Microsoft to buy AMD?! [updated]

[mr moose]

They nailed the execution in their advertising, so it doesn't matter that they didn't in their burgers.

 

Yeah, no of course not, I mean, clearly you don't get to become the worlds most recognized food brand, with outlets in the most countries and so on when you can't even make a key product to fit your business profile. :rolleyes:

 

Again, just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't successful in it's own right. 

[MageTank]

I am sorry, but it will be far more likely that AMD severs ATI from their business before being bought out as a whole entity. AMD could sell ATI, get rid of the debt that ATI brought with it, and focus entirely on CPU's and they would be perfectly fine. Not only that, none of these rumors mean anything until we see what Zen can do. If Zen is a success, AMD would not be in such a terrible situation in which they would have to sell, or risk bankruptcy. 

 

These rumors seriously need to come to an end. A rumor from an unknown source can be made up by anyone, and passed off as "news", and it gets old.

 

@SteveGrabowski0 Using Mcdonalds as an analogy to Microsoft is not the best idea. Mcdonalds sell their hamburgers because they are cheap and quick. It has nothing to do with the quality of the burger. That being said, the burger still has to be somewhat tasty or the people would not be buying them. Nobody goes to Mcdonalds and expects a 5 Star meal, they go for the quick, cheap satisfying meal for the price. It's not advertising, its called market strategy. Find what people want. Find what they are willing to pay for that product. Figure out how cheap you can make it without effecting the demand for that product. This is something good businesses excel at. Microsoft and Mcdonalds both have great market strategies.

 

That being said, every company is not without their faults. After all, Microsoft did have that issue with Zune (i personally liked them) not catching on due to a plethora of problems (namely, their marketplace and failed integration with Xbox). Microsoft understands business, and right now, that is what AMD needs. IF MS were to buy AMD, they wouldnt be canning any of the employees to replace them, because frankly, MS lacks hardware engineers. They would simply buy AMD, and take what AMD does best, and market the hell out of it. You cannot tell me that is a bad thing. 

[SteveGrabowski0]

Yeah, no of course not, I mean, clearly you don't get to become the worlds most recognized food brand, with outlets in the most countries and so on when you can't even make a key product to fit your business profile. :rolleyes:

 

Again, just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't successful in it's own right. 

 

You're right, maybe McDonalds wasn't the best company to compare to Microsoft since they actually did something innovative: namely the mechanization. Before McDonalds you had to pay a skilled cook to run a burger joint, now you just have to pay someone who can recognize a buzzer going off.

[SteveGrabowski0]

@SteveGrabowski0 Using Mcdonalds as an analogy to Microsoft is not the best idea. Mcdonalds sell their hamburgers because they are cheap and quick. It has nothing to do with the quality of the burger. That being said, the burger still has to be somewhat tasty or the people would not be buying them. Nobody goes to Mcdonalds and expects a 5 Star meal, they go for the quick, cheap satisfying meal for the price. It's not advertising, its called market strategy. Find what people want. Find what they are willing to pay for that product. Figure out how cheap you can make it without effecting the demand for that product. This is something good businesses excel at. Microsoft and Mcdonalds both have great market strategies.

 

Of course Microsoft has a great market strategy, they're enormously rich. I think you're underestimating the effect of McDonald's targeting kids. I don't know too many adults who think their burgers and fries are better than other similarly priced fast food options, but they get dragged there by their kids.

[MageTank]

Of course Microsoft has a great market strategy, they're enormously rich. I think you're underestimating the effect of McDonald's targeting kids. I don't know too many adults who think their burgers and fries are better than other similarly priced fast food options, but they get dragged there by their kids.

Oh, i fully understand. I was a child myself not long ago. However, the quality differs per restaurant. A Mcdonalds here in Columbus Ohio can be absolute trash, but i can go to a Mcdonalds in Gilbert West Virginia and it be the best fast food i have ever had. Some people do not take pride in their work, and it shows in the quality of the food. I worked in the fast food business (Little Caesars Pizza) and you can tell the difference between the quality of food depending on which employee made a pizza. 

 

When i was a kid, we did not choose which place to go based on food, but rather the toys offered with those meals. back in 2000, it was Burger King because of that Mew Pokemon card. After that, it was the transformers from Mcdonalds. The food itself was never the deciding factor for kids. For adults however, especially those with children, its whichever place satisfies the family for the least amount of money. Notice how once again, the quality of food does not come first in this scenario either. Since children themselves can be quite expensive, you take your savings wherever you can get them.

 

Out of all of the fast food joints, i personally prefer Rally's (Checkers for you non-Ohioians) because of their seasoned fries. But once again, location is key. Find a place that takes their jobs seriously, and you will get a better tasting meal. Find a restaurant full of people that do not care, and you will likely get a 3 day old microwaved burger on stale bread.

 

I do not understand your disdain towards MS, but i can assure you that far worse could happen. 

[SteveGrabowski0]

I do not understand your disdain towards MS, but i can assure you that far worse could happen. 

 

I don't want to see AMD make a panic move, I want to see what Lisa Su is capable of. This is the same company that destroyed a giant like Intel on performance for years when Intel was just trying to chase clockspeed at the expense of all else. Not that it was a bad strategy since they still vastly outsold AMD in the NetBurst era despite having significantly worse chips thanks to ignorant customers who believed megahertz was everything back then. I have always thought of AMD as a company for enthusiasts that just took some wrong turns in recent years, and I'm hoping Lisa Su can steer the ship back straight. Them waving the white flag and getting bought out by Microsoft would be a tragic turn of events.

[MageTank]

I don't want to see AMD make a panic move, I want to see what Lisa Su is capable of. This is the same company that destroyed a giant like Intel on performance for years when Intel was just trying to chase clockspeed at the expense of all else. Not that it was a bad strategy since they still vastly outsold AMD in the NetBurst era despite having significantly worse chips thanks to ignorant customers who believed megahertz was everything back then. I have always thought of AMD as a company for enthusiasts that just took some wrong turns in recent years, and I'm hoping Lisa Su can steer the ship back straight. Them waiving the white flag and getting bought out by Microsoft would be a tragic.

Like i said before, nothing is going to happen until Zen is launched. If it fails, that is when you should worry. Even then, i seriously think AMD will sell ATI to the highest bidder, cleanse themselves of ATI's debt, and regain their focus in the CPU realm. If Intel buys ATI for the graphics IP (Highly likely) this gives AMD a chance to attack intel on the CPU front while they are distracted with getting their bearings in the GPU market against Nvidia. All of this is more likely than Microsoft buying AMD.

[evilarceus]

What does Microsoft know about GPUs lol

 

Although, Microsoft may get a bit more competitive with NVidia.

[DarkRift5]

Hopefully a little more money can get AMD back up on its feet with R&D to fight intel/Nvidia, so lower prices/better performance for everyone.

[Dabombinable]

Like i said before, nothing is going to happen until Zen is launched. If it fails, that is when you should worry. Even then, i seriously think AMD will sell ATI to the highest bidder, cleanse themselves of ATI's debt, and regain their focus in the CPU realm. If Intel buys ATI for the graphics IP (Highly likely) this gives AMD a chance to attack intel on the CPU front while they are distracted with getting their bearings in the GPU market against Nvidia. All of this is more likely than Microsoft buying AMD.

You do realise that Intel already knows how to make a GPU that is more efficient than those made by Nvidia and AMD with their own IP? Buying Ati off AMD will be more than likely end up with Nvidia being constantly wipped to make better GPU, and AMD is extremely far behind Intel when it comes to CPU, with Zen only projected to have similar performance to Haswell, with Intel adding another 10-20% performance over it with Skylake and the 14nm manufacturing process.

[Albatross]

This doesn't seem like a good idea. I hope it isn't so.

[the.fire.bird]

If MS wants to buy AMD, it's only because of Xbone....

Rip AMD

[gamerdude246]

If MS wants to buy AMD, it's only because of Xbone....

Rip AMD

 

Your joking..right? 

[the.fire.bird]

Actually I am scared.... :-(

[Techhog]

This is the first time zMeul's unnecessary exclamation kinda works.

 

 

What does Microsoft know about GPUs lol

 

Although, Microsoft may get a bit more competitive with NVidia.

What would Microsoft need to know about CPUs or GPUs? AMD's problems have nothing to do with a lack of competent engineers; they just need a bigger R&D budget and better advertising.

[Techhog]

If MS wants to buy AMD, it's only because of Xbone....

Rip AMD

While that might matter to some degree, it would not be the only reason at all.

[Delusional Phil]

That seems like a dangerous deal.

I already see a world where windows runs bad on Nvidia

And all the licencing deals would go to shit, Intel needs the x86_64 license...

That would be the ultimate fuck you both move ... 

[the.fire.bird]

While that might matter to some degree, it would not be the only reason at all.

From a business perspective I can't find any other reasons.. AMD has no presence in Mobile processing. Microsoft is definitely not after manufacturing its own hardware for PC (OR ARE THEY??) . Currently AMD's only stronghold is consoles.

Actually I was hoping Samsung will buy AMD.

[Murdoch]

What does Microsoft know about GPUs lol

 

It's quite interesting you mention that. I was thinking about the main reasons I wouldn't buy AMD nowadays. And it's not necessarily just the better performance from Nvidia, it's the whole ecosystem. Shadowplay, Geforce Experience, Gamestream are all things I would miss greatly if I switched to AMD. There's huge potential for Microsoft to partner with and assist in the development of AMD software.

 

Also if you flip your statement around, you could say, what would AMD bring to Microsoft. For example, I see game streaming technology becoming huge in the not to distant future. This potential deal makes a lot of sense in that regard.

[Techhog]

From a business perspective I can't find any other reasons.. AMD has no presence in Mobile processing. Microsoft is definitely not after manufacturing its own hardware for PC (OR ARE THEY??) . Currently AMD's only stronghold is consoles.

Actually I was hoping Samsung will buy AMD.

We can't really say what MS would want. Samsung however? They'd put the ATI engineers on Exynos and ignore everything else. MS is the only one of the rumored buyers with even a remote chance of keeping AMD's x86 and dGPU presence around.

[MageTank]

You do realise that Intel already knows how to make a GPU that is more efficient than those made by Nvidia and AMD with their own IP? Buying Ati off AMD will be more than likely end up with Nvidia being constantly wipped to make better GPU, and AMD is extremely far behind Intel when it comes to CPU, with Zen only projected to have similar performance to Haswell, with Intel adding another 10-20% performance over it with Skylake and the 14nm manufacturing process.

You can't exactly compare Iris Pro 6200 to that of a full fledged gaming card. Yes, it is impressive, and yes, it would be nice if that would translate over into a gaming GPU, but Intel lacks the IP to actually make a competitive gaming GPU. Google what went down with Larrabee and you will understand why. Intel tried to sue Nvidia over them using a chip with integrated memory, and Nvidia made a counter-suit to remove all graphics IP from Intel chips. 

 

If Intel were to acquire ATI, everything they needed back then would be available to them, and they would be able to actively compete without infringing on Nvidia's patents. Whether or not intel knows how to make a GPU is irrelevant. Until they can do so without infringing on the patents of others, they will always be crippled compared to the high end cards. After all, physics will always come into play. You can simply do more with a larger surface area than what you can put on a single chip.

 

Also, i do not know if you have been keeping up with Zen, but its theorized that it will have insane efficiency gains. Think about it. They are still using dual-FMAC float unit design that the bulldozers had, but they doubled the size of the FMAC bit-width. Why is that important? Well, that float unit was designed to be a shared resource, but in Zen, its not shared between different Int units. That spells out large efficiency gains. The fact that they are dropping CMT, and picking up SMT is only going to be icing on the cake too.

 

Skylake on the other hand, that is where Intel has me confused. Intel is claiming that "Going from broadwell to skylake will be like going from prescott to conroe". Considering Conroe's IPC was like 3x that of Prescott, that has me seriously scared. If they deliver on that promise, then yeah, AMD is in serious trouble.

 

Sources on Larrabee and skylake if you are interested in the read.

 

Larrabee (older than dirt) http://www.vrworld.com/2009/10/12/an-inconvenient-truth-intel-larrabee-story-revealed/

 

Skylake: http://wccftech.com/intels-broadwell-skylake-uarch-transition-big-prescott-conroe/

[Techhog]

You do realise that Intel already knows how to make a GPU that is more efficient than those made by Nvidia and AMD with their own IP? Buying Ati off AMD will be more than likely end up with Nvidia being constantly wipped to make better GPU, and AMD is extremely far behind Intel when it comes to CPU, with Zen only projected to have similar performance to Haswell, with Intel adding another 10-20% performance over it with Skylake and the 14nm manufacturing process.

If you think that Intel would even consider having dedicated GPUs, you're lying to yourself. Intel would eventually go for the midrange with a powerful IGP, but they would not compete directly with Nvidia and Nvidia would own the high-end.

[MageTank]

If you think that Intel would even consider having dedicated GPUs, you're lying to yourself. Intel would eventually go for the midrange with a powerful IGP, but they would not compete directly with Nvidia and Nvidia would own the high-end.

Intel would try to compete if they had the means to do so. They just can't right now. History has shown that Intel loves to compete in several markets at once, so i can see them wanting to take on the graphics industry if they were able to do it. Back in the mid-late 2000's, they tried to enter it. Their downfall came when they got into a fight with Nvidia over things. I do however, think that Nvidia would be ready for Intel to try to take them on. Nvidia has been sitting around doing nothing lately because competition has not exactly been high. I firmly believe that they have enough tricks up their sleeve to answer Intel if they were to try to take them on directly. 

 

It would be nice to see a company with enough cash to throw at R & D to take Nvidia on head to head, as it would be amazing for us consumers. Even if technological advances come to a halt, competitive pricing makes things more affordable to us. 

[the.fire.bird]

We can't really say what MS would want. Samsung however? They'd put the ATI engineers on Exynos and ignore everything else. MS is the only one of the rumored buyers with even a remote chance of keeping AMD's x86 and dGPU presence around.

Samsung also manufacturers Laptops and PC components. And samsung has already proven their excellence in mobile processor technology, now with AMD's patents and engineering team they might have made a great GPU. Samsung's philosophy is to expand their business in every sector. They build everything. From SSD to tanks. I don't think they would have ignore the PC gaming market.

Microsoft is doing some good works after the CEO change (As Linus said in the WAN show).

But still from a business perspective I dont think they will do too much for the PC gamers as it will hurt their Xbox market. Sure recently they showed some interest in PC gaming, but their target is to make a better echo system (Phone-Xbox-Windows 10 PC). Xbox is still going to be their first priority for gaming.

[Dabombinable]

You can't exactly compare Iris Pro 6200 to that of a full fledged gaming card. Yes, it is impressive, and yes, it would be nice if that would translate over into a gaming GPU, but Intel lacks the IP to actually make a competitive gaming GPU. Google what went down with Larrabee and you will understand why. Intel tried to sue Nvidia over them using a chip with integrated memory, and Nvidia made a counter-suit to remove all graphics IP from Intel chips. 

 

If Intel were to acquire ATI, everything they needed back then would be available to them, and they would be able to actively compete without infringing on Nvidia's patents. Whether or not intel knows how to make a GPU is irrelevant. Until they can do so without infringing on the patents of others, they will always be crippled compared to the high end cards. After all, physics will always come into play. You can simply do more with a larger surface area than what you can put on a single chip.

 

Also, i do not know if you have been keeping up with Zen, but its theorized that it will have insane efficiency gains. Think about it. They are still using dual-FMAC float unit design that the bulldozers had, but they doubled the size of the FMAC bit-width. Why is that important? Well, that float unit was designed to be a shared resource, but in Zen, its not shared between different Int units. That spells out large efficiency gains. The fact that they are dropping CMT, and picking up SMT is only going to be icing on the cake too.

 

Skylake on the other hand, that is where Intel has me confused. Intel is claiming that "Going from broadwell to skylake will be like going from prescott to conroe". Considering Conroe's IPC was like 3x that of Prescott, that has me seriously scared. If they deliver on that promise, then yeah, AMD is in serious trouble.

 

Sources on Larrabee and skylake if you are interested in the read.

 

Larrabee (older than dirt) http://www.vrworld.com/2009/10/12/an-inconvenient-truth-intel-larrabee-story-revealed/

 

Skylake: http://wccftech.com/intels-broadwell-skylake-uarch-transition-big-prescott-conroe/

I know of the scuffle over Larrabee, and even though the Iris Pro 6200 is an iGPU, its performance is getting incredibly close to that of Nvidia and AMD's entry level dGPU-which have the benefit of dedicated vRAM and consume significantly greater power. And I know about Zen'z supposed efficiency gains-which would be better than that of the pre CMT CPU's if what I've read is correct. With Skylake, I just hope that Intel knows what they are doing and haven't outright lied about the performance gains.

If you think that Intel would even consider having dedicated GPUs, you're lying to yourself. Intel would eventually go for the midrange with a powerful IGP, but they would not compete directly with Nvidia and Nvidia would own the high-end.

Intel already has considered making a dedicated GPU (they even had a few being sold in the 90's), and even had a graphics card in the pipeline several years after their initial cards failed, but Nvidia pulled some crucial IP that Intel would have used so Intel didn't end up making their next graphics cards. (Intel also has OpenCL on their more recent iGPU BTW)