Republicans want to kill the FCC's plan to subsidize internet for the poor

[patrickjp93]

You may be able to convince yourself, but that is not the reality that we live in.

 

The evidence is out there if set aside your cognitive bias.

I've seen all ends of this story. No one gives a damn which public school you got your diploma from. Some private schools carry a reputation nation-wide, and in individual states, some local high schools carry a great reputation as well. Outside those states, no one cares. If you write your essays well, and your GPA is above a 3.5, you'll end up going to a top 30% institution, and unless you're in the league of Stanford, UC Berkeley, MIT, Johns Hopkins, or the like, there's really no difference in the quality of education in this tier. If your essay writing sucks, there's plenty of ways to get better at it for free, such as studying John Milton, Nicolo Machiavelli, Lord Byron, or Edgar Allen Poe at the local library. 

 

I've worked with/for recruiters from Miami, a "public ivy" institution which prides itself (very successfully) on being an equivalent education to the ivy league at a public school price (for in-staters anyway). None of 'em give a rat's ass which school you came from unless it's Avon Lake here in Ohio, in which case even with a low GPA you're given some extra consideration. As one who's lived on both sides of the system, it's your bias that needs adjustment.

[Anarchyz11]

You should come to Oxford, Ohio. There are plenty of job opportunities here and in neighboring (20 minutes away with a local busing system), and the town's full of nice people, and drunk frats, but that's any college town, and if you get into student housing, the rent's around 3800 for the year split between 4 people on average. The winter is nippy and the summer is hot, but it's a cheap college town for food, housing, and drink.

What the fuck we live in the same town.

 

But seriously, the U.S. k-12 educational system is broken as hell.

[Toddwjp]

Minimum wage doesn't work over here, as companies just raise their prices to offset the additional overhead of paying their workers more. All it does in the end is cause more inflation and further deepen poverty.

 

 

 

there is absolutely no proof of that, as the inverse is also true. a higher minimum wage increases the spending power of those who work causing an increase in number of sales of "luxury goods" giving the companies a higher revenue thus allowing them to pay workers more without negatively effecting the profit percentage.

[Unhelpful]

I've been to ohio. Nice state, but too flat. I want mountains lol.

There are hills near Cleveland and along the eastern quarter. We also have Campbell Hill. and Gildersleeve Mountain.

 

Western Ohio is flat.

[Trik'Stari]

there is absolutely no proof of that, as the inverse is also true. a higher minimum wage increases the spending power of those who work causing an increase in number of sales of "luxury goods" giving the companies a higher revenue thus allowing them to pay workers more without negatively effecting the profit percentage.

Sure their is. A higher minimum wage means a company has a larger amount of overhead. Meaning a smaller profit margin. Something that shareholders will not accept in any way. It's been proven time and time again. Just look at the US states that have a higher minimum wage, they also have a higher cost of living. My own state has two different "zones" of employment. Most of Virginia pays (last I was employed) about $10 and some change, for minimum wage, whereas "Northern Virginia" has a $12 minimum wage, but also a much higher cost of living.

 

There are hills near Cleveland and along the eastern quarter. We also have Campbell Hill. and Gildersleeve Mountain.

 

Western Ohio is flat.

 

Used to drive through ohio at least once a month (when me and my dad lived in michigan. we used to drive back to VA to see my mom and sister. Managed to get the time from Battlecreek Michigan to Tappahannock Virginia, down to 10 hours and 45 minutes), and I gotta say, other than the first 25 miles or so, along the north/south running ohio turnpike, that is one flat-ass state. Still, not mountainous enough for me. I want the western mountains, real mountains. (although the hilly part of ohio is beautiful, just like the rest of the Appalachian range, but still not big enough for me.

[Toddwjp]

Sure their is. A higher minimum wage means a company has a larger amount of overhead. Meaning a smaller profit margin. Something that shareholders will not accept in any way. It's been proven time and time again. Just look at the US states that have a higher minimum wage, they also have a higher cost of living. My own state has two different "zones" of employment. Most of Virginia pays (last I was employed) about $10 and some change, for minimum wage, whereas "Northern Virginia" has a $12 minimum wage, but also a much higher cost of living.

 

your confusing causes. do states with a higher minimum wage have it because cost of living is higher or the inverse. 

 

cost of living is generally tied to house prices rather then minimum wage. and a higher minimum wage gives the people more spending power, more spending power = more money going to companies, a staffing cost increase of 10% will not cause prices to rise by 10% most like 1-2% if not at all because staffing costs are in the majority of cases a small percentage of an items cost.

[ObscureMammal]

There are other ways. No one really cares where your HS diploma came from in the face of state standards. 

 

I've seen all ends of this story. No one gives a damn which public school you got your diploma from. 

Why are you stuck on "no one cares where your HS diploma came from"? No one has argued that point. 

 

What people are stating is simply - If you go to a exceptional school you will get a good education. If you go to a substandard school you will get an inferior education. That's not equal opportunity or equal education.

[Anarchyz11]

there is absolutely no proof of that, as the inverse is also true. a higher minimum wage increases the spending power of those who work causing an increase in number of sales of "luxury goods" giving the companies a higher revenue thus allowing them to pay workers more without negatively effecting the profit percentage.

Uh.  What do you mean there's no proof in that.  It's literally Microeconomics 101. 

[ivan134]

Why are you stuck on "no one cares where your HS diploma came from"? No one has argued that point. 

 

What people are stating is simply - If you go to a exceptional school you will get a good education. If you go to a substandard school you will get an inferior education. That's not equal opportunity or equal education.

Save yourself the trouble. You're wasting your time with him.

[Toddwjp]

Uh.  What do you mean there's no proof in that.  It's literally Microeconomics 101. 

 

there's no economic proof that raising minimum wage decreases employment or that it causes the cost of living to rise to the point where the increase was pointless. also it heavily increases spending, and the economy is heavily driven by spending so the extra spending allows companies to grow faster pay employees more and still see an increase in profits

[Anarchyz11]

there's no economic proof that raising minimum wage decreases employment or that it causes the cost of living to rise to the point where the increase was pointless. also it heavily increases spending, and the economy is heavily driven by spending so the extra spending allows companies to grow faster pay employees more and still see an increase in profits

So your argument is that if labor becomes more expensive, businesses will NOT find ways to cut that expense?

 

As someone who literally works in accounting for a F500 company, every time the local labor union strikes a deal with managers to raise wages, that same agreement contains clauses to layoff people to compensate for the extra cost.  If you forcibly raise a businesses expenses, they'll find ways to cut it.  To say that they won't is absurd. 

[Toddwjp]

So your argument is that if labor becomes more expensive, businesses will NOT find ways to cut that expense?

 

As someone who literally works in accounting for a F500 company, every time the local labor union strikes a deal with managers to raise wages, that same agreement contains clauses to layoff people to compensate for the extra cost.  If you forcibly raise a businesses expenses, they'll find ways to cut it.  To say that they won't is absurd. 

 

well then your company is the exception, raising minimum wage does not raise unemployment it has no effect several studies have show this and im inclined to value the out comes of the study s over your singular piece of anecdotal evidence.

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8543.2009.00723.x/abstract

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/288841/The_National_Minimum_Wage_LPC_Report_2014.pdf

 

also the low paying industries that run most of there employees on minimum wage are the ones that benefit most from increased spending power of those same people. 

[Anarchyz11]

well then your company is the exception, raising minimum wage does not raise unemployment it has no effect several studies have show this and im inclined to value the out comes of the study s over your singular piece of anecdotal evidence.

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8543.2009.00723.x/abstract

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/288841/The_National_Minimum_Wage_LPC_Report_2014.pdf

 

also the low paying industries that run most of there employees on minimum wage are the ones that benefit most from increased spending power of those same people. 

The first of those studies you linked states the effect is over-estimated, not absent.  Both studies research the effect of very small, routine increases to the minimum wage as well, which companies already put into their labor estimates as expected expenses.  The kinds of minimum wage increases seen here aren't going to change much of anything.  Virtually zero negative or positive effect.

 

But then again that's why decision makers increase minimum wage slowly.  My personal opinion is that the minimum wage in the U.S. should be around $9-$10.  That's about as far as we can go before companies have to seriously adjust their pricing and business strategy. 

 

 

Back towards your argument, yes, small, routine increases in minimum wage have very minimal statistical evidence showing they limit job growth.  But these increases studied are never large enough to outpace inflation, so these increases are never real increases at all.  It's not good evidence to support saying a real increase in minimum wage won't affect the number of jobs in the workforce, or prices. 

 

As I said, I'm for increasing the minimum wage.  But it can't be done willy nilly thinking it wont have drawbacks. 

[Unhelpful]

Used to drive through ohio at least once a month (when me and my dad lived in michigan. we used to drive back to VA to see my mom and sister. Managed to get the time from Battlecreek Michigan to Tappahannock Virginia, down to 10 hours and 45 minutes), and I gotta say, other than the first 25 miles or so, along the north/south running ohio turnpike, that is one flat-ass state. Still, not mountainous enough for me. I want the western mountains, real mountains. (although the hilly part of ohio is beautiful, just like the rest of the Appalachian range, but still not big enough for me.

ffs im not getting notifications right now...

[Embattled]

I just remembered something worth pointing out.

 

Back in 1996 we subsidized the internet, specifically the ISP's to upgrade their infrastructure, which they didn't do, and instead spent the money on buying each other. So I can kinda see why the republicans are against this.

 

Afterall, it won't be the government providing the internet, it will be the ISP's, and we've already seen what they do with government funding. Not a damned thing.

There should definitely be stricter rules written into these laws as what gov. subsidies are allowed to be spent on. 

[Embattled]

The first of those studies you linked states the effect is over-estimated, not absent.  Both studies research the effect of very small, routine increases to the minimum wage as well, which companies already put into their labor estimates as expected expenses.  The kinds of minimum wage increases seen here aren't going to change much of anything.  Virtually zero negative or positive effect.

 

But then again that's why decision makers increase minimum wage slowly.  My personal opinion is that the minimum wage in the U.S. should be around $9-$10.  That's about as far as we can go before companies have to seriously adjust their pricing and business strategy. 

 

 

Back towards your argument, yes, small, routine increases in minimum wage have very minimal statistical evidence showing they limit job growth.  But these increases studied are never large enough to outpace inflation, so these increases are never real increases at all.  It's not good evidence to support saying a real increase in minimum wage won't affect the number of jobs in the workforce, or prices. 

 

As I said, I'm for increasing the minimum wage.  But it can't be done willy nilly thinking it wont have drawbacks. 

A static minimum wage is retarded, tie it to inflation and update it every 6 months.

[patrickjp93]

What the fuck we live in the same town.

But seriously, the U.S. k-12 educational system is broken as hell.

Read my signature. I'm a Miami senior and grad student. And no, the system isn't so broken. Tons of opportunities are available 24/7 to anyone willing to apply him/her-self.

[patrickjp93]

Why are you stuck on "no one cares where your HS diploma came from"? No one has argued that point.

What people are stating is simply - If you go to a exceptional school you will get a good education. If you go to a substandard school you will get an inferior education. That's not equal opportunity or equal education.

The equal education exists in supplementary resources. You need only seize them. You can't have perfectly equal education everywhere. It's simply not possible. Make up for the deficit on your own. The poor are perfectly capable of this.

[Trik'Stari]

There should be definitely be stricter rules written into these laws as what gov. subsidies are allowed to be spent on. 

Not what they are allowed to be spent on, but ensuring what they are ACTUALLY supposed to be spent on, is what they get spent on. The 1996 telecommunications act being the biggest example.

 

Meaning: Don't just give the money to the companies, promise it to them, and then have them charge it to the government and have the government pay it out. That way the money gets spent on what it is supposed to be spent on. In the case of the 1996 TCA, expanding/upgrading the infrastructure of the ISP's. And not corporate mergers.

[Embattled]

The equal education exists in supplementary resources. You need only seize them. You can't have perfectly equal education everywhere. It's simply not possible. Make up for the deficit on your own. The poor are perfectly capable of this.

May we have someone who was in poverty at some point please check this? Because I am sure the poor aren't capable of obtaining a lot of educational opportunities.

[Embattled]

Not what they are allowed to be spent on, but ensuring what they are ACTUALLY supposed to be spent on, is what they get spent on. The 1996 telecommunications act being the biggest example.

 

Meaning: Don't just give the money to the companies, promise it to them, and then have them charge it to the government and have the government pay it out.

My mistake, this is what I meant. I should have worded my post more accurately. 

[Trik'Stari]

My mistake, this is what I meant. I should have worded my post more accurately. 

Understandable.

 

We need a public record of all government funding. To see exactly what the money is being spent on.

[Embattled]

Understandable.

 

We need a public record of all government funding. To see exactly what the money is being spent on.

Skunkworks would like to have a word with you

[Trik'Stari]

Skunkworks would like to have a word with you

Skunkworks can kiss my ass.

 

Just because something is on the budget doesn't mean it needs to have technical schematics accompanying it (at least where the "black budget" is concerned). We pretty much know all of their capabilities at this point as far as stealth technology goes. Not that it matters anymore with the advent of drones.

[Embattled]

Skunkworks can kiss my ass.

 

Just because something is on the budget doesn't mean it needs to have technical schematics accompanying it (at least where the "black budget" is concerned). We pretty much know all of their capabilities at this point as far as stealth technology goes. Not that it matters anymore with the advent of drones.

That was I joke but I understand, secret military research can just be annotated as just "Ariel Defense Research".

 

But don't we already have stats for the size of the black budget?