Thoughts on AMD

[Mug]

The only thing I've heard from AMD is that Zen will have 40% higher IPC than Excavator, and that Zen is grouped in 4-core groups for layout purposes (only sharing the L3, officially).

Excavator's IPC is very slightly better than Yorkfield's (Core 2 Quad 9xxx). Haswell has, according to Intel, 39.39% higher IPC than Yorkfield.

So, if AMD delivered, exactly, 40% IPC improvement, they will have Haswell IPC. That will be 12% slower than Skylake's IPC.

AMD will have to compete with clock speed, core count, platform, and price. We know some of their apparent plans in regards to core counts and the platform - and they're very good plans (8-cores will still be on AM4, and they have teamed up with AsMedia to deliver a mature out-of-the-box experience from day one using time-tested designs that are often superior to Intel's designs).

Of course, AMD won't want to mix up the marketplace pricing too much. Intel has kept their prices at a good level, which is the only thing that is allowing AMD to possibly come back from the brink. Assuming AMD can match Haswell IPC, clockrates, but also SMT performance, I expect pricing to be as follows:

Zen 4C/8T @ 3.0Ghz: $179.99

Zen 4C/8T @ 3.5Ghz: $219.99

Zen 4C/8T @ 3.8~4.0Ghz: $259.99~279.99

Zen 6C/12T @ 3.0GHz - $299.99

Zen 6C/12T @ 3.3GHz - $359.99

Zen 6C/12T @ 3.6GHz - $399.99

Zen 8C/16T @ 2.8GHz - $499.99

Zen 8C/16T @ 3.1GHz - $649.99

Zen 8C/16T @ 3.4GHz - $829.99

If they can't match the same SMT performance, then pricing will be reduced. I'm also assuming AMD will have yield issues with the 8C, as well as clockrate issues, that are worse than Intel's. If they can scale Zen to higher clocks with 8 cores in this scenario, we can expect them to charge more for every step up. They would be foolish not do so, as Intel would just push 6 and 8-core Kaby Lake CPUs into the mainstream and erode the margins. AMD has a vested interest in keeping margins high. I also didn't take into account Skylakes pricing. If Skylake is the same price as current comparable CPUs when Zen is released, then this whole structure is simply cheaper by about $20 at the lower end and mabe $50 at the higher end.

If Intel has Kaby Lake out, then AMD CPUs will be cheaper still - and that much less competitive.

Need less to say, it will be a failure for amd

[Sauron]

Could you see Nvidia buying out AMD to eliminate any chance of them rising from the ashes?

 

No joke, that would be illegal.

[Chugle]

AMD would be a big loss really. intel's GPU share is for the people with desk/lap-tops with iGPU and is counted whether they're used or not. If the actual market share for intel was for the people that actually used the iGPU, it would be maybe 10-15% less, but I can't see intel making discrete GPU's, nor can I see Nvidia making CPU's, so there would me market dominance

Nvidia has already made CPU's so...

[The Sociologist]

As long as their are budget builders (which there will always be) AMD will always be around...unless Intel and Nvidia steadily drop their prices.

[TheConverter]

How to win AMD:

 

1) Stop giving Sony&Microsoft AMD chips for their console, you guys make shit margin anyways

2) Stop trying so hard to make an enthousiast product like the Fury X, or you will fail again

3) Instead focus on budget and somewhat mainstream cards and APU's. They could even make prebuilds/steamboxes themself.

4) All console players will switch to PC and we will all live peacefully for ever after without wars.

5) Profit???

[Dimetime35c]

AMD would be a big loss really. intel's GPU share is for the people with desk/lap-tops with iGPU, but I can't see intel making discrete GPU's, nor can I see Nvidia making CPU's, so there would me market dominance

Why not??? If you bought up AMD as Intel you'd have the full GPU department and unlike now. You could throw real money at there R&D department and see what they could do. If I was a tech company I'd be first in line to buy AMD. I'd can the CPU section and focuse on GPU. You basically have the second best maker of GPUs sitting there, all you gotta do is spend some money. I mean you'd have an already existing line of products that work and are keeping it's company alive. You'd be gaurnted not to lose money. You basically for lack of a better term have a gpu company in a box no assembly required.

[Dimetime35c]

Intel wouldn't buy AMD, it isn't in their interests.

Don't bin AMD's CPU line, otherwise there's no competition for inte;'s CPU's. instead, focus on making a HT system and cores with better IPC. Their APU's are great, and with HT and a higher IPC for the CPU core in them they could really shine.

Good point, but really they are so far behind Intel atm trying to keep up would cost a lot more money. Really all there GPU needs is some real money thrown at it and it could really start scaring Nvidia! Yeah so Intel will get that market. Maybe at this time it's for the best. Pick your battles. Basically focus on going toe to toe with Nvidia let Intel get complacent. Then come back with real money and go for them.

[Dimetime35c]

the Fury needs to be developed further, HBM is the way to go. Use the profits from enhanced furies to fund the CPU research.

Problem is what company would have the money and like for sight to do that? IBM is dead, HP couldnt, maybe Microsoft could. Honestly the crazy idea would be Intel grabs the GPU division and Nvidia grabs the CPU division. Both could turn them into a real threat to the other. Intel could do it faster as the GPUs are closer to Nvidia then the CPUs. But Nvidia has the cash to throw at the CPUs to really get them to a point Intel would be scared!

[Dimetime35c]

Honestly, it wouldn't happen. Intel has made sure that if anyone else gets the AMD CPU's, they can't use x86, which is the architecture things are based on.

Okay this would be a totally crazy idea. I think Nvidia could possibly have enough cash to say we'll fine x86 can't be used, we can make our own architecture! They could then possibly role out there own line of CPU and MBs that would support there GPUs only. Like apple they have enough of the market to force companies to develop for there specific product.

[othertomperson]

Intel and NVidia will have market dominance. There will be no innovation, prices will skyrocket due to no competition and a captive market. Life will be very, very shit for a techie, which is why i really fucking hate intel/nvidia fanboys bashing AMD when they're too thick to realise AMD is keeping the market going, even if their CPU's are flagging behind.

 

AMD haven't released a product to compete with Intel since Sandy Bridge and Nvidia have around 80% market share. If AMD were to disappear off the face of the earth right now you wouldn't notice. Intel and Nvidia already have no competition.

[Lays]

Intel and NVidia will have market dominance. There will be no innovation, prices will skyrocket due to no competition and a captive market. Life will be very, very shit for a techie, which is why i really fucking hate intel/nvidia fanboys bashing AMD when they're too thick to realise AMD is keeping the market going, even if their CPU's are flagging behind.

 

 

to be fair, intel has been pretty far ahead in the enthusiast market for a long time, and prices haven't really gone up, and performance increases have been basically clock-work in terms of increases.  

 

I don't think they would jack up prices and stop innovating

[Dimetime35c]

then operating systems would have to be built not only for 32 and 64 bit systems but also x86 and this new architecture. again, it wouldn't work. intel would just beef up the iGPU and dominate the market

Okay other crazy idea. I'm pretty sure Nvidia and Intel are buddy buddies. If Intel gets the GPU division of AMD I can see Nvidia kinda more or less saying to them hey let's all be friends let me use the x86 architecture in my cpus and I won't cut into your GPU sales to much. All they'd need is Intel okay. Doesn't have to be honest. But I bet they could find a way to get around the limitation from intel. Honestly or not so honestly.

[Lays]

they'd have no reason TO innovate. AMD might not be much of a threat to intel, but it's something. like getting chased by a chihuahua, it's insignificant compared to you, but it's still gonna hurt if it nips the back of your heels, but if the little rat on extended legs wasn't there you wouldn't be running in the first place

 

 

They would have reason to innovate, people will most likely not buy products if their new ones aren't any different than the last ones.

 

Loads of people already haven't upgraded from things like Sandy Bridge, despite Skylake being a pretty decent improvement.   Now if skylake was exactly the same & cost more, how many MORE people wouldn't upgrade? A big amount I'd bet.

[Dimetime35c]

I don't think Nvidia and intel are buddies, infact they kinca compete on the low end GPU market really, now more than ever with Iris graphics

Well you know what I mean. I think Nvidia could sweet talk intel into letting them use the x86 architecture. I'm pretty sure they could offer them some kinda deal, again how honest the deal would really be can be open to opinion. All Nvidia needs is the okay to use the x86 architecture and it's off to the races.

[SxTripxH]

No joke, that would be illegal.

 

Companies buying out other companies to eliminate competition happens frequently. Buying a company then shutting it down, reasons aside is not illegal.

 

It will be interesting to see the dynamic after AMD folds. If they do actually pull the plug, which I doubt. 

[Lays]

I don't see why they would innovate, if they had a market domniance, what they say goes. they could milk a chip for years and som noob will always swear by it

They basically DO have market dominance in the high end sector is what I'm saying, and they have for quite some time now.

 

Their performance increases have still been nearly the exact same, and the platform continues to be getting more support for new technology, and prices have stayed the same.

[cesrai]

How to win AMD:

 

1) Stop giving Sony&Microsoft AMD chips for their console, you guys make shit margin anyways

2) Stop trying so hard to make an enthousiast product like the Fury X, or you will fail again

3) Instead focus on budget and somewhat mainstream cards and APU's. They could even make prebuilds/steamboxes themself.

4) All console players will switch to PC and we will all live peacefully for ever after without wars.

5) Profit???

I'm not going to argue about the console part cause it's childish.

Do you really think their margains on the budget and mainstream GPUs and APUs are good ? if they want profit you HPC and server like IBM did.

[Guest trucker2]

I am sure that Microsoft and Sony would not mind that their flagship hardware line has no cpu or apu. They would just yank them of the shelves. Rewrite all the bios and OS's and reintroduce them as the xbox 2 and PS5. Intel would build a custom apu for the same price and Sony and Microsoft would not lose any profits.

  Since the above scenario is inconceivable I don't see it happening. Microsoft killed Lotus ( a huge player) with a few lines of code.

When you look at total profits from console games and total units sold you get an idea of how huge console gaming is. Not to mention the difference cache optimization can make in software across different platforms.

[Gala]

AMD will never die. The company that invented 64-bit just cant simply "die".

[cesrai]

-snip-

Sure thing man I'm a console fanboy if that's what you want but can you tell me why ?

So ignorant, they can use other stuff you know ? PowerPC ? cell processors ? ARM maybe ? figure something out ?

[Gala]

Sure thing man I'm a console fanboy if that's what you want but can you tell me why ?

So ignorant, they can use other stuff you know ? PowerPC ? cell processors ? ARM maybe ? figure something out ?

 

PowerPC?

ARM is underpowered, targeted a low power consumption and portable devices.

 

[cesrai]

I still don't know why AMD is selling their CPU&GPU'S to Sony/Microsoft if they made a Steambox themself, they would make much more profit.

*sigh*

They make money from them and make much more profit from Steambox ? can you elaborate to the console fanboy ?

[TheConverter]

Sure thing man I'm a console fanboy if that's what you want but can you tell me why ?

So ignorant, they can use other stuff you know ? PowerPC ? cell processors ? ARM maybe ? figure something out ?

 

That's not how it works.

Developers would have to remake and re optimize everything if the GPU&CPU changed in consoles. They would be forced to make a whole new console altogether. 

[EIijah]

No one can buy AMD and keep the CPU bit going, AMD uses part of intels x86 something or other and it's in the contract that any buyer would not get that information therefore AMD would no long be able to make cpu's very well unless they switched to ARM one's

[cesrai]

@TheConverter

IF you were like wondering if I'm a PC gamer or not check my steam profile.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/cesrai