Mark Zuckerberg Fires Back at Tim Cook

[algoat]

Back in September after the Fappening scandal, Tim Cook wrote a message that is still present on apple's privacy page.  On that page is a sentence that irked Mark Zuckerberg, "when an online service is free, you’re not the customer. You’re the product."

 

"A frustration I have is that a lot of people increasingly seem to equate an advertising business model with somehow being out of alignment with your customers" said Zuckerberg. "I think it’s the most ridiculous concept. What, you think because you’re paying Apple that you’re somehow in alignment with them? If you were in alignment with them, then they’d make their products a lot cheaper!"

 

Zuckerberg was referring to comments made by Cook in September when the Apple chief defended the company's approach to security after hundreds of nude and private images of celebrities were stolen from iCloud. Cook said at the time that he didn’t want the company to become a "treasure trove" of user data for the National Security Agency (NSA) and warned consumers to stay clear of companies offering "free" services.

 

"I think everyone has to ask, how do companies make their money?" said Cook. "Follow the money. And if they're making money mainly by collecting gobs of personal data, I think you have a right to be worried."

 

Although no companies were directly named, it was assumed that Cook was referring to both Google and Facebook. Google Chairman Eric Schmidt offered a similar rebuttal to Cook in October, saying his company had the best encryption standards in the industry and that the Apple chief hadn't been briefed "correctly" on his rivals.

 

Two different business philosophies here.  In one hand you make a product and sell it above cost to make some kind of profit.  In the other, you offer a free service and have to find some way of maintaining it and make a profit as well, in this case advertising space tailored to mined data from the users.  That's not to say that Apple doesn't mine data, they just use it differently.  Bottom line is nobody is forced to use Facebook or Google just like nobody is forced to buy Apple products.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/06/mark-zuckerberg-defends-free-facebook/

http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/5/7338685/mark-zuckerberg-defends-ad-model-against-Apple-Tim-Cook

 

 

[AlexStriz]

At least it was Tim Cook. I can't imagine what it would have been like if it was Steve...

[Mooshi]

Please. We already know you lot all hord data to a creepy degree, stop pretending you're any different, Zuckerberg.

[Jerakl]

At least it was Tim Cook. I can't imagine what Steve would have said.. 

You're right, you can't. Because I don't think anyone understood him. And he's dead. So no one ever will. Well maybe some scrub that believes they can talk to the dead will believe they understand him, but other then that. Eh.

[AlexStriz]

You're right, you can't. Because I don't think anyone understood him. And he's dead. So no one ever will. Well maybe some scrub that believes they can talk to the dead will believe they understand him, but other then that. Eh.

I know he's dead. It's just that he was a MUCH more aggressive person. If someone said something about/to him he'd retaliate pretty harshly. Jony Ive knew him pretty well. I read a book about him. Seemed to be very close to Steve. I think Steve told Jony he was sick before he did his wife. 

[Jerakl]

I know he's dead. It's just that he was a MUCH more aggressive person. If someone said something about/to him he'd retaliate pretty harshly. Jony Ive knew him pretty well. I read a book about him. Seemed to be very close to Steve. I think Steve told Jony he was sick before he did his wife. 

I've read the book 2 or 3 times I think.

[AlexStriz]

I've read the book 2 or 3 times I think.

Really? This one?

What did you think? I thought it was pretty outstanding. 

[Jerakl]

Really? This one?

What did you think? I thought it was pretty outstanding. 

Nope. Not that one, I thought you were referring to Steve Jobs book.

 

Edit: should probably read it. I find books like this interesting.

[EChondo]

Fight fight fight!
 
Kiss kiss kiss.
 

[That Norwegian Guy]

Zuckerberg feels the sting of butthurt.

 

The only reason I still have a shell of a Facebook account is so I can continue to observe the total collapse of the thing. Shit's glorious. Anyone who is still using it among people I know (30%) have only used it as a spam bucket for videos and random links for years. Nobody ever really uses Facebook anymore.

[ShadowCaptain]

I am on the fence on this, I see both point of views being completely valid

 

 

Really? This one?

 

What did you think? I thought it was pretty outstanding. 

 

I did not know that book existing, going to get it tonight to read, I love Jony Ive

[AlexStriz]

I am on the fence on this, I see both point of views being completely valid

 

 

 

I did not know that book existing, going to get it tonight to read, I love Jony Ive

I liked it. And yeah, Jony is quite the person. Really underrated IMO.

 

I like reading Apple stuff in general. Hate all you guys want (IIRC, you're an Apple fan, so you won't :lol: ... yeah, I lurk a lot), but I like them and their history is pretty amazing.

 

Tell me what you think

[ShadowCaptain]

I liked it. And yeah, Jony is quite the person. Really underrated IMO.

 

I like reading Apple stuff in general. Hate all you guys want (IIRC, you're an Apple fan, so you won't :lol: yeah, I lurk a lot), but I like them and their history is pretty amazing.

 

Tell me what you think

 

Yeah I am a fan of their work, currently not a Mac user though possibly will have my second computer as a Mac in the future, plenty of experiance with them though, and lots of iPods, iPhones and iPads, and I was an apple specialist for 2 years

 

I will give this a good read, read a few different authors version of the steve jobs bio, would love to learn more about Ive, he is pretty illusive, there are very few interviews with him, he normally is not in the spotlight, but he is definitely an amazing and talented guy

 

haha yeah you must lurk if you know that not a problem with me though haha

 

Will PM you when I have read it 

[Guest]

Charging for their products doesn't keep Apple from exploiting their customers with bullshit like non-removable batteries, soldered-on hard drives and all the restrictions iOS comes with.

And as for Zuckerberg's insincere or delusional irritation about someone implying that they don't have their user's best interests at heart...

[silberdrachi]

I am on the fence on this, I see both point of views being completely valid

 

Both are pretty valid, a lot of people have a weird opinion where companies they like are always "best friends". When it comes down to it they are a business and they need to make money off you to keep going. The question is what value are you getting out of the product, and does it justify what the company takes from you.

[ShadowCaptain]

Charging for their products doesn't keep Apple from exploiting their customers with bullshit like non-removable batteries, soldered-on hard drives and all the restrictions iOS comes with.

 

I would not call that "exploiting", also its completely beside the point

 

this is about data mining and privacy which Apple are extremely good at

[zanduh]

Charging for their products doesn't keep Apple from exploiting their customers with bullshit like non-removable batteries, soldered-on hard drives and all the restrictions iOS comes with.

 

 

ahahahha that's not exploiting

You choose to buy a product. You aren't forced into it. And it's not like they pulled a fast one and retroactively made the phones more restrictive after you bought them

 

apple haters find funny things to be indignant about

[Guest]

ahahahha that's not exploiting

You choose to buy a product. You aren't forced into it.

And people who buy those 'PC speedup' programs and other scam software also do it voluntarily. But it's still exploitation of people who don't know any better and - in Apple's case - also people who do know, but still value brand image over functionality.

Like Zuckerberg exploits the people who voluntarily use Facebook, not understanding how much information about themselves they're giving up.

[Guest]

this is about data mining and privacy which Apple are extremely good at

Apple's revenue doesn't come from advertising. Comparing their privacy practices to Facebook's is silly, so I compared their attitudes towards customers and those are really quite similar.

[ShadowCaptain]

Apple's revenue doesn't come from advertising. Comparing their privacy practices to Facebook's is silly, so I compared their attitudes towards customers and those are really quite similar.

 

I disagree, Facebooks data mining and advertising as all behinds the scenes and cloack and dagger stuff

 

Apples products are right there on the shelf for you to see, you can see there is not a removable battery  etc etc etc, some of those negatives can conceivably argued as positives, and are completley subjective "negative" points

 

I would rather pay more for a product without advertising, than use a free one that is add supported... yes I use facebook, and yes I would pay for it  if it meant no adverts and click-bait articles and a decent privacy policy

[Guest]

I disagree, Facebooks data mining and advertising as all behinds the scenes and cloack and dagger stuff

It's not behind the scenes. It's under a big pile of legal jargon in the user agreement or terms of service or whatever it's called.

[ShadowCaptain]

It's not behind the scenes. It's under a big pile of legal jargon in the user agreement or terms of service or whatever it's called.

 

Yeah its there in like a 400 page agreement, but its not explicitly mentioned directly to the user

[RH00D]

Apple's revenue doesn't come from advertising. Comparing their privacy practices to Facebook's is silly, so I compared their attitudes towards customers and those are really quite similar.

So because you can't say anything bad about Apple in terms of privacy you're just going to change the discussion to a different subject?

 

I'm not even a fan of Apple's stuff but like it or not Apple is pretty much the best out of the major tech companies when it comes to respecting people's privacy. The very fact that they earn a minuscule amount revenue from advertising is not a mistake. If they wanted to go down that path they would, but obviously they feel privacy is more important than mining all of their customer's data.

 

The things you mentioned about Apple like non-removable batteries, soldered on SSDs, etc. Apple's target audience is not people who want to tune their computer and change out parts, its the people who just want to use them for their intended purpose and be done with it. They also make those as design decisions so they can achieve a slim aesthetic form-factor.

[zanduh]

And people who buy those 'PC speedup' programs and other scam software also do it voluntarily. But it's still exploitation of people who don't know any better and - in Apple's case - also people who do know, but still value brand image over functionality.

Like Zuckerberg exploits the people who voluntarily use Facebook, not understanding how much information about themselves they're giving up.

 

... you're comparing falsely advertised programs to perfectly solid devices that don't value the same things you value? And yes, a customer is allowed to value the brand name and image that comes with certain products. They could value iphones because they really like apples for all it matters. That's their decision and you acting pretentious as if you're the informed individual among the masses doesn't change a thing.  

[Guest]

So because you can't say anything bad about Apple in terms of privacy you're just going to change the discussion to a different subject?

My point was that - contrary to what Cook implies - just because a company charges you for something doesn't mean they're not also trying to take advantage of you and Apple's own products are a good example of that.

 

 

Apple's target audience is not people who want to tune their computer and change out parts, its the people who just want to use them for their intended purpose and be done with it. They also make those as design decisions so they can achieve a slim aesthetic form-factor.

Plenty of business class notebooks are slim while having easily swappable batteries. And having the flash storage on a PCI M.2 SSD instead of the main board of laptops would not make them any thicker.