AMD's Zen architecture will be late

[RagnarokDel]

 But not AMD's bankruptcy

[Briggsy]

valve had the right idea... before anyone thought of it, as usual

it really would be better, if consoles died out and we all just moved to very small PC`s (PC`s that can be used for ms office and everything a REAL PC can do, if you want); gimped computers locked into to some specific use - are cancer

On the other, game developers will almost always gravitate toward consoles because there's no variance in hardware. There are a lot of games that would never have been made, or at least in decent quality if it wasn't for the large console audience. They can't spend 500+ million on gta5 and only release it on pc, they would make no money. A lot of pc only titles often have a much smaller budget, with the exception of star citizen or SW:TOR, or maybe WOW.

Sad reality is, that as crappy as console ports sometimes are, the quality of games is directly related to the expected number of sales, although there are always exceptions.

[bogus]

valve had the right idea... before anyone thought of it, as usual

 

it really would be better, if consoles died out and we all just moved to very small PC`s (PC`s that can be used for ms office and everything a REAL PC can do, if you want); gimped computers locked into to some specific use - are cancer

 

The problem is the effort you need to put beyond concepts and ideas... it's that extra mile that makes consoles still relevant to these days. Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sega (back then) and many others invested billions into marketing the platforms but also they stood behind game developers (by staying behind, they invested in them).

 

On one side I agree with you, but on the other the PC is just another platform filled with proprietary shit and bloatware that it's just fragmenting performance of many players.

 

At least on the console side, each console vendor makes sure that for their platform you get the best experience.

 

On the PC it's far from it, even console ports come broken as shit - you have the same user base, using the same platform, but by chosing for example different GPU vendors they get different experiences, and that's just stupid. Game developers are being pressured by graphics cards dudes ... I mean, what the fuck lol... They sell one component of a computer, and they are calling the shots? They don't fund game development, they fund their bloatware to be in a game. They use tech advancements to control performance, and to control the need to bring their customer base back to market again for another graphics card, not to bring pc gaming to a new level, wich is sad and it's one of the reasons why I don't like NVIDIA.

Until developers get full control of their product performance, you won't see brighter days ... that's why Mantle, DX12 and Vulkan made me excited

[Clyne]

GCN has been made for async compute and compute in general since day one. That is what the ACE units are for. Async compute was indeed a thing in mantle, and is being used in the consoles that has been underway for many years and is hitting close to 2 years old now.

 

The way nvidia achieved their efficiency is amongst other, to remove the hardware scheduler for (async) compute, and gimp the compute capabilities of the card. Sure that was a good way to go, as they could shove the efficiency stuff everywhere, and everyone ate it up. No one took the time to ask, at what consequence. We see that now, that the cards are going to suffer in DX12. Heck the 980ti is only a few months old, and we are already seeing games that render it obsolete. But we know nvidia uses planned obsoletion, but this is just ridiculous.

*cough* Voodoo 5 *cough*

Basically Nvidia is in the same hole as 3dfx. They decided to made hardware for software that took 3 years, and once it was released, DX8 was out and the Voodoo 5 never supported it because they deiced to improve on current gen stuff(Glide) and not focus on the future(Direct3D/DX8). 

[don_svetlio]

meanwhile, Intel moves to 10nm (apparently)

10nm is in 2018 though? wasn't it? I mean Icelake and all.

[JebKerman]

10nm is in 2018 though? wasn't it? I mean Icelake and all.

Apparently Cannonlake will be 10nm and is expected in the latter half of 2017

[don_svetlio]

Apparently Cannonlake will be 10nm and is expected in the latter half of 2017

That was how it was originally supposed to be but it got pushed back - several WAN shows ago it was discussed that Icelake is th die shrink.

[Ekpyrosis]

I'm mostly saying this under the assumption that whoever gets AMD will negotiate a deal.

 

Fun note:  I went back and read that contract, and AMD loses x86, but intel keeps the x86_64 license (I think).

Not quite. If AMD goes bankrupt, Intel can continue to use the x84_64 license, but if AMD is bought (change of control), both lose the rights to use each other's licenses.

For reference:

5.2 ( c) Termination Upon Change of Control. Subject to the terms of, and as further set forth in, Sections 5.2(d) and 5.2(e), this Agreement shall automatically terminate as a whole upon the consummation of a Change of Control of either Party.

[...]

(d) [...] (ii) In the event of any termination of this Agreement pursuant to Section 5.2( c), and subject to the provisions of Section 5.2(e), the rights and licenses granted to both Parties under this Agreement, including without limitation the rights granted under Section 3.8(d), shall terminate as of the effective date of such termination.

Source: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2488/000119312509236705/dex102.htm

[Biased Opinion]

I have to agree. Use GPU market profits to restart the CPU market. But the worst part is that they only have 20-25% of the GPU market... And I don't know why though, compared to Nvidia they win in every price segment except highest end where Nvidia slightly wins (980Ti vs Fury X).

They may win in price to performance but at what cost, all those chips are rebrands on old manufacturing processes, much more expensive to produce compared to a smaller chip on a new node.

[Guest Strangerbob]

10nm is in 2018 though? wasn't it? I mean Icelake and all.

 

10nm!

Much wow!

So NUMBERS!

Very impressive!

 

 

 

BRO? Fuck does it matter? You`ll still get the usual 5% generational performance increase.

 

I guess the power efficiency and even stronger igpu graphics would be nice for laptops and such.

But Intel already showed us that if they do that, they`ll charge 400$ for the cheapest processor.

[JebKerman]

But Intel already showed us that if they do that, they`ll charge 400$ for the cheapest processor.

the i3s are yet to come, and at least they've made some noticeable progress.

 

Zen might give Intel and incentive to speed things up. I suspect Intel's got something ready in the event Zen outperforms their chips.

[Guest Strangerbob]

the i3s are yet to come, and at least they've made some noticeable progress.

 

Zen might give Intel and incentive to speed things up. I suspect Intel's got something ready in the event Zen outperforms their chips.

 

Im really done with intel.

 

And im not gona be one of these shits who wait for AMD to get good, so they can buy better Intel products afterwards.

 

Nono, if my gona give my money to any of these rip-off artists, it will be AMD...

....for a Shared HBM APU, so i can have a 3 component pico/nuc sized system (APU + SSD + PSU)

[SkilledRebuilds]

Yes, APU's will benefit from the HBM bandwidth,  NO it does not make their CORE strengths any better/faster, performance will be the same as if you paired it with super fast memory, because the Core can only be so strong in a tiny package, HBM or not, APU cores are not strong enough to do what dedicated cards can pull off, HBM or not.

Wish I was wrong..but it is what it is.

 

Sure, a HBM enabled APU would be nice for certain tasks, but don't hold out for Modern Gaming @ 1080p @ High details with them.

[HalGameGuru]

At some point AMD will put gamer level graphics onto an APU. Probably the same time they put HBM on them. ANd it will be great. Probably pricey. And maybe too little too late. But, there is a gaming future for APU, either from AMD or from Intel, or casting a slightly wider net, nVidia.

 

To think otherwise is to remake the assumption the PC will never be used by anyone but accountants and clerks.