Ex-Employee Of Naughty Dog Claims Consoles Wont Be Outdated Due To RAM

[LePawel]

 I have not used over 8GB yet on a game.

You have RAM and VRAM. A modern Gaming PC has ~12GB of RAM, 8 for CPU and 4 for GPU. Consoles have 8 shared. Considering they run on sub HD resolutions, they probably use around 2GB as VRAM, ~1 for the system, with 5 left for the game. Now I'm not sure what are the exact differences between platforms, but I assume dumping more game data onto the 5GB of RAM left helps with performance. It could be a limitation.

 

This is why higher frequency RAM is so good for APU systems, because GDDR5 memory is much faster than 'regular' DDR3 and in APU systems, the DDR3 is used as VRAM.

Both right and wrong. APUs are fucking with industry standards, because DDR and GDDR are designed to run well with one of the two chips in an APU, which forces a compromise. GDDR5 is designed for parallelization while DDR3 for more linear workloads, beneficial for GPUs or CPUs respectively, but not both. GDDR5 has slower response time, but more flexible I/O design, while DDR3 has faster response, but is limited to channels (single, dual, quad) as a method of increasing I/O.

Both Sony and MS went the cheap way for their new consoles, and that's what's going to kill them, nothing else. 

[bigboy678]

People are so butthurt over consoles. The latest gen is easily multiple times faster than previous consoles. I guess they need to stick a R9 290X and FX-8350 into them in order to make people happy with a $1000 price point. They were a major upgrade from any previous console and AMD is already taking inventory for the new batch of them coming out this holiday season. I would imagine they will update the cores to Puma+ for better power efficiency and update the graphics IP to GCN 1.2 for better power efficiency. In doing so they can add in more shaders if need be without the unit consuming more power or running any hotter than the previous generation. Plus HBM is available now so I imagine the next gen consoles will do away with GDDR5 and DDR3.

 

 The problem is that consoles nowadays last 5-6 years and when you release them and they cant even push 1080P (probably the most common display resolution at the moment) most of the time thats the problem. While resolution isnt all that matters people do like to use their display to its full potential. Microsoft and Sony both cheaped out on this generation. Microsoft probably spent too much time and money with kinect. I can kind of understand why Sony cheaped out though. They spent so much and lost such much putting blu ray drives in the ps3 they probably were trying to recoup quite a bit of lost. 

 

No I dont think people expect a 290x or equivalent. The reason why people are upset is the gpu in the current consoles when they were released were based on a 3 year old gpu technology (7950?). Basically what im saying is Microsoft and Sony both need to over provision their consoles in the future a bit instead of under provision. Especially with such a long console life. 

[Thony]

Lolz, GTA V easily pulls 8-10gb for me.

Read the article. It says RAM use on consoles is considerably lower.

[ACatWithThumbs]

What are you expecting out of a $400 unit? The GPU in both consoles easily exceeds 10x the performance of the RSX that was in the PS3. What you're saying is they should of jacked up the price to $1000 which is necessary for extending out to higher hardware profiles? I don't think anyone is going to buy a $1000 PS4. Instead you have an affordable unit that's a huge step forward from their predecessors. You've come to expect too much out of consoles which is the problem. They will never live up to a gaming desktop like they haven't and never will so I would accept the simple facts to avoid future disappointments. There seems to be a lot of broken logic involved with those who are "upset". Another fault lies within the developers who aren't properly optimizing the games for these new systems.

I expected that this gen delivered the same as every other gen has delivered.

The Ps4/XboxOne weren't any more affordable on launch they just were just outdated because MS/SONY wanted even more cash.

The XboxOne was $500 that's just as much as the Xbox360 but MS put a Kincet in the box when at that price they could have put in a GTX770 instead.

And the Ps3 40GB version was the same price as the Ps4 is now and had a freaking GT7800 in comparison that's like the Ps4 having a GTX780. 

The only one that is getting good value is SONY and MS not the gamer that got until this gen the hardware subsidized by the higher software cost.

Now console gamers get weak hardware with expensive software and a subscription on top. 

[tangra]

PC games require more RAM because they end up having better view distances and larger textures ... This guy must be in QA and not in dev, because he does not seam to understand how ram usage works in games.  

[linuxfan66]

Look ultimately i cannot defend some of the tactics in consoles this gen.(better gpus well an truly could have been implemented.) However even they had 4k would have been impossible without a sheer noisy power hog.  1080p would have faded within years . and memory would have still become a problem even if they had more. Consoles now are alot harder to make then they used to. Most consoles are sold at a loss as is now. with the hope the sold games will pay for it. Consoles are not pcs and shouldnt be judged as such. as an owner of a ps4 becaues i have no interest in specialist gaming builds for myself, i dont mind as long i can put in my game (online or disc) and play(and not have unbearably glitchy). Honestly at this point i do not care about graphics upgrades anymore as i personally find the graphics improvesments meh and overally uninteresting and would take uinque visual styles over more hyper realistc dark and gritty graphics again. Ultimately, if it stayed at 360/ps3 levels i couldnt care less..

Before anyone brings it up 60/30 divide i cant see the difference for whatever reason and as long as its above 30 and stable i dont care(i do not excuse anyone for the cinematic excuse that said.)

[TwistedDictator]

Heavily modded Cities Skylines with a 200k+ city goes above 4GB RAM. I'll see a CPU bottle-neck before RAM in that game, but high-res textures coupled with high population could well see it using a lot of RAM (as well as VRAM).

AMD provided a chip to the specifications that Sony and Microsoft demanded. Blame the console manufacturers for asking for a lower-powered chip, not the company that made it.

 

Sadly I own Skylines and have not even installed any mods, but I would love too, any good places for mods?

[Fetzie]

Sadly I own Skylines and have not even installed any mods, but I would love too, any good places for mods?

Steam workshop. Just browse it, there are thousands

[Zah]

I have a question:  The 360 and PS3 both launched in, what, 2003?  With 512 megs of RAM?  How much did an average gaming PC have at that time?

 

Because I think it might be around 1 gig.  By the end of this genertion, we may be using even more RAM if the pattern holds true.

[Dabombinable]

I have a question:  The 360 and PS3 both launched in, what, 2003?  With 512 megs of RAM?  How much did an average gaming PC have at that time?

 

Because I think it might be around 1 gig.  By the end of this genertion, we may be using even more RAM if the pattern holds true.

Around 2006-2007 actually. Around 2003 512MB was the norm for computers.

[Opcode]

I have a question:  The 360 and PS3 both launched in, what, 2003?  With 512 megs of RAM?  How much did an average gaming PC have at that time?

 

Because I think it might be around 1 gig.  By the end of this genertion, we may be using even more RAM if the pattern holds true.

Memory consumption will only continue to grow. I remember back in the days when they said 64kb was enough.  :rolleyes:

 

As consoles progress to faster hardware so will the need for higher memory density. It wont take too long before 1080p becomes the new 800x600 and 4k to become the new 1080p. Once that happens 8GB of combined memory will not be enough as you'll need at least 8GB dedicated to the GPU. If we look at high resolution benchmarks gaming tanks with just 4GB of VRAM. Of course this wont be for a long while but still serves as a poc that you can never have enough memory.

 

 

[Dabombinable]

Memory consumption will only continue to grow. I remember back in the days when they said 64kb was enough.  :rolleyes:

 

As consoles progress to faster hardware so will the need for higher memory density. It wont take too long before 1080p becomes the new 800x600 and 4k to become the new 1080p. Once that happens 8GB of combined memory will not be enough as you'll need at least 8GB dedicated to the GPU. If we look at high resolution benchmarks gaming tanks with just 4GB of VRAM. Of course this wont be for a long while but still serves as a poc that you can never have enough memory.

 

 

TBH if you don't notice too much of a difference when you try a monitor with a higher resolution then there is no point in upgrading. Just go for the highest refresh rate possible.

[CTR640]

Ex-employee Naughty Dogs claiming RAM is not an issue. Lel, I wonder if he got fired if he was the one saying you can download RAM.

[Opcode]

TBH if you don't notice too much of a difference when you try a monitor with a higher resolution then there is no point in upgrading. Just go for the highest refresh rate possible.

For right now certainly although 1440p is starting becoming the gold standard for gaming in the industry today. That just goes to show you that even right now 1080p is becoming old news. People don't just buy these displays just because they're scared of seeing pixels, but also since a higher resolution scales down game content it gives you far more screen real estate ingame. Which is a huge advantage in trigger happy games (you can see more of whats going on around you at any given time). I give it another 10-20 years tops and 1440p will become the 1080p of today and 2160p will become the new 1440p. That's when I personally will be making the upgrade to 1440p as it becomes cheaper and easier to obtain. By then we'll have TITAN Q's and R9 690X with 10,000 SP's.  

[Dabombinable]

For right now certainly although 1440p is starting becoming the gold standard for gaming in the industry today. That just goes to show you that even right now 1080p is becoming old news. People don't just buy these displays just because they're scared of seeing pixels, but also since a higher resolution scales down game content it gives you far more screen real estate ingame. Which is a huge advantage in trigger happy games (you can see more of whats going on around you at any given time). I give it another 10-20 years tops and 1440p will become the 1080p of today and 2160p will become the new 1440p. That's when I personally will be making the upgrade to 1440p as it becomes cheaper and easier to obtain. 

If I wanted to upgrade to 1440p I'd need to budget for it all over again. And since I only went from 1024x768 at the start of last year I can't justify another new screen for several years. As it is I've still got 2 15" CRT and LCD monitors that can be used for multiple displays, though the CRT makes the colour of the 2 LCD screens look off, and the 15" LCD makes the refresh rate of the CRT and 1080p screen just look bad.

[Echodamus]

Doesn't the XBOne have some super fast memory thats off the die but too small to be useful? I vaguely remembering hearing something about that. So isn't that still part of the issue?

[Tocsin_786]

File that statement under "no duh". RAM was never an issue for these consoles. It was the weak GPUs (comparatively speaking, console hardware is still pretty good compared to what an average gamer actually uses, not the "DERP 290S FOR LYFE BRO" attitude that PC Mustard Rats have). 

Weak GPUs because MS, Sony and Nintendo decided to be cheap and not take hardware losses. To be fair, only MS could honestly sustain hardware loss. Sony and Nintendo don't have billions a year to blow on gaming for fun. 

lol PC mustard rats. 

[Zah]

If I wanted to upgrade to 1440p I'd need to budget for it all over again. And since I only went from 1024x768 at the start of last year I can't justify another new screen for several years. As it is I've still got 2 15" CRT and LCD monitors that can be used for multiple displays, though the CRT makes the colour of the 2 LCD screens look off, and the 15" LCD makes the refresh rate of the CRT and 1080p screen just look bad.

Also it's 300 dollars for an okay 1440p monitor, and to get one capable of driving 144hz, you need lots of power under your hood, and more money for that monitor compared to 1080p.

 

We're almost there though.  I personally hope to upgrade to 1440p by the end of this year or next.