[Updated] Oxide responds to AotS Conspiracies, Maxwell Has No Native Support For DX12 Asynchronous Compute

[MageTank]

I don't see it.

I am still waiting to see it too. I've sent him several private messages waiting to see it, and he keeps making excuses. What else can i expect from a man that counts the times he is wrong on a forum, and wears it as a badge. Clearly he is not used to being wrong, as he would know its best to learn from ones mistakes.

 

@patrickjp93: Come on. Give me the benchmarks that you claim to have. End it now before your ego takes any more damage.

[Prysin]

I don't see it.

@patrickjp93

 

she doesnt see your evidence. Do not make the lady sad plz.

[MageTank]

@patrickjp93

 

she doesnt see your evidence. Do not make the lady sad plz.

What about me?

[Prysin]

What about me?

i am confident you can handle waiting a lot longer.

[Zah]

I just found out something.  Async Compute is actually NOT a part of DX12, however, as the developer I think points out, it is exposed and allowed to be utilized under DX12.  So while Maxwell is actually "DX12" ready, it is not async ready.  AMD is actually able to utilize something that is NOT a part of DX12 to gain these advantages, which is actually quite marvelous in my opinion.

[Shakaza]

What about me?

I'm kinda starting to think Patrick has ignored you. I've always hated features like those, because then your words are falling on deaf ears. I can't stand that isolation. And I'd hate to put someone on my ignore list, because then I'd miss valuable user input, even if I don't agree with it.

 

I'm still hopeful though, 'cuz I like Patrick.

[DEDRICK]

I just found out something.  Async Compute is actually NOT a part of DX12, however, as the developer I think points out, it is exposed and allowed to be utilized under DX12.  So while Maxwell is actually "DX12" ready, it is not async ready.  AMD is actually able to utilize something that is NOT a part of DX12 to gain these advantages, which is actually quite marvelous in my opinion.

 

FTFY. The Maxwell "Yes" has already been determined to inaccurate as discussed in this thread

 

[Ekpyrosis]

You seem very sure about that, LMFTFY

 

That's probably just what the driver reports, not taking in account the perfomance if used, just like a 970 reports 4GB usable VRAM.

Curiously, their driver reported this feature was functional but attempting to use it was an unmitigated disaster in terms of performance and conformance so we shut it down on their hardware. As far as I know, Maxwell doesn't really have Async Compute so I don't know why their driver was trying to expose that.

[DEDRICK]

That's probably just what the driver reports, not taking in account the perfomance if used, just liked a 970 reports 4GB usable VRAM.

 

Oh, I was more responding to him saying that Async Compute was not a DX12 function, not that Maxwell was reporting yes

[xAcid9]

FTFY. The Maxwell "Yes" has already been determined to inaccurate as discussed in this thread

 

This picture is not entirely correct though, no current GCN support ROV and Conservative Rasterization.

 

Taken from Tomshardware.

 

It should be noted, however, that Asynchronous Shaders isn't something new only to DirectX 12; it will also be a part of the new Vulkan API as well as LiquidVR, and it exists in AMD's Mantle.

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-dx12-asynchronous-shaders-gcn,28844.html

 

 

And this is from Nvidia website.

 

People at Beyond3d already show that Nvidia graphic is capable of doing Async compute though i'm not sure how reliable the result was.

[Agent181]

And this actually surprises you? i'de be worried if it didn't turn out like this.

never seen it this bad though.... from the many fights I have seen from all sides this one is the worst.... except for the time of the shitty pentium vs athlon war that happened in the 2000s but its been years since that one....

[Icecube26]

FTFY. The Maxwell "Yes" has already been determined to inaccurate as discussed in this thread

 

incorrect or maybe photoshoped picture....from what i know... current AMD cards dont support directx 12.1 features... 

[DEDRICK]

This picture is not entirely correct though, no current GCN support ROV and Conservative Rasterization.

 

-snip-

 

While the picture may be inaccurate in feature levels, the point still stands that Async Compute is part of DX12, as well as Vulkan and Mantle.  We have diverged far from the original intention of the post which was to correct a statement saying Async Compute is not a part of the DX12 feature list

[Icecube26]

While the picture may be inaccurate in feature levels, the point still stands that Async Compute is part of DX12, as well as Vulkan and Mantle.  We have diverged far from the original intention of the post which was to correct a statement saying Async Compute is not a part of the DX12 feature list

main goal of this thread was to find out if NV cards support Async Compute or not... and the result .. we dont know ...

[patrickjp93]

I'm kinda starting to think Patrick has ignored you. I've always hated features like those, because then your words are falling on deaf ears. I can't stand that isolation. And I'd hate to put someone on my ignore list, because then I'd miss valuable user input, even if I don't agree with it.

I'm still hopeful though, 'cuz I like Patrick.

I haven't ignored him. I'm a senior and master's student in college, I have 20 hours of classes, homework, research to do, time and events to plan, exercise to do to get in better shape for a new suit before career fair. I am busy! I'm not going to go trawling through the net for 4K benches from months ago when I only get batches of 10 minutes for breaks. Sheesh...

[patrickjp93]

never seen it this bad though.... from the many fights I have seen from all sides this one is the worst.... except for the time of the shitty pentium vs athlon war that happened in the 2000s but its been years since that one....

It will return with Kaby Lake vs. Zen. I guarantee it.

[Shakaza]

I haven't ignored him. I'm a senior and master's student in college, I have 20 hours of classes, homework, research to do, time and events to plan, exercise to do to get in better shape for a new suit before career fair. I am busy! I'm not going to go trawling through the net for 4K benches from months ago when I only get batches of 10 minutes for breaks. Sheesh...

Fair enough. I'm mostly trying to keep him occupied so he doesn't go railing on you again. No offense, @MageTank.  :lol:

[Zah]

While the picture may be inaccurate in feature levels, the point still stands that Async Compute is part of DX12, as well as Vulkan and Mantle.  We have diverged far from the original intention of the post which was to correct a statement saying Async Compute is not a part of the DX12 feature list

If part of it is incorrect, why should we believe anything of the picture?  I have seen other pictures showing that GCN does not possess these features (also from Microsoft), and that Async computer is NOT a part of DX12.

[MageTank]

Fair enough. I'm mostly trying to keep him occupied so he doesn't go railing on you again. No offense, @MageTank.  :lol:

I think your idolization of patrick has blinded you a bit, i did not start this with him. He threw out numbers he could not prove. I asked him if he could show me where he got his numbers from, and he immediately started calling me stupid, and insulting me for no reason other than me asking him a question.

 

I am not "railing" on him. I am making demands for the things he promised me. You were invited to that group message, you saw him tell me he would give them to me. You also saw him make excuses for doing something else, like eating. He had time to continue arguing with other random people all day today in this thread, but not enough time to send me a link to a benchmark he claimed to already have? He is grasping at straws. 

 

Besides, it's already over. I have proven that his 20% logic does not hold up, because 3dmark does not offer an accurate comparison for how a GPU performs in a real game. The only variable left will be what those 50% extra EU's will do. Seeing as they are clocked 15% lower (Not factoring in OCing, because i know he will tell me you can OC them), they will not equate to 50% more performance across the board. That being said, they will still offer an improvement. Once Skylake GT3e comes out, patrick and i will be able to put an end to this. I am placing my bets on myself though. 

[DEDRICK]

If part of it is incorrect, why should we believe anything of the picture?  I have seen other pictures showing that GCN does not possess these features (also from Microsoft), and that Async computer is NOT a part of DX12.

 

Please don't be dumb.

 

MSDN Resource on DirectX12 explaining in detail Synchronization and Multi-Engine, it even has a section on Asynchronous compute

 

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn899217(v=vs.85).aspx

[Prysin]

I think your idolization of patrick has blinded you a bit, i did not start this with him. He threw out numbers he could not prove. I asked him if he could show me where he got his numbers from, and he immediately started calling me stupid, and insulting me for no reason other than me asking him a question.

 

I am not "railing" on him. I am making demands for the things he promised me. You were invited to that group message, you saw him tell me he would give them to me. You also saw him make excuses for doing something else, like eating. He had time to continue arguing with other random people all day today in this thread, but not enough time to send me a link to a benchmark he claimed to already have? He is grasping at straws. 

 

Besides, it's already over. I have proven that his 20% logic does not hold up, because 3dmark does not offer an accurate comparison for how a GPU performs in a real game. The only variable left will be what those 50% extra EU's will do. Seeing as they are clocked 15% lower (Not factoring in OCing, because i know he will tell me you can OC them), they will not equate to 50% more performance across the board. That being said, they will still offer an improvement. Once Skylake GT3e comes out, patrick and i will be able to put an end to this. I am placing my bets on myself though. 

well OC vs non OC is a silly argument...

 

"970 can beat a 390X if you OC it".... sure, it can (yes it can).... but even a minute OC on the 390X wrecks the 970 outright..... AAAAND then we are back at square one....

 

 

 

I must say thought.... Async Compute and DX12.... how will Kaveri APUs fare? they should get a substantial bump (for an APU) in games leveragin their GCN 1.1 architecture

[Shakaza]

-snip-

Did you look at his second-most recent post, about his time for only 10-minute breaks? That's enough to compose a post or two, but probably not enough to dig through benchmarks from months ago. Excuse or not, he's not so petty that he devotes more time on a tech forum than his college education. And I wouldn't say I idolize him, but I like him and his posts because they make sense, usually more than the posts of the person he's arguing with.

 

But I would call your premature exclamations that you've won the argument and how terrible it is that a person with a college education has lost to someone who got a sub-3.0 GPA in high school railing on him, when he hasn't responded for the aforementioned reason. You seem overly eager to prove him wrong, as if it really bugs you that he might be better than you otherwise, especially when you keep saying that's he's only making excuses as if you think college isn't a legitimate concern. Have you even gone to college? I would assume you haven't, because you only mentioned your high school GPA.

 

As for the 20% thing, it hasn't been proved one way or the other. I can't explain the 1080p Firestrike scores, but the 4K benchmark seems consistent with the actual performance of Intel's integrated graphics and doesn't have the same inexplicable difference between the GTX 750 and HD 6200. I don't have anything to counter the 50% increase in EU's and the 15% decrease in clock speed, though, so you got me there. 

[don_svetlio]

Am I the only one worried that Nvidia flat out lied and accused everyone they could to cover themselves?

[Agent181]

It will return with Kaby Lake vs. Zen. I guarantee it.

don't forget the hbm 2.0 war thats going to happen soon also

[Icecube26]

well aparently Maxwell doestn support async compute after all ... Proof:

 

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1104139 ....  AFAIK, Maxwell doesn't support Async Compute, at least not natively. We disabled it at the request of Nvidia, as it was much slower to try to use it then to not. 

 

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-wanted-oxide-dev-dx12-benchmark-to-disable-certain-settings.html

 

win win for AMD