Do you think that Nvidia should recall 970's? (and Nvidia's response)

[BatJoe]

That is indeed what he said.

 

What has been proven in tests is that the card absolutely shits out once it passes 3.5GB of VRAM usage. Like becomes borderline unplayable, according to videos I've seen.

 

If deemed accessible by Windows, specifically

[Whorax]

Could you possibly link said videos. Not necessarily for me but just for members of this conversation in general. 

Here ya go. The over 3.5GB part starts about halfway through.

[Enderman]

While I do believe it is blown out of proportion, I am however worried about how the card might handle the last 500MB of RAM. I'm helping a friend build/plan a rig, and I don;t want to be in a situation when the game starts tanking playing future games and having to troubleshoot/give an answer to him. Nvidia should have sold it as a 3.5GB card and not the mythical 4GB which everyone says is necessary for >1080/4K gaming. I'm stretching it a bit, but Nvidia might have been trying to use this 4GB as a selling point in that case yea, bad business practice.

It handles the last 500mb of ram better than if there werent 500mb of ram

 

When a GPU runs out of vram your frames tank to near 0 fps

When the 970 goes over 3.5GB (in some cases, not all people have this issue) then the frames drop pretty bad, to "unplayable" from what I understand, but still more than if there werent those 500MB of vram

[Najuno]

I hope that everybody that bought a GTX970 in some way gets reimbursed by nVidia with a GTX980 2way SLI... that would only be fair! And gets the next Titan for free with a birthday cake!

[Patrick Swayze]

You didnt buy it because it had 64 ROPs.

You didnt buy it because it had 2048MB cache.

You didnt buy it because it had 4GB of memory.

 

You bought it because it performs exceptionally well in games at a very low price.

You bought it because it works.

You bought it because thousands of others recommend it.

 

If none of these stupid articles had existed everyone would be having a great time with their new 970 unaware of any issues.

The fact that you didn't even realize that it had 3.5GB of memory, or only 56 ROPs, or whatever when you bought it shows that the specs are INSIGNIFICANT

 

What matters is the performance, and that is what you paid for. And the performance is excellent.

 

 

It's false advertising.

 

People DO use product specs to help make their purchasing decisions. That's why consumer protection laws make it illegal.

[Biggerboot]

Hello LTT forums.

Personally I'm sort of in the middle on this issue.  I think it would be fair of Nvidia to do something for registered 970 owners like a free game on steam or something that won't break the bank too much.  I don't think it'll be necessary for them to recall the card or offer a full refund, because the few who are in the know will contact Nvidia themselves - and they'll give in to the customer 99 percent of the time (in those cases you'll either get a refund or possibly an exchange for a 980).  Chances are though, those online who are actually threatening of doing said thing don't follow up on the threat. 

 

From what I know about the industry, the suggest retail price of the card more or less comes from the engineering side of things, and this isn't really an issue with that end.  You didn't overpay for the card that you got (which gets 90 percent of the performance of a 980 for roughly 2/3 the cost) even if you were misinformed somewhat (but something like RAM has been exaggerated in hardware for ages, and I think it has laws that protect it).  You should see how badly OEM's lie about their PC specs.

 

But yes, the marketing end screwed up, so PR does need to show a little green to keep the consumer's trust.  I think if Nvidia offers a modest reimbursement and apology, that will be enough.  The few who actually value this sort of detail (those beyond just gamers) will be in few enough number for Nvidia, so they shouldn't feel the sting.

[Najuno]

It's false advertising. People DO use product specs to help make their purchasing decisions.

In fact most people buy something nowadays based on what people tell them on YouTube and what they get recommended in hardware forums.

[I/O]

People and company's lie everyday. So what? Should we all be entitled to reduced rates on Internet if we don't get the speed we paid for?

Um fuck ya. When corporations get caught funking up they end up having to pay back what they stole in the end. Take Intel Pentium IV debacle for an example.

[chopdok]

And then I can expect the drivers to suck once their next 70-series card is a rebranded 980 though and there is no need to optimize for the 3.5+0.5 pools anymore. Yeah, AMD has to be loving this month of failure from Nvidia.

I can already see the advetisement for their R9 380X  - "Our GPU delivers unrivaled performance in all modern games, and features 6 GB of continuous, uniform memory with every GB at the same bandwith."

[Enderman]

It's false advertising. People DO use product specs to help make their purchasing decisions.

Using specs to make purchasing decisions is stupid because then someone would by a 780 which has more cores than a 970 thinking it performs better when it doesnt.

 

You're supposed to base purchasing decisions on reviews, performance, and features.

[Opask]

Here ya go. The over 3.5GB part starts about halfway through.

This is where my ignorance comes in. How exactly are they pushing it over 3.5gigs? Is it through tessellation because I thought that was cpu based? I am defenitely seeing the performance drop but honestly I think there are other factors at that point. When you hit that vram usage the rest of your system has to be able to handle it.

[Whorax]

This is where my ignorance comes in. How exactly are they pushing it over 3.5gigs? Is it through tessellation because I thought that was cpu based? I am defenitely seeing the performance drop but honestly I think there are other factors at that point. When you hit that vram usage the rest of your system has to be able to handle it.

That, I could not tell you. Lol

[chopdok]

Using specs to make purchasing decisions is stupid because then someone would by a 780 which has more cores than a 970 thinking it performs better when it doesnt.

 

You're supposed to base purchasing decisions on reviews, performance, and features.

So nice of you to tell us how to purchase a GPU. What I would be doing without advice. On a serious note, people who do understand how to pick a proper GPU, use both. They use the benchmarks to see how the GPU performs now, and they look at SMM : ROP ratio, fillrates and peak memory bandwith to gauge how much time they will have until they need to upgrade.

 

And by the way hardware specs such as memory bandwith fall into the "features" category.

[Briggsy]

Here ya go. The over 3.5GB part starts about halfway through.

 

damn that's a lot of frame drops on the second half of the video. Probably not detectable by the human eye if the framerate is high enough, but holy giraffe tits batman.

 

the stuttering is so obvious though its not funny.

[Najuno]

Using specs to make purchasing decisions is stupid because then someone would by a 780 which has more cores than a 970 thinking it performs better when it doesnt.

 

You're supposed to base purchasing decisions on reviews, performance, and features.

Doesn´t apply right now anymore because nVidia are really bad guys and they shoud be punished by closing their facilities for good . *careful irony*

 

In all seriousness I understand people feel kind of shitty but like I wrote before 99% of all ragers would have fought with their lifes 2 weeks ago for that card for its outstanding performance! And the AMD fan boys put even more gas into this fire as if AMD would have never screwed up...

[SteveGrabowski]

Using specs to make purchasing decisions is stupid because then someone would by a 780 which has more cores than a 970 thinking it performs better when it doesnt.

 

You're supposed to base purchasing decisions on reviews, performance, and features.

 

VRAM is an important spec to me. Nowhere was it common knowledge until today that they gimped 1/8 of the VRAM to such a slow speed.

[I/O]

damn that's a lot of frame drops on the second half of the video. Probably not detectable by the human eye if the framerate is high enough, but holy giraffe tits batman.

What you did not see the whole monitor go int a rainbow colored spaz LOL ?

[Enderman]

So nice of you to tell us how to purchase a GPU. What I would be doing without advice. On a serious note, people who do understand how to pick a proper GPU, use both. They use the benchmarks to see how the GPU performs now, and they look at SMM : ROP ratio, fillrates and peak memory bandwith to gauge how much time they will have until they need to upgrade.

 

And by the way hardware specs such as memory bandwith fall into the "features" category.

you realize that all those things that you listed dont mean anything to the regular consumer, right?

Just because the 970 has 15% more ROPs than a 700 card doesnt mean it performs 15% better

 

 

Also the 780 and 780ti have the same number of ROPs does that mean they perform the same? NOPE

And they have the same vram does that mean they perform the same? NOPE

 

In fact since there are so many variables in the engineering of a GPU it is not an accurate measurement of value to count up the ROPs or cores or whatever the specs say because real world performance will always be different.

And what people care about is the performance, not a number on a specs sheet. This is excluding OP obviously, because he said he doesnt care about performance, just the specs.

[Prolesious]

Well, my 970 performs quiet well. but i don't max my ram out due to 1080p game play.   I'm satisfied with my card.   I will not make a huge fuss, but I'd be really happy if they said, fine, here is a game. 

[dmvdberg]

11 pages already.... with my broken health and lack of sleep quite a handfull ^^;

 

On topic though. Something I already mentioned on a dutch tech new site (Tweakers.net) is the 2nd hand value.
Personally I had expected a lot more people to dump their GTX970 already. Which would have put a lot more pressure on Nvidia.

 

If this issue (and its a biggie this time) cant fe fixed with firmware then the green team now has a bulk of rather useless cards whom no one will buy secondhand. Putting a lot of owners in a tight spot since a lot of us cycle cards every 3 years and hope to make a buck out of the old one. 
Hopefully Nvidia has the big ones down its pants to man up and RMA every single 970 out there. Then again. If the card had launched as a 3Gb model it would have been even better!

Think about it.
GTX980 4Gb 
GTX970 3Gb / 3,5Gb
GTX960 2Gb

(near) Perfect scaling in terms of price and performance. If the issue isn't fixed this Q1 though.... the Red team's Q2 launch of the R9 3** series will greatly impact the number of 'loyal' Nivdia fans who are willing to switch due to "poor" performing GTX970's and bad press.

[Najuno]

you realize that all those things that you listed dont mean anything to the regular consumer, right?

Just because the 970 has 15% more ROPs than a 700 card doesnt mean it performs 15% better

 

 

Also the 780 and 780ti have the same number of ROPs does that mean they perform the same? NOPE

And they have the same vram does that mean they perform the same? NOPE

 

In fact since there are so many variables in the engineering of a GPU it is not an accurate measurement of value to count up the ROPs or cores or whatever the specs say because real world performance will always be different.

And what people care about is the performance, not a number on a specs sheet. This is excluding OP obviously, because he said he doesnt care about performance, just the specs.

I don´t think people are open right now to a normal point of view. Seems like they just like to be a part of any kind of shit storm. They wonder why nVidia closed the threads in their official forums.

Well... regarding what people posted there I´m actually a bit surprised that it took them so long... life threats, swearing, cursing and death wishes all over the place... how mature is this sort of behaviour over a GPU?! I wonder what the vast majority of these people do when they get a real problem in their life...

[Enderman]

I don´t think people are open right now to a normal point of view. Seems like they just like to be a part of any kind of shit storm. They wonder why nVidia closed the threads in their official forums.

Well... regarding what people posted there I´m actually a bit surprised that it took them so long... life threats, swearing, cursing and death wishes all over the place... how mature is this sort of behaviour over a GPU?! I wonder what the vast majority of these people do when they get a real problem in their life...

Yeah I agree, it a huge overreaction over an issue that doesnt affect or change anything...

Its causing people to argue irrationally, and as you can see some are going as far as saying "I don't care about the performance, I care about specs. I want the specs I paid for."

[Opask]

That, I could not tell you. Lol

Alright fair enough. I'm just try to get some constructive knowledge in this thread. So many people are just spewing stuff out of their ass.

[d3sl91]

I don´t think people are open right now to a normal point of view. Seems like they just like to be a part of any kind of shit storm. They wonder why nVidia closed the threads in their official forums.

Well... regarding what people posted there I´m actually a bit surprised that it took them so long... life threats, swearing, cursing and death wishes all over the place... how mature is this sort of behaviour over a GPU?! I wonder what the vast majority of these people do when they get a real problem in their life...

Everyone wants blood. And like to follow the herd. 

[Ex14]

It handles the last 500mb of ram better than if there werent 500mb of ram

 

When a GPU runs out of vram your frames tank to near 0 fps

When the 970 goes over 3.5GB (in some cases, not all people have this issue) then the frames drop pretty bad, to "unplayable" from what I understand, but still more than if there werent those 500MB of vram

I get where you;re coming from, and it would be swell if it's just FPS drops. if it stutters and have wierd glitches like what has been shown now thats a no go at all. It's currently debatable as to whether this is a widespread/common issue, but as this is a recommendation to a friend who barely knows nuts, I have to be really careful.

Actually if it were for my own rig, i would think twice too. After all the main benefits of Nvidia cards just so happens to make use of vram in that case a 290X would be a better choice for me with it being 80  (singapore) dollars cheaper. 

TL;DR I'nm not saying this is a major issue, but honestly it just seems nvidia wanted to hit that 4GB mark to entice a certain niche of users (4k and ppl who want to future proof)