Do you think that Nvidia should recall 970's? (and Nvidia's response)

[SteveGrabowski]

I do think that if you got enough people to sign a petition, I'm talking tens of thousands, then contact a lawyer, this could get some traction.  I do this at the very least a credit towards your next Nvidia card should be given to those who bought a 970.  As a minimum.  This is a very fair compromise in my opinion.  Nvidia saves face by offering their consumers a reasonable remedy, and it entices customers to buy another GPU from Nvidia down the road. 

 

That would be completely unacceptable to me, and it would never get me to shut up about being lied to about the GTX 970. I won't buy another Nvidia card, at least for a long time after this. I'd rather have a free game or a $10 prepaid Visa card than credit towards a next overpriced Nvidia GPU.

[Najuno]

It's a reference to Linus Torvalds talking about how Nvidia was the worst company he has ever worked with, which is why I have Linus' picture with it.

 

I know who the guy is but still I find it inapropriate to use this sort of language in a member title especially when that person is a well known member of the LTT community. We have to make sure that we hold up a certain standard and don´t fall into other forums lethargy.

[Najuno]

Lol. Okay dude I love you too. 

Just report him. He should have enough wanring points to get banned soon.

[I/O]

I love you!

Right back at chy. nvidia ,,, not so much !

[Faceman]

That would be completely unacceptable to me, and it would never get me to shut up about being lied to about the GTX 970. I won't buy another Nvidia card, at least for a long time after this. I'd rather have a free game or a $10 check than credit towards a next overpriced Nvidia GPU.

Hypothetically you are given the choice:

 

$10 Gift Card to do with as you please, or $25 Off your next Nvidia GPU purchase?

 

I'm just spit balling here.  If I worked for Nvidia's PR team, this would be my immediate course of action.  A mea culpa, and offer a discount towards your next purchase with us, that never expires.

[TroubleKlef]

I don't think Nvidia should recall 970s but they should definitely compensate early adopters in some monetary way. 

[I/O]

Just report him. He should have enough wanring points to get banned soon.

Love ya to. Prob syop back seat modding would benefit us all. Sorry I am ragging on nvidia cause they fucked up hardcore.

[SteveGrabowski]

Hypothetically you are given the choice:

 

$10 Gift Card to do with as you please, or $25 Off your next Nvidia GPU purchase?

 

I'm just spit balling here.  If I worked for Nvidia's PR team, this would be my immediate course of action.  A mea culpa, and offer a discount towards your next purchase with us, that never expires.

 

I'd take a $10 Visa prepaid card over a $100 coupon for my next Nvidia GPU purchase.

[Enderman]

So fuck the specs because the "average" customer doesn't know what they mean?

Is a serious question.

I still want to know why you defend that position. I take the "I want what I paid for" because i'm a customer, and I think that everyone wants what they pay for as customers.

But hey, don't listen to me because i'm going far "arguing irrationally"

 

 

If it met the advertised specs, it would perform better.

 

Anyway the issue is not about how the card performs, it is about how it was advertised. It was advertised falsely.

 

The only reason to recall a product, which is what this topic is about, is if it does not perform up to standards. aka it performs like crap, has a safety issue, or stops working.

False advertising or not, the card performs like everyone expected because people look at benchmarks and listen to what other people say.

You don't look at specs and say "hey this GPU has 64 ROPs and 4GB of vram therefore I will get X fps in my games, I will buy it"

 

In fact the GPU you bought performs exactly like you expected from the benchmarks, because the GPU you bought is the GPU that was used in the benchmarks.

 

 

If the benchmarks for the 970 were done with the proper specs and people bought 970s with the false specs, then I can understand why people would be upset, because they expected to get the performance of the advertised specs.

 

But that is NOT the case here. People bought 56 ROP 970s based on the benchmarks of 56ROP 970s

It makes no difference if it said 5, 50, or 500 ROPs in the specs, because you can look at benchmarks and decide if the GPU has the performance you want. If it does, then you buy it. If it does not, then you dont buy it. That's how simple it is.

 

Again back to the fact that NOBODY noticed this until it was pointed out on a news site, shows you that the 970 performs as well as everyone expected despite not having the advertised hardware.

Complain all you want, but trying to get a refund is stupid if you were satisfied with your 970. Its not like you can get another GPU for the same price that performs any better.

[Faceman]

I'd take a $10 Visa prepaid card over a $100 coupon for my next Nvidia GPU purchase.

I feel like you're thinking with your emotions after feeling ripped off, and that is understandable, but I still think the majority of the people would take that $25 credit towards their next Nvidia GPU, most certainly $100.

[SteveGrabowski]

I feel like you're thinking with your emotions after feeling ripped off, and that is understandable, but I still think the majority of the people would take that $25 credit towards their next Nvidia GPU, most certainly $100.

 

I wouldn't want a coupon. I don't expect to buy another GPU anytime soon. Well, unless Nvidia decides to offer refunds so that I can buy a 290x. I don't want a coupon for three to five years down the road that even in the best case I might not want to use if AMD has something better. It's not like we're talking CPUs where AMD has nothing comparable to Intel. AMD has better GPUs at every price point below $550. The only coupon I'd be remotely interested in is a drastically reduced upgrade to a 980.

[chopdok]

No it won't. It's not broken. 

 

It will work exactly how it works now. Exactly how thhe benchmarks say, exactly how it was designed. You can't tell the future for computer parts. Just because something has 3, 4, 5, 6GB of ram doesnt mean anything. 

But it does. People who bought GTX 670 are already beginning to consider upgrading, some already upgraded to GTX 970 - while on the other hand, those who bought 7950 are quite happy. GTX 670 doesnt perform nearly as good in more recent titles as 7950, it takes much larger performance dives. There is always a chance of getting it wrong, but many people, myself included, been gaming and buying GPU's for more than 10 years. I know to watch trends, and to at least try to predict what direction the games will go for the next 2-3 years. Of course, no sane person will try to tell how everything will look in 5 years or more. But 2-3 next years are easy. Many titles have already been announced. I already know the main new features of DirectX 12, and what these features will focus on, and since DirectX is the thing that defines the direction of game development, as far as graphics are concerned, then its not that difficult to get it at least partially right.

[Faceman]

I wouldn't want a coupon. I don't expect to buy another GPU anytime soon. Well, unless Nvidia decides to offer refunds so that I can buy a 290x. I don't want a coupon for three to five years down the road that even in the best case I might not want to use if AMD has something better. It's not like we're talking CPUs where AMD has nothing comparable to Intel. AMD has better GPUs at every price point below $550.

From Nvidia's point of view:

 

That is exactly why they should offer a credit to 970 owners.  To save face, and to try and retain market share.

 

I can see this from a lot of different perspectives, right now I'm playing the part of Nvidia's PR team because that is what my professional background is in.

[Doughnutnator]

The only reason to recall a product, which is what this topic is about, is if it does not perform up to standards. aka it performs like crap, has a safety issue, or stops working.

False advertising or not, the card performs like everyone expected because people look at benchmarks and listen to what other people say.

You don't look at specs and say "hey this GPU has 64 ROPs and 4GB of vram therefore I will get X fps in my games, I will buy it"

In fact the GPU you bought performs exactly like you expected from the benchmarks, because the GPU you bought is the GPU that was used in the benchmarks.

If the benchmarks for the 970 were done with the proper specs and people bought 970s with the false specs, then I can understand why people would be upset, because they expected to get the performance of the advertised specs.

But that is NOT the case here. People bought 56 ROP 970s based on the benchmarks of 56ROP 970s

It makes no difference if it said 5, 50, or 500 ROPs in the specs, because you can look at benchmarks and decide if the GPU has the performance you want. If it does, then you buy it. If it does not, then you dont buy it. That's how simple it is.

Again back to the fact that NOBODY noticed this until it was pointed out on a news site, shows you that the 970 performs as well as everyone expected despite not having the advertised hardware.

Complain all you want, but trying to get a refund is stupid if you were satisfied with your 970. Its not like you can get another GPU for the same price that performs any better.

Then I screwed up with the "recall" thing. I should've put something as "compensation" or stuff. Sorry, English isn't my native language

You're right there, Nvidia is not going to do anything, they admitted the issue, tried to cover it and boom.

I don't want a recall, refund or stuff. At least I want Nvidia to explain what really happened, because I don't trust the "well, we didn't noticed in 3+ months" thing.

Personally this is the last time I buy something at launch. You're right, the card is good for the price but I still don't like the dirty move. Do they think that customers are idiots?

Sad that customers had to find the VRAM issue. I hope that Nvidia says something about this in this week.

The VRAM thing was kinda weird, first they said "yes, it's an issue, we're working on it, send us proofs" and later they say that "it's working as intended"...

[Briggsy]

I'd take a $10 Visa prepaid card over a $100 coupon for my next Nvidia GPU purchase.

 

It really is too bad that the gaming graphics card market is controlled by a duopoly. Same goes for desktop CPU's. To get into the processor game now is next to impossible for any company, which makes me sad thinking about it.

[Enderman]

Then I screwed up with the "recall" thing. I should've put something as "compensation" or stuff. Sorry, English isn't my native language

You're right there, Nvidia is not going to do anything, they admitted the issue, tried to cover it and boom.

I don't want a recall, refund or stuff. At least I want Nvidia to explain what really happened, because I don't trust the "well, we didn't noticed in 3+ months" thing.

Personally this is the last time I buy something at launch. You're right, the card is good for the price but I still don't like the dirty move. Do they think that customers are idiots?

Sad that customers had to find the VRAM issue. I hope that Nvidia says something about this in this week.

The VRAM thing was kinda weird, first they said "yes, it's an issue, we're working on it, send us proofs" and later they say that "it's working as intended"...

That's a much better statement. Some sort of compensation, apology, or acknowledgement would be nice for all the customers.

The 970 is still a great GPU, and one of the best, so people should not have to return it just because of non-performance-affecting advertising.

 

Hopefully nvidia can make it up in some way.

 

The vram thing idk whats up with that, theres way too much information going around to find the facts. Time will tell.

[SteveGrabowski]

From Nvidia's point of view:

 

That is exactly why they should offer a credit to 970 owners.  To save face, and to try and retain market share.

 

I can see this from a lot of different perspectives, right now I'm playing the part of Nvidia's PR team because that is what my professional background is in.

 

Nvidia's not going to lose market share. If they couldn't lose it with 2GB gimped cards in the 700 series when AMD offered better 3GB cards with great game bundles why would they lose it now? AMD has a history of horrible marketing. They couldn't capitalize in the NetBurst era either when their CPUs destroyed Intel's in not only price to performance but flat out performance.

[Grrizz]

Meh, in my country you could get your money back if you wanted due to the consumer guarantees act and while its definitely egg on Nvidias face I bought a 970 because I wanted the performance of a 970 at the price point of a 970... I still have that...

[Deletive]

I wonder if this was also a problem between GM107. Or if it just came up with 2nd generation maxwell.
 

 

Then I screwed up with the "recall" thing. I should've put something as "compensation" or stuff. Sorry, English isn't my native language

You're right there, Nvidia is not going to do anything, they admitted the issue, tried to cover it and boom.

I don't want a recall, refund or stuff. At least I want Nvidia to explain what really happened, because I don't trust the "well, we didn't noticed in 3+ months" thing.

Personally this is the last time I buy something at launch. You're right, the card is good for the price but I still don't like the dirty move. Do they think that customers are idiots?

Sad that customers had to find the VRAM issue. I hope that Nvidia says something about this in this week.

The VRAM thing was kinda weird, first they said "yes, it's an issue, we're working on it, send us proofs" and later they say that "it's working as intended"...

 

Well considering we're dealing with nanometers, It's not something that is easily noticable. I feel people are just being a little hard on nVidia. 

 

It really is too bad that the gaming graphics card market is controlled by a duopoly. Same goes for desktop CPU's. To get into the processor game now is next to impossible for any company, which makes me sad thinking about it.

Well x64 is controlled by AMD and x86 is pretty much controlled by whoever. It's not GPU market is lacking, Just there isn't much interest in the consumer market. Intel is the only one that can enter it and they dont' seem interested

 

It's a reference to Linus Torvalds talking about how Nvidia was the worst company he has ever worked with, which is why I have Linus' picture with it.
 

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand and this is what I would consider shit posting.

4. Spamming
We do not want spam on Linus Tech Tips. There are certain sections of the forum designated for "off topic" and "general" posting of posts that may not fall into one of the already laid out sections of the forum. At all times though, this is a tech centered and focused forum. That being said, spam includes, but is not limited to the following:

• Excessive/excessively off-topic threads or posts.
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It's really annoying. 

I don't think Nvidia should recall 970s but they should definitely compensate early adopters in some monetary way.

I think this is fair.

[Faceman]

Nvidia's not going to lose market share. If they couldn't lose it with 2GB gimped cards in the 700 series when AMD offered better 3GB cards why would they lose it now? AMD has a history of horrible marketing. They couldn't capitalize in the NetBurst era either when their CPUs destroyed Intel's in not only price to performance but flat out performance.

Based on the rumors, the AMD 300 series, and Zen are looking to be pretty formidable. 

[SteveGrabowski]

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand and this is what I would consider shit posting.

4. Spamming

We do not want spam on Linus Tech Tips. There are certain sections of the forum designated for "off topic" and "general" posting of posts that may not fall into one of the already laid out sections of the forum. At all times though, this is a tech centered and focused forum. That being said, spam includes, but is not limited to the following:

• Excessive/excessively off-topic threads or posts.
• Post-Count farming.
• Do not intentionally derail threads. Off-Topic is there for a reason.
• The posting solely of memes or similar images without contributing to the discussion, memes can be funny and applicable but if it is completely unrelated it is spam.
• Posting any of the above will result in your post being deleted and your account being infracted or worse, suspended.

   

 

It's really annoying. 

 

Someone made a comment about my user title, so I explained it.

[SteveGrabowski]

Based on the rumors, the AMD 300 series, and Zen are looking to be pretty formidable. 

 

But the 200 series was pretty formidable too and look what it got them. Nvidia's going to be fine.

[Faceman]

But the 200 series was pretty formidable too and look what it got them. Nvidia's going to be fine.

Of course they will be fine, they don't have to do anything, it would be nice of them to, and it would really endear consumers towards them as a brand.

 

What a company should do, and what a company does do. Hah... right.

[chopdok]

The only reason to recall a product, which is what this topic is about, is if it does not perform up to standards. aka it performs like crap, has a safety issue, or stops working.

False advertising or not, the card performs like everyone expected because people look at benchmarks and listen to what other people say.

You don't look at specs and say "hey this GPU has 64 ROPs and 4GB of vram therefore I will get X fps in my games, I will buy it"

 

In fact the GPU you bought performs exactly like you expected from the benchmarks, because the GPU you bought is the GPU that was used in the benchmarks.

 

 

If the benchmarks for the 970 were done with the proper specs and people bought 970s with the false specs, then I can understand why people would be upset, because they expected to get the performance of the advertised specs.

 

But that is NOT the case here. People bought 56 ROP 970s based on the benchmarks of 56ROP 970s

It makes no difference if it said 5, 50, or 500 ROPs in the specs, because you can look at benchmarks and decide if the GPU has the performance you want. If it does, then you buy it. If it does not, then you dont buy it. That's how simple it is.

 

Again back to the fact that NOBODY noticed this until it was pointed out on a news site, shows you that the 970 performs as well as everyone expected despite not having the advertised hardware.

Complain all you want, but trying to get a refund is stupid if you were satisfied with your 970. Its not like you can get another GPU for the same price that performs any better.

I look at both. I bought the card on the premise of full speed 4 GB RAM, 64 ROP and 2 MB cache. As well as the benchmarks. I considered both in my choice. If I knew about this before, I would have bought a R9 290, which may be slightly slower, but potentially will not take a nosedive. I have my reasons, and I deserve to recieve accurate information, and I will not tolerate "this is unimportant" from anyone. Who are you to tell what is and isn't important for other people? I have no problems with people who don't care about ROPs and VRAM, and only look at benchmarks. But by what right have you decided that your way of picking a GPU is the only right and correct, and that everyone follows your way?

[SteveGrabowski]

Of course they will be fine, they don't have to do anything, it would be nice of them to, and it would really endear consumers towards them as a brand.

 

What a company should do, and what a company does do. Hah... right.

 

I don't know. I can't see a $25 credit towards a future purchase endearing anyone to the brand who feels cheated right now. It would be great for the segment of the crowd here who thinks Nvidia did no wrong though. Although it's not like these guys weren't buying more Nvidia GPUs anyways at full price.