had so much better performance/watt, which is because their compute is much weaker and the scheduler used for async has been removed from the hardware. So it's a double wammo.

[AlwaysFSX]

It's not just that AMD is better at async compute, which is going to be focus for more developers, thanks to the consoles and DX12. We now know why NVidia had so much better performance/watt, which is because their compute is much weaker and the scheduler used for async has been removed from the hardware. So it's a double wammo.

Sorry Notional but that's not it. Nvidia has better perf/watt because it's a simply more efficient architecture. Async computer wasn't a thing for DX11, where Nvidia excelled in and AMD did not. Lack of async computer in their cards means diddly squat for perf/watt. 

[Deletive]

 

While they are technically not dead they practically are.
They lost massive value AMD is less worth than ATI was when they bought it and they are now less worth than some game studios.
Intel is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge compared to AMD they simply can't compete no matter what they do.
And while they have more power in the GPU market Nvidia has far more resources while AMD is selling expensive GPU's for low prices.
The fact that they couldn't surpass Nvidia with the disaster that Maxwell was speaks for itself I don't think they will be able to handle Pascal especially if Nvidia goes aggressive on the pricing.
Them getting bought by a big company is a good thing because we need money to flow into competition again.
AMD being so weak has doubled the GPU prices in the last 5 years.

 

 

This is a place for discussions not ignorant conclusions.

AMD may be in in trouble currently for many different reasons that doesn't mean they should die. AMD doesn't need to right now is compete with Intel in the consumer market. These chips will be around Q3 2016 for the server market which is the better market for them right now, with only has intel in the x86 space. AMD having the Ipc of haswell while cutting the cost of their 16 core to a reasonable price price compared to intel will be able to put them in a much better spot. Even if they don't launch consumer chips, they'll probably be able to focus on the server market and get somewhere.

 

^ Read my previous response to the Intel comment.

 

Both architectures were really designed with 20nm in mind, The fast Maxwell doesn't have ASync Shaders was because Kepler stood up to the job and that the die size would be bigger. Thus they dropped it because the market Maxwell was really aimed at didn't need it. Again lets remember Fiji in the middle of production of Fiji there was a CEO change, nothings going to be perfect with that because the views the old CEO were different from Lisa's Su, a majority of the development of Fiji was with the old CEO. Nvidia has a lot more money, then AMD and from Kepler to Maxwell has made huge changes between their architectures; now look at GCN, There hasn't been a huge revision of the architecture (atleast no where near Maxwell). AMD has been keeping up, quite well for the age of the architecture. 

[ivan134]

Having async compute in general isn't the whole story with performance. Notice this thread is specifically about CPUs however, which they fail miserably at.

 

 

Good, I'll throw a rock at it if I need to. Just for reactions. Because giggles are amazing.

 

AMD is an absolute fucking failure for the past 4-5 or so years. They've done nothing but make financial fuckups, terrible architecture designs, and lack luster performance.

 

They don't know how to do CPUs or GPUs anymore. They should bow out of the game and let someone else take over who can be real competition.

 

Alright buddy.

Also notice how anything good happens with AMD, it's praised on the highest pedestal.

 

Nvidia releases better performance-per-watt architecture while still beating Radeon GPU's? Fucking fanboy why would you ever buy that shit from Nvidia kekekeke XDDDXDDDD

Countering buffoons who interpreted the good reviews the Nano got as bad =/= praising to high heaven. Amazing that people are still talking about Maxwell's perf per watt when it was achieved by cutting out the very thing that hurt them in that dx 12 benchmark. That's some next level mental gymnastics.

[Guest Kloaked]

It's not just that AMD is better at async compute, which is going to be focus for more developers, thanks to the consoles and DX12. We now know why NVidia had so much better performance/watt, which is because their compute is much weaker and the scheduler used for async has been removed from the hardware. So it's a double wammo.

 

You are very misled.

[ivan134]

Sorry Notional but that's not it. Nvidia has better perf/watt because it's a simply more efficient architecture. Async computer wasn't a thing for DX11, where Nvidia excelled in and AMD did not. Lack of async computer in their cards means diddly squat for perf/watt. 

AMD's dx 11 performance has nothing to do with an inferior architecture, but inferior drivers. The advantage Nvidia has always had was more resources to pour into drivers at the release of every game while you have to wait much longer with AMD. Catalyst 15.7 let AMD's 2 year old cards trade blows with Nvidia's latest and greatest.

[AlwaysFSX]

AMD's dx 11 performance has nothing to do with an inferior architecture, but inferior drivers. The advantage Nvidia has always had was more resources to pour into drivers at the release of every game while you have to wait much longer with AMD. Catalyst 15.7 let AMD's 2 year old cards trade blows with Nvidia's latest and greatest.

I hope you geniuses know that "Nvidia's latest and greatest" still hasn't ever intended to be a performance leap but a power consumption leap. It still has the performance from cards that came out two years ago. It does in part have to do with an inferior architecture, if it's simply not as good for crunching certain code it won't do it as efficiently.

[iHardware Shelden]

Hang in there, my 2500k

My Q6600 just died, it does not want to wait any longer, so start preparing your 2500k cause 1st gen is next then onto sandy D:

[Notional]

Sorry Notional but that's not it. Nvidia has better perf/watt because it's a simply more efficient architecture. Async computer wasn't a thing for DX11, where Nvidia excelled in and AMD did not. Lack of async computer in their cards means diddly squat for perf/watt. 

 

GCN has been made for async compute and compute in general since day one. That is what the ACE units are for. Async compute was indeed a thing in mantle, and is being used in the consoles that has been underway for many years and is hitting close to 2 years old now.

 

The way nvidia achieved their efficiency is amongst other, to remove the hardware scheduler for (async) compute, and gimp the compute capabilities of the card. Sure that was a good way to go, as they could shove the efficiency stuff everywhere, and everyone ate it up. No one took the time to ask, at what consequence. We see that now, that the cards are going to suffer in DX12. Heck the 980ti is only a few months old, and we are already seeing games that render it obsolete. But we know nvidia uses planned obsoletion, but this is just ridiculous.

[Zah]

GCN has been made for async compute and compute in general since day one. That is what the ACE units are for. Async compute was indeed a thing in mantle, and is being used in the consoles that has been underway for many years and is hitting close to 2 years old now.

 

The way nvidia achieved their efficiency is amongst other, to remove the hardware scheduler for (async) compute, and gimp the compute capabilities of the card. Sure that was a good way to go, as they could shove the efficiency stuff everywhere, and everyone ate it up. No one took the time to ask, at what consequence. We see that now, that the cards are going to suffer in DX12. Heck the 980ti is only a few months old, and we are already seeing games that render it obsolete. But we know nvidia uses planned obsoletion, but this is just ridiculous.

What "games"?  We still have ONE benchmark game to go on.  For the last time, people, wait for more games to benchmark.

[ivan134]

Sorry Notional but that's not it. Nvidia has better perf/watt because it's a simply more efficient architecture. Async computer wasn't a thing for DX11, where Nvidia excelled in and AMD did not. Lack of async computer in their cards means diddly squat for perf/watt. 

Also, why does async not being a thing for dx11 matter when Nvidia sold Maxwell as dx 12 ready? You're conveniently ignoring that part.

[Guest Kloaked]

What "games"?  We still have ONE benchmark game to go on.  For the last time, people, wait for more games to benchmark.

 

It's no use. The ones who cry fanboyism will always have something to pull from their asses.

[Notional]

You are very misled.

 

Oh do enlighten me! That is exactly how it is. Most of nvidia's DX111 performance gain are due to multithreaded low CPU overhead drivers. Not super hardware.

[ivan134]

What "games"?  We still have ONE benchmark game to go on.  For the last time, people, wait for more games to benchmark.

Nothing is going to change with any other dx12 game that uses async compute. Maxwell is going to suck at any future dx 12 game that uses it because Maxwell does not do compute, period. What performance will look like on other dx 12 games that don't use it, is still up in the air.

[Guest]

meanwhile, Intel moves to 10nm (apparently)

If it's anything like their move to 14nm, I'm sure we'll see it on the desktop by 2020

[Guest Kloaked]

Oh do enlighten me! That is exactly how it is. Most of nvidia's DX111 performance gain are due to multithreaded low CPU overhead drivers. Not super hardware.

 

 

Lol.

 

This is amazing.