VESA Brings DisplayPort Through USB Type-C

[patrickjp93]

PCIe allows for RDMA. USB, Ethernet, Sata, don't have access to remapping memory IO. PCIe bus level devices do.

Here is a worst case scenario:

You lose your laptop which has TB. You work for a company that works with government contracts and deals with research.

I find the laptop, connect to the TB port (PCIe bus) and can snoop pre-boot code/ initialization firmware, key handshakes etc.

I then can access loaded memory due to RDMA.

It basically is a hardware version of heartbleed (if abused).

Doesn't that only work if the devices have been approved in a boot sequence before? Any time you switch SATA ports or change the slot on a video card, it has to be re-approved by the CPU and motherboard. You can't snoop a TB laptop unless you can decrypt it AND log onto it.

[ionbasa]

Doesn't that only work if the devices have been approved in a boot sequence before? Any time you switch SATA ports or change the slot on a video card, it has to be re-approved by the CPU and motherboard. You can't snoop a TB laptop unless you can decrypt it AND log onto it.

Nope, has nothing to do with the boot sequence. It has to do with the fact that PCIe has direct CPU interrupts and that PCIe allows for memory values to be read directly from the systems memory bus/ Hence "direct memory access".

 

The only way to stop this is by using IOMMU or VT-d, which containerizes memory I/O. 

 

Look up PCIe DMA attack. 

 

The reason DMA attacks work is because PCIe is a system bus which allows access direct access to system memory. The CPU merely sees a PCIe device attached to the bus, which can be spoofed as a raid card, Infiniband controller, or anything inbetween.

 

This is something that most OSs have no way to protect against by default, even Windows OSs are affected: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2516445 

 

And yes, you can snoop a TB laptop:

 

Do some research, its an advanced topic that many people fail to grasp how system busses work in PCs.

[Yummychickenblue]

This is what we need. A universal port that is standardized and in everything, that can handle everything. Power (100w+ of electricity), Video (i.e. DisplayPort which covers audio), Data (i.e. files), just everything.

Like USB 2.0 is now, but better than USB 2.0. 

Doesn't Thunderbolt do all of that except for maybe 100 watts of electricity?

[qwertywarrior]

there is also USB3  through display port

[Lavachyste]

yes

[LAwLz]

Doesn't Thunderbolt do all of that except for maybe 100 watts of electricity?

It does, but I am pretty sure this USB will be more widely adopted.

Right now Thunderbolt is suffering from a lack of peripherals using it. Very few computers has thunderbolt so peripheral manufacturers don't feel like spending the money making anything for it. Since there aren't that many things using it motherboard manufacturers don't feel like supporting it. The exception are products clearly marketed at Mac users, which aren't that many (products or users).

 

I don't think this USB connector will have the same issue. A lot of phone manufacturers will agree to using it solely because of the reversible connector. So already we got a ton of devices using it. On top of that, you can easily make a cable with a Type-C connector in one end, and type A in another. USB type A is already everything. With Thunderbolt both things need to support it. With this USB only one device needs to support it to at least function.

That's why I think this will be successful while Thunderbolt failed.

[The Benjamins]

there is also USB3  through display port

Display port 1.3 will have 100w of power, USB 3.1

[patrickjp93]

It's such a shame thunderbolt gets nowhere. It's every bit as good and in fact better than USB for everything except its security issues. I still very much wish we could drop SATA altogether and just unify storage to the PCIe bus. The royalties on SATA are stupid high, the standard doesn't change fast enough for us to see SSD innovation, and PCIe has already proven to be a lightning fast interconnect. You could have microPCI connectors that use 1 lane for HDDs, 2 lanes for normal SSDs, and 4 for the speed demons.

[LAwLz]

It's such a shame thunderbolt gets nowhere. It's every bit as good and in fact better than USB for everything except its security issues. I still very much wish we could drop SATA altogether and just unify storage to the PCIe bus. The royalties on SATA are stupid high, the standard doesn't change fast enough for us to see SSD innovation, and PCIe has already proven to be a lightning fast interconnect. You could have microPCI connectors that use 1 lane for HDDs, 2 lanes for normal SSDs, and 4 for the speed demons.

How is Thunderbolt better than USB 3.1 with Type-C connector?

[GoodBytes]

Just a note. The 100W is of course going to be for desktop only.

Imagine carrying a 190W PSU for your laptop or ~110W power brick with your phone.

(100W for 1 USB port, and the rest for the system).

[Valentyn]

How is Thunderbolt better than USB 3.1 with Type-C connector?

 

Surely it being faster, allowing PCIe interconnect, IP over the cable, daisy-chaining multiple different devices, RAID ability of such HDD/SSD, external PCIe card expansions, and it's expandable to other adapters via a simple dongle if needed makes it better. It also already has the DisplayPort built in along with HMDI ( HDCP ). With TB 3 the bandwidth doubles, adopts PCIe 3, and adds 100W power over the cable as well, has HDMI 2.0, USB 3, support, and lowers power usage by 50%.

 

 

It's a decent connector, but it's need for expensive cables, connections, and the expensive controller chips. 

[The Benjamins]

Just a note. The 100W is of course going to be for desktop only.Imagine carrying a 190W PSU for your laptop or ~110W power brick with your phone.(100W for 1 USB port, and the rest for the system).

that's not how it works, the plugs are rated for 100 watts it not required to output 100 watts. For laptops, you can charge it from you monitor or some thing but on a besktop power the monitor from the desktop.

[GoodBytes]

that's not how it works, the plugs are rated for 100 watts it not required to output 100 watts. For laptops, you can charge it from you monitor or some thing but on a besktop power the monitor from the desktop.

Yes Yes.

I meant, don't expect to pull 100W from all plugs, at least on a mobile device.

[patrickjp93]

How is Thunderbolt better than USB 3.1 with Type-C connector?

4x the bandwidth, and the ability to host all kinds of connection streams (up to 6 asynchronous). USB doesn't support SAS or SATA without active cables/adaptors, whereas TB does. Daisy chaining of monitors and NAS arrays or external computation clusters is also a very nice feature. There's also the fact the ceiling on external SSD speeds is much higher than with USB 3.1 which I doubt is going to fix the 3.0 large file problem vs. SATA.

[spwath]

This is what we need. A universal port that is standardized and in everything, that can handle everything. Power (100w+ of electricity), Video (i.e. DisplayPort which covers audio), Data (i.e. files), just everything.

Like USB 2.0 is now, but better than USB 2.0.

Apple did that for their cinima displays, a dvi/USB/monitor power hybrid connector

[GoodBytes]

Apple did that for their cinima displays, a dvi/USB/monitor power hybrid connector

Yes, but this was exclusive to Apple. And required an external box where you need to connect USB, DVI, and power. So in other words all it does is regroup the 3 cables into 1. Where that 1 cable is propitiatory connector. So if that cable breaks, you are screwed. You have to pay a premium price from Apple, if they choose to continue to make it, let alone offer to just buy the connector.