VESA Brings DisplayPort Through USB Type-C

[Agons]

100watts thought that small of a cable plus everything else... its going to burst into flames....

[StingBull]

And you thought they were fools when they said Universal.

[patrickjp93]

This is what we need. A universal port that is standardized and in everything, that can handle everything. Power (100w+ of electricity), Video (i.e. DisplayPort which covers audio), Data (i.e. files), just everything.

Like USB 2.0 is now, but better than USB 2.0.

Thunderbolt 3.0 anyone(launches with Skylake)? 40Gbps bandwidth, 100w of power, already works on the displayport standard, and isn't as flimsy as USB C.

Well I am reading the Anandtech article and it says DP++ is not supported, so the cable you linked would not work. It needs to be an active cable and from my experience (which is very very limited) those cables can degrade quality significantly.

Maybe I was just unlucky and had bad adapters, but I did a blind test with my mom and she could clearly see that the VGA port had far better quality than the DP to HDMI adapter I was using for our TV (the laptop I used only had VGA and DP, and I wanted a single cable for video and sound).

Unless there are active cables which has lossless conversion (again, I have very limited experience with active DP cables so they might exist) then I think this is a step backwards from the 11-pin USB 2.0 port with MHL (at least in the video out department, everything else regarding 3.1 type-C is far superior).

I wish DisplayPort was on every monitor/TV. If it were we wouldn't have this issue.

Oxidized hdmi connector on the TV? That happens when they aren't used for long periods. Plug and unplug like 12 times, blow out the cord and plug, and then try again.

[Vitalius]

Thunderbolt 3.0 anyone(launches with Skylake)? 40Gbps bandwidth, 100w of power, already works on the displayport standard, and isn't as flimsy as USB C.

We haven't even used USB C yet. How do you know it's flimsy? 

The problem with Thunderbolt is that it's earlier versions aren't nearly as adopted, so getting this one adopted when it's basically equal to USB C (unless I'm missing something or mistaken, the 18Gbps vs 40Gbps won't be noticed by 95% of consumers) should be harder.

Then again, it is a perfect opportunity for a transition from USB to Thunderbolt. However, that means that some, but not all will do so either way, meaning there will be a split or consolidation. Split meaning some devices will have Thunderbolt while some have USB C (the bad outcome), and consolidation meaning everything has both causing device's prices to rise a bit (a "not as bad" outcome, but still bad). 

I'd prefer it be heavily skewed to one or another, and I feel USB is so entrenched that it has the major advantage, even if it has a lower bandwidth (IIRC).

[dalekphalm]

Thunderbolt 3.0 anyone(launches with Skylake)? 40Gbps bandwidth, 100w of power, already works on the displayport standard, and isn't as flimsy as USB C.

As much as Thunderbolt is faster on a technical level, USB is just so pervasive that it is unlikely that Thunderbolt will take over. Thunderbolt has been "superior" since it was released, back in what, Q1 2011? It has hardly gained any traction at all since then, and it's been almost 4 years.

 

Also, how can you comment on the USB C standard being flimsy? It isn't even released yet, and all we've seen are artist renditions and a couple physical demo units. There've been no testing or durability analysis that I've seen.

[Builder]

As much as Thunderbolt is faster on a technical level, USB is just so pervasive that it is unlikely that Thunderbolt will take over. Thunderbolt has been "superior" since it was released, back in what, Q1 2011? It has hardly gained any traction at all since then, and it's been almost 4 years.

 

Also, how can you comment on the USB C standard being flimsy? It isn't even released yet, and all we've seen are artist renditions and a couple physical demo units. There've been no testing or durability analysis that I've seen.

No, the current USB standard is pervasive. We have no idea how popular 3.1 type C will be if it gets any traction at all. Thunderbolt is overwhelmingly popular in professional circles these days anyways.

 

He's just wagering it will be flimsy because it's another cheap pot metal connector rolled extremely thin with no retention mechanism other than friction. Literally the entire outer surface of the damn thing is smooth. Given what a disaster Micro USB has been I wouldn't be surprised at all if this sucked just as bad.

[GoodBytes]

No, the current USB standard is pervasive. We have no idea how popular 3.1 type C will be if it gets any traction at all. Thunderbolt is overwhelmingly popular in professional circles these days anyways.

 

He's just wagering it will be flimsy because it's another cheap pot metal connector rolled extremely thin with no retention mechanism other than friction. Literally the entire outer surface of the damn thing is smooth. Given what a disaster Micro USB has been I wouldn't be surprised at all if this sucked just as bad.

To me it's Beta Max vs VHS situation:

[LAwLz]

Thunderbolt is overwhelmingly popular in professional circles these days anyways.

[Citation needed]

[beebskadoo]

I can't wait to see this new USB connector implemented on devices. One cable to rule them all!!!

I think this implementation is better than thunderbolt.

Thunderbolt 3.0 anyone(launches with Skylake)? 40Gbps bandwidth, 100w of power, already works on the displayport standard, and isn't as flimsy as USB C.

Still difficult to implement, USB is a standard that doesn't require special hardware configurations to use. This USB will be implemented in Computers, phones and tablets. Better transfer speeds than last generation at a fraction of the price of Thunderbolt. The industry is swayed by implementations on a grand scale, Thunderbolt is far from widely implemented. It's expensive, niche, and there aren't any accessories for the damn thing.

Also what makes you think that it's going to be flimsy?...the damn thing isn't even out yet.

Thunderbolt is a cool idea but it's dead out of the water as far as I'm concerned.

[Builder]

[Citation needed]

What kind?

 

Still difficult to implement, USB is a standard that doesn't require special hardware configurations to use. This USB will be implemented in Computers, phones and tablets. Better transfer speeds than last generation at a fraction of the price of Thunderbolt. The industry is swayed by implementations on a grand scale, Thunderbolt is far from widely implemented. It's expensive, niche, and there aren't any accessories for the damn thing.

There are plenty of accessories for it...we don't know what USB 3.1 pricing will be like, and currently type C is even less widely implemented than Thunderbolt, which is to say it's not implemented, anywhere.

[beebskadoo]

To me it's Beta Max vs VHS situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddYZITaxlTQ

Lol you realize that most people on here won't get that refference

 

 

Thunderbolt is niche, not widely supported, it's not a standard, and it's not suited for implementation across all platforms.

 

USB C will be the next USB standard, will be widely adopted across all platforms and won't cost a lot. WIN

[GoodBytes]

Lol you realize that most people on here won't get that refference

True. But the video explains it, and why it lost. The point is that despite BetaMax being better than VHS, with even superior picture quality, it lost.

[TheProfosist]

I was really impressed by this personally and am going to read that anandtech article when I have more time.

[LAwLz]

What kind?

Well from what I've seen Thunderbolt isn't "overwhelmingly popular in professional circles".

That's what I am asking for a source for. "Professional circles" is a ridiculously broad term so I want some clarification.

[Builder]

Well from what I've seen Thunderbolt isn't "overwhelmingly popular in professional circles".

That's what I am asking for a source for. "Professional circles" is a ridiculously broad term so I want some clarification.

No, I was genuinely asking for a source. I couldn't find adoption rates in a study or anything, (yet) so the best I can give you is anecdotal evidence which is worth next to nothing.

 

Although I am assuming "what I've seen" is anecdotal evidence too. By professional circles I meant video editors and other computing professionals who need high speed interlinks.

[patrickjp93]

We haven't even used USB C yet. How do you know it's flimsy?

The problem with Thunderbolt is that it's earlier versions aren't nearly as adopted, so getting this one adopted when it's basically equal to USB C (unless I'm missing something or mistaken, the 18Gbps vs 40Gbps won't be noticed by 95% of consumers) should be harder.

Then again, it is a perfect opportunity for a transition from USB to Thunderbolt. However, that means that some, but not all will do so either way, meaning there will be a split or consolidation. Split meaning some devices will have Thunderbolt while some have USB C (the bad outcome), and consolidation meaning everything has both causing device's prices to rise a bit (a "not as bad" outcome, but still bad).

I'd prefer it be heavily skewed to one or another, and I feel USB is so entrenched that it has the major advantage, even if it has a lower bandwidth (IIRC).

4x the bandwidth of USB C, and can run multiple asynchronous streams for ultra quick I/O over the PCIe protocol. Also, USB C is no larger than MicroUSB. It's flimsy.

As much as Thunderbolt is faster on a technical level, USB is just so pervasive that it is unlikely that Thunderbolt will take over. Thunderbolt has been "superior" since it was released, back in what, Q1 2011? It has hardly gained any traction at all since then, and it's been almost 4 years.

Also, how can you comment on the USB C standard being flimsy? It isn't even released yet, and all we've seen are artist renditions and a couple physical demo units. There've been no testing or durability analysis that I've seen.

You don't need durability testing. It's MicroUSB but curved on both sides.

Still difficult to implement, USB is a standard that doesn't require special hardware configurations to use. This USB will be implemented in Computers, phones and tablets. Better transfer speeds than last generation at a fraction of the price of Thunderbolt. The industry is swayed by implementations on a grand scale, Thunderbolt is far from widely implemented. It's expensive, niche, and there aren't any accessories for the damn thing.

Also what makes you think that it's going to be flimsy?...the damn thing isn't even out yet.


Thunderbolt is a cool idea but it's dead out of the water as far as I'm concerned.

There are a ton of accessories for Thunerbolt, the most useful being a 4x USB bay to handle all your peripherals without taking up port real estate on the back of your computer and making it a nest/squid.

It's MicroUSB but curved on both sides

You'd rather have 10 USB ports on the motherboard IO plate instead of 2 thunderbolt ports? The royalties for USB are just as high as thunderbolt. SATA and USB cost more than the damn materials that go into any motherboard.

[beebskadoo]

4x the bandwidth of USB C, and can run multiple asynchronous streams for ultra quick I/O over the PCIe protocol. Also, USB C is no larger than MicroUSB. It's flimsy.

Yet it's still not widely accepted or implemented.

USB C is meant to be across platforms, Laptops, desktops, mobile, tablets, consumer, professional.

And what does size have anything to do with the reliability of a connector? You have no clue about the reliability of this connector.

There are a ton of accessories for Thunerbolt, the most useful being a 4x USB bay to handle all your peripherals without taking up port real estate on the back of your computer and making it a nest/squid.

It's MicroUSB but curved on both sides

You'd rather have 10 USB ports on the motherboard IO plate instead of 2 thunderbolt ports? The royalties for USB are just as high as thunderbolt. SATA and USB cost more than the damn materials that go into any motherboard.

Am I daft?...

there ya go, it speaks for itself.

[Fetzie]

Going to be really odd to see USB ports in the back of the graphics card

 

Could be a new way to recover a corrupted GPU BIOS.

4x the bandwidth of USB C, and can run multiple asynchronous streams for ultra quick I/O over the PCIe protocol. Also, USB C is no larger than MicroUSB. It's flimsy.

I don't know how many years I've been using (micro)USB for, but I have never had a cable break on me.

[patrickjp93]

Yet it's still not widely accepted or implemented.

USB C is meant to be across platforms, Laptops, desktops, mobile, tablets, consumer, professional.

And what does size have anything to do with the reliability of a connector? You have no clue about the reliability of this connector.

I have every clue. Look at how many people bust not only the cable, but the port on microUSB vs. just breaking say, a lightning cable. Having a convex port design makes it prone to being broken, and if you break the port, you're screwed! It's a stupid design prone to failure like its predecessors. End of story.

Also, less total bulk means less total enforcing material.

It's not widely implemented because it was late as far as the standards go. It's still superior and more versatile than any of the connector standards. It can run ethernet, DP, USB, FireWire, SAS, and more, and it's smaller than an ethernet port!

Am I daft?

there ya go, it speaks for itself.

You have NAS cages, USB bays, multi-channel ethernet bays, external GPU cages, optical drives(if you want), audio equipment, and monitors that can all run on thunderbolt.

[Valentyn]

 

I think this might be it for Thunderbolt. It costs more and support less than USB 3.1 type-C. It will be interesting to see how Apple reacts to this as well. They would benefit from changing too.

 

I certainly hope they adopt it as well, although with TB3 already finalised by Intel; I can see them going for that as well. TB 3 will be much better for high performance data transfers, and certainly has a lot of other uses.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181099-next-gen-thunderbolt-details-40gbps-pcie-3-0-hdmi-2-0-and-100w-power-delivery-for-single-cable-pcs

I would want Apple to bump up the amount of USB ports with 3.1 C though, as it's smaller and just much better.

 

In both cases new connector, and port is required. It'll certainly be intreating to see new devices appear for both.

I wonder if USB 3.1 C or C2 will allowing device aggregation and daisy-chanining along with RAID. At the moment you can daisy chain multiple HDD/SSD enclosures and RAID them with TB.

[Vitalius]

You don't need durability testing. It's MicroUSB but curved on both sides. What are we, stupid?

And what does size have anything to do with the reliability of a connector? You have no clue about the reliability of this connector.

This^

The metal decides a lot. If it's thick, it won't break off easily or bend. If the connector is just the right size, friction is all you need (even if a locking mechanism is preferred). 

That, plus it being symmetrical means it's easier to handle when inserting/removing. That means less potential to be broken.

[Builder]

You have NAS cages, USB bays, multi-channel ethernet bays, external GPU cages, optical drives(if you want), audio equipment, and monitors that can all run on thunderbolt.

 

Yes, you're daft. 

I hate that photo. It makes too many assumptions about the user.

[patrickjp93]

I certainly hope they adopt it as well, although with TB3 already finalised by Intel; I can see them going for that as well. TB 3 will be much better for high performance data transfers, and certainly has a lot of other uses.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181099-next-gen-thunderbolt-details-40gbps-pcie-3-0-hdmi-2-0-and-100w-power-delivery-for-single-cable-pcs

I would want Apple to bump up the amount of USB ports with 3.1 C though, as it's smaller and just much better.

In both cases new connector, and port is required. It'll certainly be intreating to see new devices appear for both.

The royalties on it are 1.5x more expensive than USB 3.0. It's going to force motherboard prices with 6 or more connectors up 10% at least.

This^

The metal decides a lot. If it's thick, it won't break off easily or bend. If the connector is just the right size, friction is all you need (even if a locking mechanism is preferred).

That, plus it being symmetrical means it's easier to handle when inserting/removing. That means less potential to be broken.

Tug it horizontally like you know will eventually happen and look at the results. USB 3.1C is going to be a disaster unless the port and plug are primarily steel, and that's not going to happen.

[beebskadoo]

You have NAS cages, USB bays, multi-channel ethernet bays, external GPU cages, optical drives(if you want), audio equipment, and monitors that can all run on thunderbolt.

 

Yes, you're daft. 

Could you please stop calling people names? 

[Valentyn]

Am I daft?

 

 

there ya go, it speaks for itself.

 

 

Hmm, yes, I can see that mess right now...yes....

 

5 External HDD enclosures, DVD, TB Dock, 7 port USB dock, external audio interface...such a mess yes....

 

 

 

My Old mac pro had just as much of a mess, any system can. You cable tidy, and you shelve things.

 

Being able to a have single TB port, sand daisy-chain multiple HDD/SSD enclosures, and even RAID them together is rather nice.