Verizon: We Can Basically Charge Netflix For Peering Forever And There’s Nothing The FCC Can Do To Stop It

[patrickjp93]

He who writes the cheques writes the rules,  the company with the most money will win becasue they can afford both lawyers and to pay the congressman.   It's not a free market that causes some of these monopolies, it laws that disallow competition that cause these monopolies.

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/09/att-cities-shouldnt-offer-broadband-where-private-isps-already-do-or-might-later/

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/isp-lobby-has-already-won-limits-on-public-broadband-in-20-states/

http://www.wired.com/2011/05/nc-gov-anti-muni-broadband/

 

It doesn't matter who's running the company, a free market allows everyone to offer services. and the best service wins, not the service that can remove competition through legal action.

No, a free market allows whoever has the money to start a business offer services. This is why ISPs have no competition. The startup costs are obscene, and it's not laws that make this so.

[patrickjp93]

I'm sorry but your triple negative makes zero sense to me at all? Plus I don't understand its relevance either, I didnt mention free economies?

Its likely just my inability to understand but could you explain what you meant please

It's a double, not a triple. Anyone who doesn't understand free markets breed monopolies has no understanding of economics nor logistics nor how a healthy wallet ensures easier survival in rough times.

 

The ISPs operate under very free markets. The problem is upstart costs due to having to rent/buy digging equipment, get fiber or copper cable sleeved very well to handle the elements/shifts in the ground, get networking equipment, system admins, etc.. It's not like a mail delivery service which is easy to start up at low costs.

[Techhog]

I would drop Optimum for Google in a heart-beat.

come to New York, pretty please?

You say this in a thread about Netflix, when Optimum is like the only one who took Netflix's free caching system offer and even uses it as a selling point. That just seems weird to me.

[FakezZ]

the more news i hear about ISPs, the more I'm ok with letting Google see all my internet traffic, because then at least i would have fiber.

Yeah like they don't see your internet traffic anyway I mean if they are so evil that they admit to being such dicks in public, then imagine what they're doing in secret

[mr moose]

No, a free market allows whoever has the money to start a business offer services. This is why ISPs have no competition. The startup costs are obscene, and it's not laws that make this so.

 

BS, they have no competition because their lawyers fight until any new starter has no money left and is bankrupt:

 

 

"I have never seen an independent… start up without having to fight the incumbent legally," Patten told Ars. "The incumbents are notorious for frivolous delay lawsuits. They know perfectly well they're frivolous, but it's a delay tactic. They have an army of lawyers and a budget to support lawsuits the size of Godzilla. That's one of their tactics, it always has been. It probably will continue to be so for many years yet to come."

That's what happened to fiber ISP Falcon Broadband in Colorado Springs. The company started in 2003, competing against Adelphia, Falcon's former engineering chief Michael Wagner said.

"They did not want anybody else to come into their territory because they wanted to have that monopoly with their franchise agreements," Wagner told Ars. "What they started to do was file frivolous lawsuit after lawsuit to try to basically bankrupt us so we couldn't compete."

Wagner recalled about 10 lawsuits from Adephia, and later Comcast, who took over Adelphia's operations in 2006.

"We've had lawsuits that we were tampering with their equipment; we had lawsuits that we were violating different FCC requirements for the cable plants," he said. "We had lawsuits that we were not honoring different content contractual obligations and that we were doing unfair practices, basically, in the franchising cable agreements."

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/04/one-big-reason-we-lack-internet-competition-starting-an-isp-is-really-hard/

[holytoledo]

BS, they have no competition because their lawyers fight until any new starter has no money left and is bankrupt:

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/04/one-big-reason-we-lack-internet-competition-starting-an-isp-is-really-hard/

 

Ouch. They may have died, but their story will live on as a burning fire to rage against the ISPs in the hearts of all who see it. Competition should have been here years ago if this story is true.

 

We deserve better. What they are doing seems like too little too late for what we've paid them. If we had their accounting sheets through time it would be damning I bet. Sitting on profits or not reinvesting them. Such a waste of resource.

[patrickjp93]

BS, they have no competition because their lawyers fight until any new starter has no money left and is bankrupt:

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/04/one-big-reason-we-lack-internet-competition-starting-an-isp-is-really-hard/

Claiming the lawsuits are frivolous and proving them frivolous are very different tasks. Furthermore, 3 of lawsuits ended in favor of the incumbent. 4 of them dissolved because Falcon ran out of money paying off 3. 

 

2 of those lawsuits were corporate espionage if I remember correctly.

 

Also, most judges can see a frivolous lawsuit coming miles away and will toss it right out the window because they'd rather deal with actual criminal cases and life-death situations.

[Trik'Stari]

And so, the continuing sell out of america continues unabated, and unnoticed by the masses.

 

I really wish the FCC would grow some balls and make these giant ISP's sell off at least 49% of their holdings. They've gotten so large it's almost impossible for them to not be violating some kind of monopoly or anti-trust law.

[Techhog]

Claiming the lawsuits are frivolous and proving them frivolous are very different tasks. Furthermore, 3 of lawsuits ended in favor of the incumbent. 4 of them dissolved because Falcon ran out of money paying off 3. 

 

2 of those lawsuits were corporate espionage if I remember correctly.

 

Also, most judges can see a frivolous lawsuit coming miles away and will toss it right out the window because they'd rather deal with actual criminal cases and life-death situations.

You know, assuming that they didn't receive a mysterious check...

[patrickjp93]

You know, assuming that they didn't receive a mysterious check...

Judges don't live high on the hog, so I'm going to discount that.

[Th3 Mans1ay3r]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Techhog]

Judges don't live high on the hog, so I'm going to discount that.

Everyone has a price.

[SpaceCore]

You say this in a thread about Netflix, when Optimum is like the only one who took Netflix's free caching system offer and even uses it as a selling point. That just seems weird to me.

I meant it as in: thats how much I want Google speeds.

 

I've heard an argument for not investing in a better network is "it's not so bad atm, so why upgrade?"

I get about 50mbs down & 50mbs up (officially) and honestly, it isn't so bad. but I want to go fast

[Techhog]

I meant it as in: thats how much I want Google speeds.

 

I've heard an argument for not investing in a better network is "it's not so bad atm, so why upgrade?"

I get about 50mbs down & 50mbs up (officially) and honestly, it isn't so bad. but I want to go fast

Unfortunately, the reason we'll never have Google Fiber is the same reason we can't have fiber at all: it's just too costly and time-consuming for any company to want to do it here. Personally, I think Optimum should drop the base 15/5 package to $30 and double speeds on all of the Ultra download speeds and make upload speeds half of the download (50/25 to 100/50, 75/25 to 150/75, 101/35 to 202/ 101). That would be pretty amazing.

[HalGameGuru]

The thing is fiber really isnt that expensive, not compared to the copper systems we are moving away from. Compensating for inflation, subsidies, and profit margins infrastructure has never been cheaper. A single fiber line can replace dozens, if not hundreds, of copper lines, and thats not just cheaper on install, in addition to the materials, thats way cheaper on maintenance over time. AT&T is LOVING pushing people from landline and DSL to U-Verse, charge more, costs less, the extra speed just promotes more switchover.

 

We don't have a free market, from the bell Co.s, AT&T, Cable Co.s, etc. they all have used the state to prevent market entry. Co-Ops and municipal ISP provision is an, as yet, unsquashed avenue people can take, but they will continue fighting those as well. A free market revolves around voluntary interaction of all members, providers and consumers. It also has no barriers to entry to the market, and no protections from bad decisions. Cell providers offering home internet with a hotspot, Google and Verizon pushing fiber, and crowd sourced alternatives are finally forcing some unequal competition, which is already having benefits for the consumers. If the market was open for big name competition at all levels, from ISP, to backbone, to content creator and host, you would see access, price, and quality improve dramatically. McDonald's and Burger King compete, they can't get rid of each other, Comcast and Time Warner never competed, AT&T never had any real competition, most other DSL providers USED AT&T's INFRASTRUCTURE to provide "their" DSL. The sorry state we live in today was set in motion over a hundred years ago with state sponsored monopolies, inane regulation, and pandering to lobbyists.

[Briggsy]

Man US laws are messed up. I'm glad where I live the companies that own the pipelines don't bother with providing internet service, and rent out the bandwidth to private ISP's instead. anyone with enough capital can start their own ISP here.

It seems there is a long line of US politicians that need someones boot lost in their arse. 

[zacRupnow]

[EChondo]

I scanned over this thread to see if anyone mentioned this, but I didn't see anything so...

 

Basically Verizon is lying, with Title II the FCC can intervene on such interconnect deals. I don't know why Verizon is claiming this, maybe it's to spread misinformation, maybe it's to break our hopes and spirits, I'm not sure. Or maybe they are too stupid to know what being a common carrier entails.

[Techhog]

I scanned over this thread to see if anyone mentioned this, but I didn't see anything so...

 

Basically Verizon is lying, with Title II the FCC can intervene on such interconnect deals. I don't know why Verizon is claiming this, maybe it's to spread misinformation, maybe it's to break our hopes and spirits, I'm not sure. Or maybe they are too stupid to know what being a common carrier entails.

They're getting desperate. That's it, really. They're likely also saying that they'll fight the legislation in court until it becomes too costly to stop them.

[Misanthrope]

I scanned over this thread to see if anyone mentioned this, but I didn't see anything so...

 

Basically Verizon is lying, with Title II the FCC can intervene on such interconnect deals. I don't know why Verizon is claiming this, maybe it's to spread misinformation, maybe it's to break our hopes and spirits, I'm not sure. Or maybe they are too stupid to know what being a common carrier entails.

 

No they aren't stupid, and yes they know the FCC can force them if they reclassify them. This is a good ol' fashion bluff: "Yeah even under reclassification we'll fight you in court so don't even think about that"

[Trik'Stari]

No they aren't stupid, and yes they know the FCC can force them if they reclassify them. This is a good ol' fashion bluff: "Yeah even under reclassification we'll fight you in court so don't even think about that"

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

"go ahead, reclassify us and see what happens, we'll bury you in litigation". Kind of a bold move when you consider that the best lawyers know who has more money, the US government, or some 2 bit ISP.

[Misanthrope]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

"go ahead, reclassify us and see what happens, we'll bury you in litigation". Kind of a bold move when you consider that the best lawyers know who has more money, the US government, or some 2 bit ISP.

Look at the time, Rant o'clock!

See, this should make americans (not you personally of course) question why is it that a private company, no matter how big, can successfully use the law to win vs the people who make the motherfucking laws to begin with? If that doesn't tell you that you should immediately and permanently demand that all political lobbying contributions are outlawed then you will never come back from this corporate dictatorship state you're living in. Sure it's just internet, but it's indicative of a massive problem lying at the very core of your political system.

[SteveGrabowski]

community internet? stop depending on ISPs in that case completly

 

Public internet is illegal in a lot of states, including mine (thank you teatard Texas legislature).

[Toddwjp]

with title two the ffc would be able to smack Verizon down hard. Also i recommend everybody watch this video on net neutrality. pretty much sums it up.

 

[SurvivorNVL]

Look at the time, Rant o'clock!

See, this should make americans (not you personally of course) question why is it that a private company, no matter how big, can successfully use the law to win vs the people who make the motherfucking laws to begin with? If that doesn't tell you that you should immediately and permanently demand that all political lobbying contributions are outlawed then you will never come back from this corporate dictatorship state you're living in. Sure it's just internet, but it's indicative of a massive problem lying at the very core of your political system.

In this front it is just internet, but we have similar issues with the oil industry as well.  I've talked to some people who believe that Big Oil is no longer a pollutant, and that smog is caused from TREE's, and that all fuel emissions now-a-days are 99% clean.  Corporations have ruled this country for a hundred years now.  I am proud to say that thanks to the internet a lot of this is more knowledgeable to people and I believe eventually consumers and people will have control over this, it's slow, but it'll happen.